| Author | Message | ||
     Dyna |
So did anyone watch the greatest travesty in racing? I caught the tail end of it & aside from Al Unser Jr & Sarah Fisher just who the hell are the rest of that motley crew? I miss the old days before Tony george screwed it up & the best of the best were there. I havent enjoyed the race since Rick Mears retired. And then just when Michael Andretti was hitting his prime the big fallout happened & Michael spent much of his career avoiding Indy. Damn shame too. | ||
| Southernmarine |
I'm with you on that Dyna. I pretty much stopped watching it after the split. Although, I was glad to see that Rahal and Lettermans car with Buddy Rice at the wheel won. | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Well don't lay all of the blame at Tony Georges' feet. There's plenty of blame to go around in both camps. Tony's forming the IRL was a reaction to CART's policies of squeezing out of small teams by the large powerful car owners/rules makers. CART is the greatest example of why any sanctioning body should be independent of team ownership/franchising. Open wheel racing in this country was heading for disaster regardless. As far as this years race, it was just as exciting as the 600 has been so far this evening-boring. | ||
| Coolice |
Yea I've gone to the 500 20 years in a row ..... I did not go this year. Just couldn't get excited about it. How about Moto GP at Indy? | ||
| Aaron |
What Ayden said. I'd also add that CART got awfully snobbish. Drivers were inaccessible to the fans. The events became more about bigwigs rubbing elbows and entertainment of the corporate elite in their private hospitality tents and Prevost's than the fans themselves, who were treated like third class citizens. The majority of the drivers were rich people who were buying their rides. I used to race in SCCA Trans-Am, which was often a support race at CART events. I saw all this and a whole lot more from the CART circus. The whole thing just put a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't about racing, it was about big business and big money and the rich and powerful entertaining the rich and powerful. Tony George, besides trying to control costs and give up-and-coming young drivers a chance, also put a lot of emphasis on returning the sport to the fans. Kudos to Tony. And to CART, which is all but dead now that all the major teams have departed, good riddance. I don't mind it a bit seeing Roger Penske eat a little humble pie. He got quite the business lesson. The only downside, in my view, is the lack of road courses in IRL. Hopefully they'll fix that. edited by aaron on May 31, 2004 | ||
| Dyna |
Didnt Cart go bankrupt last year? | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Well Iwas there again yesterday sitting thru the rain. I have been going since i was six years ol , 1969. and it was just as great as ever. who cares about the big names the racing is good and close. and if you don't follow other racing you won't know who those guys are. But most come out of open wheeled racing. and at one time rick mears was a unknow also. I believe what they are doing in the IRL is great, but the race back into the drivers hand and not just the cars. Infact this years they changed the rules to make the car more difficult to drive. Pretty cool I'd say. There is nothing like the start of that race anywhere on this earth and I have been to more races in my lifetime than I can even remember.it is just great , period. CART dang near ruined the sport, hell the teams didn't even have mechanics anymore, the only people that could work on the engines were the people at the factory, they had to take the engine out and send it back to the manufacturer, pretty stupid in my eyes. Dyna my buddy....if big names are what you want just go down to the local court house, I am sure there is some pro athlete down there for something and the price of addmission is free. Plus the cart Indy races were so boring when the 1st place guy would have a 20 sec. lead over second and second the 3rd place car was not on the lead lap. That ain't racing, thats just driving. and BTW al unser jr is old and done, he should be doing what mike andrettin is doing. See he knew when to get out. it was a great race, but being indy mother nature played a lil havoc yesterday. then at the end of the race tornados were dropping down everywhere. pretty exciting day to me. can't wait for next year | ||
| Dyna |
Bubba, yep I prefer the big names..kinda makes it like wrestling, you can cheer the good guys or the villians. When you dont know who any of the drivers are then you just dont know who to root for. I agree about lil Al, shoulda got out awhile ago. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
well thats true but.....if you follow the sport you'll figure out who to like. My money was on sam hornish yesterday but a bad pit stop put him back a ways and he got caught up in a mess. the story behind buddy rice the winner is cool....4 months ago hr got fired by eddie cheever for non performane. well kenny breck had that bad wreck last year and still can't drive so...the rahal letterman team, you've heard of rahal right?, hired buddy.....the rest is history. Puts it on the pole and wins from there, that don't happen much at Indy. its a good story for ya, whatta think. and hey he ain't a penske guy. thats my only problem with Hornish he drives for penske now...the devil. remember in the early days of the IRL and everyone was saying...whos this tony stewart guy.... | ||
