| Author | Message | ||
     R1DynaSquid |
M1, that track is over 4 miles long & isnt anywhere near tight or twisty. Turns 6 & 8 are the only ones that would be considered "slow" corners. Unlike you I have been on the track & an M2 wouldnt stand a chance. Now take it to a tight track like OHR or similar venue & its a different story. Blake's bike has the torque and handling Umm you do realize that an R1 has over 70 ft lbs of torque & the ama racers seem to think its a pretty damn good handling bike. Sure as hell is going to be better than a 5-6 yr old M2. If you think otherwise than you are kidding yourself. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
How much does your bike weigh Blake? More than an R1. | ||
| Socoken |
race rubber makes an unbelievable difference, so rest assured, his bike would own yours in the corners. if you can argue with that, you have either never ridden on race compound tires, or you are just plain delusional. BUT, if i understand this correctly, RA has a great deal of straits, and emphasis is pretty high on straitaway speeds. but, keep in mind, power and torque aside, Dyna will have to get on the gas later, and on the brakes earlier on every stretch. Blakes M2 is no average M2, 100RWHP and what, 90 to 100tq too? thats near the HP and more than double the torque of most 600s. so the bottom line is, would going from race rubber to street rubber add more than 6 seconds? id bet on it. | ||
| Bomber |
I'd bet on it as well, if the riders were not talented amatuers -- but they are, so I wouldn't | ||
| Uwgriz |
I don't usually jump in on these types of discussions, but having been on RA I know there were a few guys that I was faster than getting through some of the corners but I just watched them get smaller down the the straights (including Kettle Bottoms). Count me in on the Dynasquid. Now if I could just figure out who that long haired hippie was that passed me... | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Exactly. I dont care if you put magic tires on the M2...the bottom line is its not a race bike whereas the R1 basically is. It has the power & handling to more than compensate for the tiny bit of traction it would lose in the corners to a race shod M2. Keep it going tho, this is pretty funny  | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm not wrong at all. You can't use the analogy of hindering a Super Bike by running it on street tyres. We're talking running an M2 on race rubber which is entirely different. And yes I'm well aware of the difference a pair of slicks would make. Truth is, your M2 Blake would maybe lap a few seconds faster on race rubber as opposed to street rubber, but you still won't be near an 04 R1. Hell, a stock one, all but pipe and on slicks, has just come 9th in the Formula 1 TT. If your M2 was remotely competitive we'd all be doing the TT on a shoe string, and getting top ten finishes on our own M2's. My 916 title on Dyna. You lose I get your M2. Rocket | ||
| M1combat |
"How much does your bike weigh Blake? More than an R1." No •••• Dyna... So... How much is it? "M1, that track is over 4 miles long & isnt anywhere near tight or twisty." Where did I say it was? I still don't think you understand the difference between race rubber and street rubber. I've only experienced the difference in a car so I can't say for certain either, but if it's the same or similar difference it's a very noticeable one. I would imagine that Blake probably has a setup that's dialed in just a tad better than you do as well (that's pure speculation on my part though). In any case, I know the track, I still bet on the better handling bike with the better rider. I'm not saying that "an M2" handles better than an R1, but with the setup, tires and probable suspension mods I bet it does. | ||
| M1combat |
Wow, it just got a lot more interesting... Dyna... It's not a "tiny bit of difference" in traction. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
And adding 6 seconds by going from street to race tires? Have to look up..maybe jose can do this..the differences between the slicks they race with & the rain tires they use sometimes. I am pretty damn sure its not 6 seconds difference. Blakes quote with some literary licensing from myself If you've never ridden an R1, you simply cannot imagine the amount of increased power & handling they provide. I was doubtful myself before I switched to the R1 Blake I replaced tires with R1. There is a reason M2's arent winning championships. BTW, this argument goes for the ZX10R, CBR1000RR as well as the GIXXER1000. If anyone thinks a race tire equipped M2 could take any of those bikes at RA, check into the local mental health institute because you are in need of help. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I still don't think you understand the difference between race rubber and street rubber. And you dont & cant even begin to comprehend the difference between the R1 or any litre bike & an M2. Its not just a little difference...its huge. And weight, I believe the M2 weighs somewhere around the 500lb mark fully gassed. The R1 is 450 lbs. And believe me, I do know the difference race tires would make. Give the R1 & the M2 equal tires & the R1 would not only beat the M2 badly, it would also lap it. | ||
