| Author | Message | ||
     Wyckedflesh |
Blake  I am game...you arrange it, I will dig up the funds somehow and bring out my XB12... | ||
| Blake |
Next year at the homecoming. Sounds tempting. Tuscon, The wuss failed to back up his mouth. Much different situation than this. Guy claimed his ZX12R would whoop me on my Cyclone on any track I chose. I chose Oak Hill Raceway, my home track, a very tight, highly technical track. Then commenced all manner of excusatory prevaricating. Dyna, Street tire is a street tire. You obviously have no clue what a race tire brings to the game. Silly boy. And I'm not even talking slicks. I run DOT racers. How does an M2 lose weight for the track? Are you joking? 1. Muffler 2. Headlight and bracketry 3. Extraneous wiring 4. Tail light 5. Seat 6. Tail section 7. Kickstand 8. Passenger Pegs 9. Shift linkage 10 Rear hugger/belt guard 11. Turn signals 12. Mirrors 13. Heat shield 14. Racing tires 15. Horn 16. Flasher 17. Ignition switch 18. Various lightweight racing components 19. Smaller battery 20. Trimmed Cam cover I've never weighed the thing though. I'd be surprised if it hasn't shed at least 30 LBs. Almost forgot... lightweight ported heads and performance lightweight pistons and lightweight all aluminum big bore jugs.  | ||
| Blake |
21. Aluminum front pulley. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Umm Blake..your "race" bike is also your street bike. I have seen pics of you on it & 90% of what you mentioned your bike still has. So we on for next years Buell event? | ||
| Outrider |
Any possibility that an event like this could get next years homecoming either canceled or more heavily regulated? Sure would hate to see that happen. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Hell, if RA doesnt work out we could always tangle at a B-trax event I have been known to get around the courses pretty smoothly & quickly. BTW...this isnt officially or unofficially sanctioned by Buell so they have no say in any of it. LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Mikej |
As long as they don't try to sneak a race in during parade laps then all should be fine. I believe there are track days before or after the event, whenever the event is scheduled for, which Buell/H-d probably hasn't determined yet. But with the local tracks around like RoadAmerica and Blackhawk something should be able to be set up. Shoot, if nothing else we can sneak into the Capitol Drive facility's back parking lot and lay out our own track after hours. We can call it the DynaBlakeTrax or something. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Hell we could set up a course downtown, thru the tunnels & what have you | ||
| Mikej |
Third Ward Bonzai run? Power slide over the bridge grating. Cloverleaf onto the eastbound freeway. Chop hard across to get the northbound tunnel. Quick U at the Police Palace to grab the northbound tunnel. Jump right back off at the first exit, hard down the hill, hard left over the bridge, rip up to North, zing down to Brady, flop over to Lafayette, and have a quick seat at the water treatment plant Coffee Shop with a "who me?" look on your face as the police come screaming by. | ||
| Mikej |
Not that I would ever do such a thing.  | ||
| Bomber |
Greg -- although my money is still on the R1 w/street tires, you are grossly over-estimating the weight of the M2 -- street ready/wet, mine is around 425/430 (measured on a scale), and there's lot's I could loose for a race, if need be (likely another 10 pounds) . . . . . . just data, and a little fuel to the smolder as for street vs race tires, I'm sure there's a huge difference (my last race-rubber experience was over 20 years ago, and incredible strides have been made since then), and blake is right about the amount of time a bike is leaned over at RA, but the angles are not very extreme for most of that time, and, having ridden a 2002 model of Greg's scoot, I'm pretty confident it would hook up quite nicely more than early enough to smoke the M2 not much of a contest, really (fast tuber rides at RA use euro gearing, at least in part, to extend the rear wheel a bit . . . . RA really isn't very twisty) now, Blackhawk WOULD be a contest . . . . I'd like to see that! | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Bomber...all the mag tests put the M2's dry weight at 435 lbs. hell my X1 is damn close to 500 lbs with a full tank. | ||
| Bomber |
stock, you bet! lots of weight ot be lost with hardly any effort on the tubers | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
Blake, I remember that other guy having diarrhea of the mouth, posting all kinds of crap on other boards. I was just hopin' you wupped his @ss. See, this is more interesting because I believe the two of you have a mutual respect for each other and actually WANT to see who can come out on top. I say bring it on! | ||
