| Author | Message | ||
     Fdl3 |
Wow, wow, wow...read this article! This article was posted on another forum. It outlines a Harley line that could have been: Link: HD Nova URL: http://www.riderreport.com/output.cfm?id=144217 Highlights: HD Nova, water-cooled, 60-degree Vee, 2-4-6 cyclinders, Carb or FI, under-seat radiator, 135hp in 1980. Man, too bad HD could not bring this project to fruition at the time. It sounds like it could easily be resurrected. Maybe it has been with the VRod engine? What if Erik could get the go-ahead to continue this engine project in a Buell application? Inquiring minds might want to know...  | ||
| M1combat |
That looks exactly like a Japanese bike... I have nothing against the Japanese, but HD really needs to stick to their guns and have their own HD style. | ||
| Jim_m |
If the Nova went ahead, I believe HD would have beat the VMax to the market. Too bad they didn't have the capital to do the Nova line at the same time as the Evo line... | ||
| Fdl3 |
M1combat: Surely you jest about the Nova looking like a Japanese bike? How? Anyway, if you look past the styling to the potential of the engine/drivetrain, does that change your perception of the possibilities of that project? I mean, what if this project HAD been produced? What would it have evolved to today? What if it was resurrected today? Would there be a place for it today? | ||
| M1combat |
No, I don't jest... To me it looks decidedly Japanese. Like a Japanese middleweight cruiser. I'd take an FX shovel over it every time. I like the tech, but not the look. I guess I'm just kind of a Harley guy. I like the look. As far as the engine and drivetrain... It looks more capable than the shovel that's for sure  . | ||
| Bluelightning |
I agree with M1 that it looks like a mid 80's Japanese cruiser. As a matter of fact, it looks VERY much like a early-mid 80's Yamaha Virago (looking at the tank, seat and fenders, not the engine). | ||
| Jim_m |
Don't forget that this was a time when HD was in a serious financial situation...The AMF years weren't too kind to the mother ship, and this was a way to try to compete with all the Japanese bikes taking their potential sales away. In the end (probably down to tooling costs) they went with the Evo program and cashed in on the nostalgia crazy getting underway back then...while it was a great decision, financially for HD, their line up hasn't really been revolutionary until the VRod. | ||
| Davegess |
I look at this way. If HD had made it, therefore not making the EVO but keeping the old leaky unreliable twin, they would no longer be with us. This thing would have gone head to head with the japanese. People would not be buying the nice evo bikes because they looked all american and were pretty reliable. No HD would be making the same bike as HONDA and Honda would have kicked their butts. HD thrives today because they have improved on their heritage in a time when this heritage appealed ot us boomers in many ways. A "modern" bike would not have done it. We would have had to compare it to a japanese bike and it would lhave lost. The evo had no competition. | ||
| M1combat |
Agreed Dave. I think it would have sank the ship. I think the final comment in the article summed it up quite nicely. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Dave, You hit the nail on the head!!!! Harley had to maintain their heritage at the time, its too bad they did not have the capital to go with both lines. | ||
| Fdl3 |
Here is the final comment M1combat is referring to: H-D Chairman and CEO Jeff Bleustein has his own answer. "You never know," he said. "You make the most of whatever decision you make because you don't get a chance to play it both ways. We're certainly not unhappy in the way our fortunes have gone." | ||
| Glitch |
I'd like to see someone re-open the case. Build the Harley Retro that never was. | ||
| Fdl3 |
Here are some points that excited me when I read that article: 1. Like Jim_m surmised, if HD had brought the Nova to market, it would not look like a mid-80s Japanese cruiser because it would have come out BEFORE those said Japanese cruisers. We would have instead been saying how those mid-80s Japanese cruisers were just knock-offs of the Nova (much like the Japanese cruisers of today are knock-offs of the EVO-styled HD bikes). 2. I am not bashing HD for not bringing the Nova to the market. The decision they made to develop the EVO engine was the better decision for their situation at that time. In fact, I am not necessarily saying that the Nova would be good today considering the VRod engine. What do y'all say about this one? 3. Like Davegess has surmised, the only way HD would have made the Nova work at the time was to be able to release BOTH the Nova and EVO engines at the same time. The EVO would have appealed to the heritage; the Nova would have appealed to the techies (just like HD had originally planned, and just like the article mentioned). 4. I thought 135hp from an engine in 1980 would have been pretty good for that day. If the Nova had come out and continued to develop through the years, just think of how much more reliable and POWERFUL it might have become! I think it might have had a chance to rival, or even beat, the Japanese. 5. The real exciting fly-in-the-ointment is how this article is a direct contradiction to the idea that HD can only make "archaic" engines. Most of the anti-HD people I talk to base their antagonistic attitude on how HD cannot make a MODERN engine (sans the VRod engine). Of course, you usually cannot pin down people's definition of what is a "modern" engine. Usually it involves liquid-cooling, OHC/DOHC, balance shafts, FI, and make more than 100hp at the wheel. 6. And where might Buell be if the Nova engine was the foundation rather than the EVO engine? Not that I don't like the Buells we have, but how many times have you heard it wished "If only Buell would use the VRod motor"? Ah, well. I guess I got overly excited over a what-if. | ||