| Socoken |
...tiny bit of traction ... i wish to refer to my earlier post. the way i see it, it breaks down like this: rider ability= Blake. he has been on his bike longer, been on tracks longer, and hell, Dyna JUST got his, so its not a fair comparo. cornering= Blake, race rubber, tuned suspension. strait speed and acceleration= Dyna, its an R1 for crying out loud. Braking= draw, R1 has much better brakes, but i bet money Blake knows how to use his better, not to mention the added traction of race rubber. Because RA is a really fast track, i think with equal riders with equal track time and tuned bikes, the R1 walks away with it easily. if Blake and Dyna raced tomorrow, Blake would hand Dynas ••• to him. as far as weight goes, Dyna, how much do YOU weigh? of course, this is all the theory of some idiot kid.  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Right now im at 210 lbs. And yes imn still getting used to the bike. I have never said I would beat Blake tomorrow at the track. Give me a little time to get used to the bike & then I would have no problem. Pretty fair rider myself...although Dave is better...damn it!! BTW...I have been working with my suspension on an almost daily basis working on getting the stock components dialed in before I decide on spending money needlessly for a shock. Remember that we are talking a bike that has finished 11th in an AMA superbike race in dead stock trim & 9th as Rocket posted at the TT. | ||
| Socoken |
the bike is a race replica, so no small wonder it does well stock in races, with race rubber. all that power just magnifies the difference in traction. should the R1 wear racing hoops, i think even tomorrow, you might make it close. in any case, id still love to see the race! C'mon up Blake, WI has great roads, and better beer. | ||
| Daves |
I would have to go with Dyna on this one. I've been on RA several times, although never on a XB, yet. Dyna is no slouch of a rider, yes Blake is probably faster and has more track time. BUT at Road America, HP is king. A rider on a Buell would have to be lots faster to beat a pretty good rider on a R1. I, of course, would love a spot on this grid if it were to happen. I don't know if I could beat Dyna or not there and am leaning towards not(different bike for me too this year, no track time since last sept). But it sure would be fun to beat Blake there  Better yet Blake, come to Blackhawk on the 23rd of August and we can both beat Dyna! Dave | ||
| Daves |
PS, Maybe I could "borrow" Hobans race XB, then I'll race you at RA Dyna! Dave | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
come to Blackhawk on the 23rd of August and we can both beat Dyna LOL..I already know you are gonna smoke my ••• on that track. Hell I am still a little gun shy since my crash & hopefully a decent track day will get me over the hump. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Take a really good look at road america's layout...for the main track, the corners actually favor the R1 since most of them are highspeed. Now if you take it over to the Briggs motorplax track...Blake and his M2 hands down. http://www.roadamerica.com/2004/maps/map_track_580w.htm <---main http://www.roadamerica.com/2004/maps/map_motorplex_580w.htm <---Briggs motoplex (as in utilize the most corners for the layout) edited by wyckedflesh on July 07, 2004 | ||
| Davegess |
I have been on the RA track a few times in a car, never very fast, and have been follwing racing there since the 1960's HP is the story. It is a little bit less now that they "fixed" the kink. The kettle botoms used to be the fastest part of the track but even with that change it is a track were even the fastest bikes spend a lot time in top at full throttle. EVen a fair bit of time at redline. Out of 14 and up the hill to the finish line your HP/weight ratio tells the whole story. The track was designed in the mid fifites by a bunch of guys who owned Ferrari's and didn't want those pesky Porsche and Lotus cars beating them. I go with Dyna. | ||
| Blake |
Dave, My original comment was...
