| Author | Message | ||
     Buellkowski |
This isn't the thread for this, folks...  | ||
| Buellkowski |
Could we please try to keep our little minds focused and refrain from war/religion in this thread? Don't make me ping the Admin...  It's the manner of death that captivates us, not necessarily the numbers. Why do you think we hear so much more about plane crashes than highway deaths? A jump in motorcycle fatalities should be of concern to ALL responsible motorcyclists. We are exposed, physically and fiscally, to the motoring world around us and their lawyers/insurers. If we keep behaving like children and dying like flies on our bikes, how much longer do you think we'll be able to afford to ride? Wake the hell up! | ||
| Henrik |
Sheesh - With all this bickering one could think we were in the deep of winter ... time to chill everyone. As others have mentioned, we already have two topics for exactly this kind of discussion. It would be appropriate to take this conversation there. Thank you for your consideration Henrik | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
As for where this thread has gone, it is interesting and compelling. As for the original document that started all of this, I must agree that the 12% increase in motorcycle deaths is concerning. Does this indicate increase by numbers alone, or are they rate of deaths? Hate to see increase at all, but I feel certain there has been a rise in the #'s of riders and miles traveled.( My opinion ). So what is the root cause? Experience? More SUV related? More brazin riders? What about animal related, deer and such? They seem to be even more popular than ever on highways these days.I think this should be of concern here ( in this thread, although I stand by my previous remarks, and concerns) | ||
| Blake |
Oh, the heck with it, I am moving all the islam is evil discussion to the "War..." thread. Still no answers to my questions. Why doesn't the media aggressively cover our national highway and murder death tolls? What about the death toll of alcohol and drug abuse? | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Wish I knew....but they sure keep us up to date on all our news worthy celebrity legal issues.. Thanks be to ....God? Sorry, got off track again | ||
| Kevyn |
Just a guess but the 'media' reporters enjoy using alcohol, legal and illegal drugs, tobacco and automobiles but not motorcycles firearms and they certainly don't engage in martial conflict? Reporting about alcohol and drug abuse? The 'crack cocaine' epidemic is out of control, there's an emerging heroin epidemic in the white suburbs and you can buy alcohol in any flavor 24 hours a day just about anywhere in the U.S. Just don't have a good answer...maybe the media reporters use a lot of alcohol and drugs and it would be like an admission of guilt? It's easier to 'just report the news' than to catalyze change? | ||
| Kevyn |
As long as were travelling down this path, one thing that really bugs the heck out of me is the fact that the illegal drugs consumed in the U.S. are more and more being grown, refined, transported and distributed by terrorist syndicates; Colombian communists(taking over from the traditional Cartels) Asian communists and now it's widely reported that the Taliban is heavily involved in the opium trade in Afghanistan and that the Taliban and Al Queda are 'taxing' the movement of narcotics across the border regions in Pakistan and Afghanistan to support their war against the U.S. Why isn't the Washington Post giving that story better position? | ||
| Jasonblue |
These threads are like rivers after a heavy down pour, they go where they go. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Regarding Blake's question, I'd say that the LOCAL media probably does a good job of reporting traffic deaths, murders, gang hits, etc. I'll bet everyone's local paper has such stories on page two or three and everyone's local TV news reports has one story a night like these. The issue of traffic fatalities only hits the national spotlight when a certain magnitude of interstate horror is reached (school bus crashes, plane crashes, Staten Island ferry crashes), or in this thread's case, when the annual traffic statistics are released. Combat deaths may be small in comparison, but their newsworthiness reaches that trans-national horror the media outlets groove on. Reporting deaths due to drugs or AIDS isn't popular because these are our dirty problems better swept under the rug. Sadly, if we don't discuss it, it's almost like it isn't happening. | ||
| Blake |
Yep. Remember when a some people died when their Firestone tires blew out? The media was on that for weeks on end. | ||
| Gravedigger |
Blake, Why doesn't the media aggressively cover our national highway and murder death tolls? What about the death toll of alcohol and drug abuse? I agree with you on this matter, BUT argue the merits of these ideas on thier own (THEY ARE TRULEY WORTHY OF THAT), don't try to use them to meet a different religious/poilitical agenda.} The old testament is very historical in nature. When your enemy tries to kill your brother, yes, it is taught in the bible's old testament that it is acceptable to kill that enemy; that is what we call self defense." The exodus quote was not a self defense quote. The person was not attacking Moses. Moses attacked the Egyptian. Did you actually read the proverb? }Your logic is false and hateful. You attempt to defend an evil cult by attacking Judaism and Christianity. I was not making attacks on christianity. I was simply pointing out that the words in both the Koran and the Bible can be interpreted by many different people in very different manners. You Were the one that attacked another religious group for words that were in thier book of scripture. I mearly pointed out the fact that there are parts of both religious texts that don't paint a promising picture if held at word