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Archive through July 15, 2004Blake30 07-15-04  09:17 pm
         

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Dbird29
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

YamaSquid:
1,000,000 Negative posts
5.5 Positive posts.

100% Entertaining.
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R1DynaSquid
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why does it make zero sense? Its kinda goofy to toot your horn claiming you sell more bikes than anyone else, when the reality is you only sell more of a certain type of bike.

Honda doesnt concentrate 100% of its resources on the heavyweight cruiser market, they are all over the map when it comes to bikes.

The only market to which Harley-Davidson should be compared are the 800cc plus cruisers/customs/tourers. They are being generous by comparing all the way down to 650cc models.

Notice that the chart Jose posted has nothing to do with types of bikes...its strictly engine size related. Why would they cut it off at 650cc's? Why not take it down to 500cc's? It all about the number of bikes sold & registered, nothing more, nothing less.

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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You really think Honda sold 146000 sub 600cc bikes last year Dyna?
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R1DynaSquid
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

yep.
Take a guess how many dirt bikes, scooters, etc they sell?
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José_quiñones
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

2002 Motorcycle Sales from Motorcycle Consumer News

Motorcycle Consumer news did this chart in 2002 for all manufacturers, which includes all bikes for the U.S. Market.

They have not published the 2003 results yet. The HD stuff is the best I have found absent the MCN data.

edited by josé_quiñones on July 15, 2004
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R1DynaSquid
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well looky looky, Honda tops HD every year: D
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M1combat
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe for the first three of the last five years... We were discussing this year yes? Go find those numbers Dyna...
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R1DynaSquid
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

They arent out yet.

Figure market growth & look at the trend on that chart & there is 0 reason to believe that HD beat Honda.
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M2me
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

OK, what about street bikes only? HD probably beats Honda in the US for street bikes only regardless of the size of the bike. Total bike sales for Honda counts all bikes, even 50cc bikes that little Timmy rides in the backyard. A lot of those bikes aren't street legal.
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R1DynaSquid
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

im not sure of that, are those numbers strictly for bikes which are registered? If so that leaves out all of the dirt bikes.

Just posing the question, I dont know if those charts include all bikes or not. Also scooters arent considered motorcycles, completely separate category.
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Socoken
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 12:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

KTM outsold Buell nearly 3 to one in 2002 and you arent sure if those figures include dirtbikes?

HD market share went up 2% while Hondas did not change, and was about three percent above HD. if you follow that trend, in two more years (from 2002) HD should surpass Honda, no?
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"im not sure of that, are those numbers strictly for bikes which are registered? If so that leaves out all of the dirt bikes. "

Most states require dirt bike registration. Think before you type.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Honda doesnt concentrate 100% of its resources on the heavyweight cruiser market, they are all over the map when it comes to bikes."
No, but HD does concentrate on the heavyweight cruiser/custom/touring market and it is in those specific markets that HD would seek to determine its share. Why would HD care to know its share in the dirtbike market? HD does not engage in mass marketing of dirt bikes. Why would HD want to know its share of the small <650cc bike market? HD does not predominantly engage in the marketing of <650cc bikes.

Do you think Ferrari compares its market share to other car manufacturers based upon the other manufacturers' entire model line? That would be completely stupid and a wholly inane business practice. Ferrari wants to know what portion they own of the market in which they are seeking to succeed, only the high end sport car market.

These table are for the use of prospective investors and business analysts. They are not put together merely for our amusement or to compare relative total sales of all the various motorcycle manufacturers. Their contents are pertinent to the business in which HD is predominantly engaged. The manufacture and sale of large cruiser/custom/touring motorcycles.

Quit playing the dumass or I'll change your username to fit your trolling and feigned ignorance. Promise!
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Court
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 04:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>That would be completely stupid and a wholly inane business practice.

Which would qualify the topic for it's own Badweb conversation?

: )

Ever seen an Olympic sprinter judge their progress by watching over their shuolder?

I assure you neither Buell nor HD makes marketing decisions based on "how can we eclipse KTM this year?"
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José_quiñones
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 07:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You're both right

If you include all bikes (dirt/street), Honda wins

If you only talk about 651+cc Streetbikes, HD wins.

Either way, HD's numbers are impressive because all they sell are heavyweight cruisers and touring bikes, with a smattering of "Standards" in the form of Buell.

edited by josé_quiñones on July 16, 2004
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Crusty
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Anybody remember 20 years ago when H-D had less than 5% of the market, I think they only sold a total of about 3,000 bikes in 1983. And now people are going back and forth because Harley sold 200,000 bikes and may have outsold Honda depending on if dirt bikes are included.
What we ought to do is expand the universe a little to include all motor vehicles. Now, Honda will definately be ahead of Harley, since it sells so many Accordians, Pisspots and Elementaries. But then, that opens the door for Ford and GM and Toyota. Hmmmm, I guess Harley really isn't selling so many vehicles, after all.
The bottom line is How important is it?
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Blake
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you include software, Bill Gates wins.
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