| Crusty |
Sounds good to me. Hopefully, I'll be able to make it and see the results with my own two ears. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Come on out Crusty, you want in on the track action? | ||
| Crusty |
I'll bet a Pepsi on the tires. I still think that they'll make all the difference. If you're asking me if I want in on the race, well, I could make whoever else is out there on the track with me look Fast. However, I bet it would be a gas to do a few laps of Road America. If possible, I'll be there; but the odds are against it. When are you coming out this way? I found a few more roads that will make you want to move out here. | ||
| Outrider |
Don't know if anyone noticed, but Dexter Ford has a nice column in the August issue of Motorcyclist about the new liter bikes and their predecessors. Might be a good read for anyone who has either positive or negative feelings about these bikes and their performance capabilities. Read it and you will understand his point. It is simple and applies to almost everything we do. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket, You don't seem to comprehend the whole point of discussion. It is about racing tires versus street tires and whether the racing tires on my M2 would equalize the performance advantage of an R1 on street tires. You do understand the difference between racing and street tires do you not? Actually the discussion WAS about Dyna hitting 172mph on his 04 R1. You came in here talking up your M2 on slicks. Do you understand that the advantage of running an M2 such as yours on slicks is not that great an advantage as running an 04 R1 on slicks. There's much more on tap to harness in a high horse power high revving motorcycle than there is on a lardy M2. Whilst on good street tyres you will be much closer to your M2's limit period, thus the slicks offering not as much advantage as say an R1 on slicks as opposed to good street tyres. Thus your analogy doesn't work that well in your favour. Basically you cannot say that the advantage of slicks over street tyres offers the same advantage across the board. Your slick shod M2 will not beat a street tyred 04 R1 on any track. Further, an R1 on slicks would prove to be a race winner in many different race series the world over. That in itself should tell you that your hopped up slick shod M2 would be pissing in the wind. Why you don't understand that I don't know. It's quite simple to work out, as I've already tried to explain previously. What this thread has become is typical of so many similar related threads. It seems the Buell die hards feel the need to trounce anyone that speaks good of something in some way better than a Buell. As for the 04 R1, I'm not in favour of the under seat pipe rear end. I think it looks to heavy. The bike doesn't look that bad as Japanese bikes go, but the latest style Blade, GSXR and ZX10 look loads more sporting purposeful than the R1 does. The first R1 is the best. It was very very quick and demanded racer like skill to get the very best out of it. That's why the 2nd generation R1 was tamed, then further still with the 3rd generation. As I understand it from various sources the 04 R1 has taken a step in the right direction this time, putting it back on top in performance, yet they've made the throttle much more user friendly, unlike that first generation R1 that scared many a new owner into selling. If I was going to buy an R1 it would have to be the first one. My friend bought one new in 1998. He was, and still is, a crazy blastard on a bike and he loved that R1. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Seems I too might be wrong about the R1's advantage on slicks. Michelin have recently introduced a new tyre, the 'Trackday Slick'. They have a similar profile to a road tyre so the track day rider doesn't need to alter the bikes suspension to suit, as might be the case if the bike was to run race slicks. Ex racer Jamie Whitham, who now runs a race school, had this to say about them. "Modern road tyres from decent companies are so good people don't need slicks. If we took 100 track day riders and got them to try slicks and normal tyres, 99 wouldn't be able to tell the difference". (Quote from MCN U.K, May 25th 04) Rocket | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Ex racer Jamie Whitham, who now runs a race school, had this to say about them. "Modern road tyres from decent companies are so good people don't need slicks. If we took 100 track day riders and got them to try slicks and normal tyres, 99 wouldn't be able to tell the difference". So perhaps its merely a placebo effect? They spend the money for what they feel are "better" tires & this gives a person more confidence in their tires. | ||