value. This is what you are doing with the words of Koran, but do not hold the Bible to the same standard. Your logic is very flawed on this one. Whats fair for one is fair for the other. Are you familiar with the teaching of Jesus Christ? Apparently not. Yes I am quite familiar with the teachings of Jesus Christ. I stated previously that I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I will agree with your premise that the teachings of Jesus Christ do not include these same concepts. There are many contridictions in Bible Scripture and Old Testement is also a very large part of the christian philosophy. In many instances God is quoted about acceptable reasons for murder. p.s. The condescending attitude in which you approach any conversation or argument speaks more about your overall intelligence level than you may be actually willing to accept. Keep that closed mind, It will get you far in life. Bruce, }ONE reference is that the Jewish religion is just like the Muslim "faith". No, I stated that there are comparable ideas in each of thier texts Koran and Bible). I did not speak of the Jewish faith though they do share the same portion of scripture in which we speak. I Spoke of Christians. Did I miss something here? When did Christians stop teaching the Old Testement? }please cite the references in the Bible that admonish Jews to slay anyone who is not Jewish. Did you actually read my previous post? }Let us follow other gods"--gods whom you have not previously known--"and let us serve them.".....As for that prophet or dreamer, he must be executed because he encouraged rebellion against the Lord your God" I think that refers to someone who teaches another faith. How about you?? }There are over 58 references in the Koran to the use of Jihad And there are 18 references of when it is acceptable to murder in the Bible( I will state that I noticed two or three that I personally thought were a little far fetched). I guess we are truley more moderate on this subject. point well made, I guess.  }Forgetting historical references, you can certainly find hundreds of incidents each year whereupon Muslims "citing the Koran" Forgetting historical references? Huh? Are you kidding me? Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it. From a person with such a reactionary view of the world, that statement really don't fit your personality nor the context of your argument. Might want to reread the old college logic text on that one. }If you think Moses is bin Laden, you have some real issues.) You continually try to put words in peoples mouths. At no point did I compare Moses to Bin Laden. You once again are trying to compare a muslim with a muslim extremist. They are quite different groups. Just as Christians and Christian extremists are. Oh, and I am not part of the problem! That is just liberal pantywaste thinking, confusing the real source of the ills. Go back to 911, I wasn't on the plane, dipshit! No that is mainstream America's point of view. A point of view, might I add, that you are very out of touch with. p.s. You really tire me with your closed mind attitude toward the world. Your reckless illogical thought process quite seriously concerns me. Why don't you go find a christian extremist bulliten board so you will have more than one other person that actually agrees with your unlogical, irrational, reactionary thought process. I'll say a little prayer for you when I hear the news that you were the member of a religious cults mass suicide. (Message edited by gravedigger on August 14, 2004) | ||
| Gravedigger |
Now where were we, Oh ya, vehicle fatalities and thier relevence to the consumption of alcohol. Much better subject for this Bulliten board. Hmmmm, I am not prepared to make a comment on this subject at this point in time.  | ||
| Rocketman |
I believe that in the UK motorcyclists have cracked it. Well perhaps not cracked it but we have come a long way. It's common practice among bikers to adhere to the speed limits posted in villages. On the open road yes it's a different matter, but I find most bikers don't go balls out for very long. In any case it's not really possible unless you're riding on an empty motorway. Every other road in the UK at some point has settlements along them. Adhering to speed limits in these areas has earned motorcyclists a good reputation. Sensible riding, even when speeding, is recognized by most traffic cops. You'll only get busted on the open road, say on a Sunday, if the road is busy with other types of vehicles or you're riding like you're in a race. Otherwise, getting let off at 100mph or so isn't uncommon. Attitude on and off the bike goes a long way with the Constabulary. Of course, sometimes the roads are targeted for speeders, if there's been a spate of fatalities for instances, then you will get busted if you're speeding. Camera's are another matter all together. Gatso have invented a new form of camera that sits on gantries high above each lane. Camera's are spaced at six mile intervals. If you cover the six miles in less than the allowed time, you're ticket is spat out of a computer and sent through the post. Changing lanes won't help either, as lane recognition is part of the package. On trial now somewhere in the UK. Recently according to MCN, and I don't recall which County, the police had a crackdown on speeding bikers on one particular road. Apparently locals had complained to police about bikers speeding activities. 