Greg obviously believes that HP far outweighs tire compound. I'm not sure, I just know that a set of racing rubber is worth about 7 seconds at OHR which is a small tight track. But I bet that racing tires would also be worth about 7 seconds at RA too. I think it would be an interesting investigation. Greg, I've ridden big HP bikes. They accelerate scary fast. While I'm shifting into 4th you are likely still in 1st gear. I know how fast an R1 is. You have no idea what a racing tire brings to the game. A race compound provides a heck of a lot more than a "tiny bit of traction" more than a street tire. I searched the Dunlop site but could not find anything about a 218 series tire. No matter, if it is a street compound tire, it would not do well on the track in a best lap-time scenario. I don't know what the outcome would be, but I bet it would be a lot closer than some imagine. My first time out on race compound tires, my lap time at OHR immediately, like by the fifth lap, had dropped by 7 seconds. The grip is so extreme it boggles the mind. Like there is well cured contact cement on your tires and the track. Stuff started dragging all over the place, the muffler, the shifter peg, foot pegs, my boots, yes with full-on racing rear-sets. The R1 is by far a superior racing machine, but without grip its only advantage is top speed. Like I said, it would be interesting. Not likely to happen though. Y'all need to wise the hell up and move South.  Oh, Greg, you asked if I thought my M2 is comparable to a Supersport racing machine. Nope. But you apparently failed to see my logic. What I was saying was that the performance difference between your stock R1 and my race prepped Cyclone is for the sake of comparison about the same as the difference between an Miguel's CBR1000RR Superbike and Tommy Hayden's ZX6R Supersport racer. I assume that I would mount a fairing on the Buell and have it geared to achieve a top speed of around 150 mph. Your R1's top speed would likely be around 175 mph. Now, if I can enter, transit and exit each turn at least 15% faster than you, are you still sure your R1 would fair as well as you think? I don't. Think about how much time you spend negotiating the turns versus upright blasting down the high speed straights. So if with racing tires, the M2 is on average 10% faster than the R1 for 75% of the time spent transiting around the track but the R1 is 25% faster for 25% of the time, who ends up ahead? It is the elapsed time spent at higher speed that matters, not the distance covered. Hmmmm.... makes you think don't it. Well, it should.  | ||
| Daves |
I'm hoping to set up a track day at RA for next year with Edge Racing. The grid will be, Blake on his race M2 Dyna on his R1 with street tires Me on a XB12R with H2s on it Sean Edgett on his race R1 Who else wants to come out and play? Dave | ||
| Daves |
Hey Blake, If I beat you can I have a banner then? Dave | ||
| M1combat |
Also keep in mind that AFTER the corner the race rubbered bike would have more speed for a bit of distance down the straight. This means that the R1 rider would have to not only gain the speed to START catching the M2 (while the M2 is gaining speed also), but actually catch him as well. I still say the M2 on race rubbers will be faster than the R1 on street tires. It's funny you mention the contact cement Blake... The very upper end of "unobtainium" race rubber actually chemically reacts with the pavement (at least with cars they do but it's the same manufacturers so I don't see why they wouldn't use compounds with those properties on bikes as well). | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
the R1 rider would have to not only gain the speed to START catching the M2 (while the M2 is gaining speed also Ask someone who has ridden a litre bike how long it would take to START catching the M2...hmm nano seconds sounds about right. You have no idea what a racing tire brings to the game. A race compound provides a heck of a lot more than a "tiny bit of traction" more than a street tire. I am aware. But I am also aware that RA is a big track with lots of fast areas that dont require the optimum traction that a race slick would offer. The small amount of time lost in corners due to tire slippage would be more than offset by the mucho hp & high speed straights. Dave...you set up a track day at RA for next year & you can just sign me up right now for it. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Who else wants to come out and play? OO OO OO OO Mr. Kottair! Mr. Kottair! If I get a note from Epsteins mother can I come out too!? | ||
| Socoken |
Think about how much time you spend negotiating the turns versus upright blasting down the high speed straights. So if with racing tires, the M2 is on average 10% faster than the R1 for 75% of the time spent transiting around the track but the R1 is 25% faster for 25% of the time, who ends up ahead? It is the elapsed time spent at higher speed that matters, not the distance covered. Hmmmm.... makes you think don't it. Well, it should. Blake wins | ||
| 420at145mph |
jesus just race n shutup already 7 PAGES of pissing n moaning edited by 420at145mph on July 07, 2004 | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
At RA you spend more time blasting the straights than any of the "corners"...didnt you read Dave Gess's response? RA is definitely not 75% corners like OHR is. Ken..nobody likes a suck up  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I have to agree with Dyna about RA, the average speed of the corners isn't slow enough to allow for the better handling of the M2. What you would gain on slicks Blake wouldn't be enough to counter the higherspeeds Dyna could carry. You would already be in 3rd or 4th for most of the corners on the M2 iirc, where as Dyna would be in 2nd to 3rd with more length of powerband through the corners then the M2 will have. I don't think he would lap you in a 10 lap race, but I think he would have a decent lead. | ||
| Socoken |
not sucking up, trust me, it would be the first time i have ever rooted for a Texan, dammed Cowboys anyway...... Packers Rule!!!!!!! |