| M1combat |
No... It's not a placebo effect. It's the fact that Jamie Whitham was probably exagerating a bit. Unless of course he was comparing them to DOT race rubber, then sure there's not that much of a difference. For our purposes we were talking about Dunlop D218's and "race rubber". Big difference. | ||
| Mark_in_ireland |
Quote...You can find all those obscure little tid bits about Iraq but you couldnt find info on a tire? ROTFLMAO...good comment!! Made me smile on a depressing day, Rocket phoned me up wanting money for work he's done for me   | ||
| Rocketman |
Combat dude, Jamie wasn't exaggerating. He was testing the Michelin 'trackday slick'. He had no reason to exaggerate. He was talking from experience. Experience in BSB, WSB and 500 GP on a two stroke and Moto GP on a four stroke. Such disciplines don't require DOT slicks so he wasn't making that comparison either. Jamie now runs a race school so he must know what different tyres do to his customers lap times, never mind their ability. Did you see WSB from Leguna Seca yesterday? Chris Vermulen took both races on this years only campaigned Fireblade. He first rode that bike in winter testing and with the exception of the last test all testing was done using street tyres. Chris told me so himself. Rocket | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Hey M1, I have to agree with Rocket, it's what I was trying to point out earlier and just decided it wasn't worth going round and round about. I do know what Blake was talking about wrt the DOT race tires but those weren't what I was talking about but hey, I just didn't feel like getting into it. | ||
| Blake |
Jamie was obviously referring to DOT racing tires. DOT racing tires will run over $300 a set while the street versions can be had for just over $200 a set. No competitive racer, no matter their budget constraints, will run street tires. Hey Rocket, you don't know what the flip you are talking about. You are wrong old buddy. Trust me on this. No street tire shod bike will come close to a similar but racing tire equipped machine on the track. DOT racing rubber is not much advantage over the slicks. TRUE! DOT racing rubber is a HUGE advantage over their street tire versions. TRUE! Why? Street tires are formulated to perform in the wet as well as in the dry, and also for MUCH lower operational temperatures, even very cold temperatures. The components added to provide improved wet running grip hurt dry grip and the street tires flat out cannot handle the extreme operational temperatures they see at the track as well as the racing tires that are purpose built to operate at those high temperatures. Even the tread design of street tires is a significant hinderance to optimum grip. It is designed to channel water even at full lean. DOT racing tires are not concerned with chanelling water and only include the absolute minimum of tread grooving to meet DOT requirements. Y'all can believe whatever you like. I've personally ridden around the track on both. The difference is unbelievable and extreme. | ||
| Rocketman |
Hey Rocket, you don't know what the flip you are talking about. You are wrong old buddy. Trust me on this. No street tire shod bike will come close to a similar but racing tire equipped machine on the track. That's right, I never said it would. I think Jamie's point was that the Average Joe doing a track day wouldn't notice the difference between the two so much, where as a balls out pro racer obviously would be capable of exploiting both types of tyres to their limits, not least because he's riding a balls out racer, unlike the Average Joe doing a track day on a road legal R1. In any case we were not talking about similar equipped bikes on race rubber. We were talking about your at least 6 years old M2 taking on an 04 R1, you on race rubber, the R1 on those 218's you've never heard of  Look Blake, you've succeeded in bringing this thread to an end but do you still think you stand a chance - on any track - against an 04 R1, on your old dog M2? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
If the R1 is on street tires under a comparable rider, on any tight track it will not only lose but lose terribly. At RA I don't know. You ever done any laps with new race compound tires on a motorcycle? Obviously not. Dude the difference is not minor. It is drastic and darn near unbelievable. | ||
| Rocketman |
Then you really are pissed! Rocket | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Funny thing is Blake understands the difference between tires, but cant understand or relate to the extreme differences in performance between the 2 bikes. Either that or he just gets off on arguing silly things..hell proof of thats is a couple thousand war topic posts |