| Jim_m |
Fdl3, Haven't you ever heard the story that one (or several) of the engineers on the Nova project had left after HD went the Evo route and ended up at Yamaha, who then came out with the VMax a few years later? I've never heard any confirmation, probably just an urban legend, but the timelines and similarities are awfully coincidental ;^D | ||
| Mikej |
The vehicle industry is relatively small and there is a lot of cross pollination of employees. There is even a fairly large amount of moonlighting that goes on relatively un-noticed and mostly outside the realm on non-compete non-disclosure agreements. You might be surprised to see what names show up where at various times, or sometimes just the faces and signatures.  | ||
| Djkaplan |
The Nova would have sunk Harley for sure if they tried to produce it. HD couldn't build the products they already had without problems - supporting a whole new platform would have been well out of their capabilities. As it was, post-AMF Harley almost didn't survive making the products everyone really wanted anyway. The core group of buyers that kept them alive would have balked on the Nova. Even today, most Harley riders wouldn't have anything but a V-twin. | ||
| Fdl3 |
Jim_m: No, I have not heard that story.  Mikej: Care to elaborate? Djkaplan: Like you, Davegess, M1combat, and Newfie_buell have said, HD would have (probably) sunk had they tried to have two platforms (the EVO and Nova) at the same time. It was better for HD to focus on one core platform, and hindsight certainly backs that up. Might the Nova be a viable platform for today, or does the VRod now fill that niche? | ||
| Jim_m |
I heard it a while ago...basically, if you wanted to see what HD might have been working on as a possible new bike, just go out and get a VMax ;^D lots of similarities between the two, but HD, in that era was lucky just to keep it's doors open. But what could have been...sigh As far as today? I don't think they could sell a V four any better than the V Rod or Buells for that matter. HD is too involved as the pinnacle of american motorcycles, and to deviate from what they've grown fat off of would probably send a majority of their stock holders into a tizzy. I'd really like to see it though...at least more iterations of the VR1000 motor in different platforms. | ||
| Mikej |
Fd, The stuff relevant to most folks here is buried in the archives of this site. For the stuff not on the site here, in the voice of Sgt. Schultz of Hogan's Heros, "I know nothing".   | ||
| S2pengy |
Let me throw something into this... Who was Erik working for in 1980 and was he not also an Engineer for that company...... | ||
| Outrider |
And the answer is??? | ||
| Phillyblast |
HD - Doh!  | ||
| Mikej |
S2, What time of day are we talking? | ||
| Outrider |
I assumed the HD part as the question asked for "Who was Erik working for in 1980 and was he not also an Engineer for that company......" | ||
| Raraf |
Where is the switch to this flame thrower? What a bunch of hookey, the Evolution engine did not save their •••. It was the Tariff that Reagan slapped on those Jap engines that supposedly were not competing with the American V-Twin. It allowed HD to pull it's head out and choose the Old Fart engine route. They could have done both. To say otherwise is like saying Americans are too dense to compete with foreigners. The Evolution is better than the older engines but so is would one fashioned out of dog feces. My brand new XB has sprung an oil leak much like the infamous engines of old. Tradition lives! | ||
| Mikej |
"Tradition lives!" Embrace the Tradition, but please don't park on the fresh concrete driveway. ps, hope the leak is simply a loose fitting. | ||
| Jim_m |
Oh the tariff had a big part of it as well, but I think it was Alan Girdler who said that at the time that the Evo started coming out, there was a whole generation of adults who grew up wanting a Harley cause it was what their dad had and now they could afford it. Looks just like Dad's, but it runs, stops, doesn't leak (well, as much). Had the Evo come out 3 years earlier, I don't think HD would have been nearly as successful. Then they may not have lasted to take advantage of the tariff situation. Combination of right place, right time, right circumstances. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I got to see that motor in the Dyno room at HD back in the mid 80s, when I visited my brother who works there.(he's now in charge of experimental mechanics I believe). It was said to make gobs of HP for it's weight/CCs 120HP was what I remember. coincidently years later, I got a job at Ehlert Tool in New Berlin. They still had the aluminum die cast molds sittin' on some shelves for the "nova" cases and cyl. Ehlert Tool went out of business a couple of weeks ago. Maybe someone could buy those molds at their upcoming auction | ||
| Bomber |
Raraf while I too wish that HD could have developed two entirely separate drive plants at the same time, it's not brains that is usually the limiting factor, but dollars HD, at the time, ,simply didn't have the money to do both -- the expense of either the Nova or Evo program was enough to choke a horse -- hindsight tells us that they made the right decision, I'm thinkin | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
well i know that the evo isnt the greatest thing in the world but ive been around that motor as long as i can remeber i really do love that engine not to say if h-d would have came up with this other one i wouldnt have liked it but im glad to have my evo's and thats allso one of the many reasons i love my buell and besides that buell if u remeber didnt start with the evo it started with the xr's and also mr. buell has said in an interview before that he likes air cooled engines |