20 or so speeders where caught in a couple of hours. Police praised bikers later. Only one speeder was a biker. That's the village thing I was talking about. There's another consideration in matters two wheeled. When I started riding on the road in the seventies, the British bike culture was alive and kicking. Full leathers and fancy race kit was laughed at by nearly all unless a pensioner on a pre-war Norton International was the wearer. Brando style leather jacket with badged denim cut-off (no sleeves) worn over the top was the fashion of the day, along with jeans, cork lined pisspot helmet and goggles. White fisherman's socks turned out over a pair of long black boots, the boots probably the only bit of proper kit worn by bikers, and a white silk scarf, the height of fashion for all. Gloves. What gloves?Safety conscious reporting of the times were of a government pressing for dayglo belts as compulsory riding kit. The bikes were worse. The Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) presented the government with a Meriden built Triumph equipped with leg protectors, crash bars, and wait, a pop-up chest protector. Man, in those days we were scared. The industry of course is responsible for the turn around. We get away with nigh on 200bhp road bikes because the industry made them rider friendly, and just as importantly, if not more so, they changed the way we dress when we ride. Over 1000 deaths a year on British roads pales into insignificance when you compare to the US figure. We're more dense. What's going on over there? 24 million vehicles use the roads daily here. About 1 million bikes ridden are the yearly figure I believe. Our death tolls on motorcycles is only in the hundreds. I don't mean 'only' like it doesn't matter, but we must be doing something right when taking miles traveled on two wheels by how many riders. Still, our government doesn't crack down heavy on diesel spills from HGV's, nor mobile phone use whilst driving, or in general bad driving by car drivers, which there's a huge amount of. It's also a recognized fact in the UK that motorcyclist make better car drivers. Road awareness is everything over here. One driving test in a life time with no compulsory training for ever after is perhaps not the way to go. Cars kill bikers more than bikers kill themselves! Enjoy your weekend and do ride safe please. Rocket | ||
| Crusty |
If you really want to see motorcycle fatalities drop, urge your concerned, helpful anf friendly elected officials to outlaw cell phones and S.U.V.s. not that it will get you anywhere... | ||
| Bluey |
I like the smell of the flowers and the pretty little animals wandering about when I tear up the highways at 100+!  | ||
| Rek |
W/ all the advances in medical technology etc. these motorcycle fatalities and drug related deaths could very well be our only means of natural selection in the new millinuem (sp?) I say let all the weak and stupid people kill themselves anyway they see fit. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Problem with that Rek is that a lot of the alcohol & drug related accidents involve folks who werent using them. How many times do you read & hear about a drunk plowing into a car or bike & killing the other person? The damn drunk almost never gets hurt. The only time they do is when its a single vehicle accident. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
"millenium"...(maybe you should be careful on the road, Mr. natural could be waiting.)...  | ||
| Rek |
Our biggest hazards here in Eastern MT are SMV's and wildlife (no moose, thank God). And since all the roads are mostly flat and very straight you can usually see them several miles off. (read BORING) | ||
| Brucelee |
"No that is mainstream America's point of view. A point of view, might I add, that you are very out of touch with." ???????????????????????????// Man, you make no sense whatsoever. Can you actually ride a motorcycle with that half-assed brain of yours? | ||
| Blake |
Keith N., Please edit and move your apologetics for islam to the "War..." thread. Thank you. I agree with you on this matter, BUT argue the merits of these ideas on thier own (THEY ARE TRULEY WORTHY OF THAT), don't try to use them to meet a different religious/poilitical agenda. As far as I know, within the policy of this board, I am free to make whatever point I choose. I find extremely hypocritical the fact that the mass media choose to largely ignore the much more horrendous death tolls of 40,000+ per year highway deaths, 100,000+ per year drug/alcohol deaths and 15,000+ per year murders but choose to breathlessly report the death toll from Iraq. The American combat related death toll in Iraq for the first year was less than 500, less than 1/2% of deaths in America due to combined total of drug/alcohol abuse, highway accidents and murder, less than one half of one percent. Edit and move the apologetics for islam to the war thead. It does not belong here. | ||
| Blake |
And you and Bruce both need to remove the insults from your posts and cease the flaming. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well, I tried to get us back on topic! Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Good attempt Rocket. Much appreciated. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Rocket's brought up a good point; how many fatalities per mile traveled does that 40,000+ figure represent? We're a big country with lots of drivers. Maybe 40,000 per year is relatively low for 3 bazillion miles (give or take a bazillion) traveled? Wait, I see it now: 1.48 deaths per 100 million miles. How does that compare to the UK? (Message edited by buellkowski on August 15, 2004) | ||
| Blake |
Spin it any way you like, 40,000 dead is unacceptable. | ||
| Rocketman |
Are seat belts compulsory in the US? Rocket | ||
| Gravedigger |
Blake, With all due respect intended, You were the one that initially brought this subject to this thread. I on the other hand, asked you to place it in the appropriate thread on three seperate occasions. feel free to move my posts. Keith p.s. Bruce and I were not the only one that were flaming in this argument. Call it flaming or condescending remarks but admit you were just as big a part of that as we were.} | ||
| Cj_xb |
Are seat belts compulsory in the US? Rocket, it is in most states, here in Wisconsin they will ticket you for no seatbelts !! CJ  |