| Dyna |
Never cared for Rahal when he was driving. Its cool rooting for Satan Penske  And Stewart never should have left. Nascar sure as hell doesnt need him. And whats the deal with AJ Foyt? For being a hell of a driver back in his day he sure make s a lousy team owner. His drivers suck..damn family members. I wanna see an Indy race with nothing but legends in it..Foyt, Unser Sr, Mears, Mario Andretti, Jackie Stewart, etc. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
come on dyna.....they are all retired.... and it was Indy that made them ledgends...but they all came out of the dirt. yeah foyt is my man of all time, he is the best . he won INDY as an owner a few years back with kenny breck as his driver. but yes larry foyt is a no talent in my eyes and aj iv, is just still too young an inexperienced, he just turned 20 this last year. NASCAR does need tony stewart, because he is old school and gets in trouble alot in the new corparate stock car game. they need his attitude. trust me we will see him back at indy, he wants to win it so bad . one of these days. but your comparing apples and oranges. all those guys were rookies and unknows at one time. and ledgends are hard to come by. what about loydd ruby, gary bettenhousen, bobby unser,donahue, sneva,parnelli jones....come on now lets name some INDY ledgends...the list goes on and on....kinda like life | ||
| Dyna |
I believe Bettenhausen is dead, I know Donahue is....if he had lived longer he would have been the best of all time. Sneva was good but just never lit the world on fire. | ||
| Blake |
Dyna, You be old dude. If you are a fan of Indy car, there are plenty of big names. I'm with Aaron on the whole CART VS Indy Car issue. Funny thing, was watching the FX race with friends on Sunday and we had this exact same discussion. What sucks is that after the 2nd rainstorm I assumed the race would be postponed until Monday, so I missed it. Bummer. I hope to catch the Indy Cars in Ft. Worth again this year though. First time I'd seen any super-speedway auto racing was last year. It blew me away. | ||
| Uwgriz |
Dyna, just my opinion on Foyt - It's got nothing to do with his drivers (although they're not really the cream of the crop, partially because nobody wants to drive for him) but everything to do with him. He's still his stubborn old self and wants to do everything the old fashioned way. One of the major downfalls of all his teams (open wheel and NASCAR) is that he refuses to hire engineers and that just doesn't cut it in this sport these days. | ||
| Bomber |
ya notice a trend . . . .the "great drivers" came out of the dirt . . . .. look at the American bike racers . . .also ofrom a dirt background . . . . . . mosts four-wheel racing is so distanced from the fans (as Aaron wrote above) . . . . let's hope bike racing doesn't go the same way | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
IMHO-the only open wheel racing left worth caring about all happens on dirt. The best drivers in the world right now all came out of sprints and midgets. I mean the BEST!!! I'd like to see some of the anointed "greats" strap on a 410 sprint and do 40 laps at Gas City or Eldora. Micheal Shumacher, he'd be tangled in the fence after the first stab of the throttle. Dale Jr, peeing his pants in fear after hooking the first rut. We've already seen who's the man between Jeff Gordon and Wahn Pablo Montoya( I know it's spelled wrong, sue me). Jeff was knocking down competitive laps almost immediately, Montoya, well at least he didn't crash. As far as Tony's concerned, you will see him back at Indy, no doubt, but I honestly believe he's not going to last out his current contract with Gibbs and he'll go back sprint car racing with an eye on un-seating Steve Kinser as the all time king of the Outlaws. The 'Cup gig is just to raise enough capital to make sure he can do it his way. Hows that for some opinions! | ||
| Djkaplan |
I thought it was a great race. Interesting pit strategies and enough passing to make it exciting. I'll give the IRL credit, I was all against Tony George at first, but last Sunday's race was a good show. | ||
| Ftd |
Ditto Djkaplan's post. I was also glad to see an American driver (and a motorcycle rider) win. A short piece on Buddy Rice shown before the race on ABC had him riding up on a bike. He is from Arizona and was on a Bourget (made in Phoenix). Cool IMO Frank | ||
| Smitty |
I kinda agree with Dyna, all forms of racing have lost their luster and charm. I can remember going to the track and meeting the drivers and having my uncle lift me up to see in the cars. Now I think like car dealerships and business in general the money is just too big. I guess what the real problem is that I can remember when it was different and in the future other people will be having this same discussion. I guess I’m getting old. Tim | ||
| Bomber |
smitty -- you need to get yerself to an AMA dirt track event . . . . . exactly the same feeling you've so nicely described is still in force there . . . . . at the end of each heat/race, the winner still thanks their sponsors, talks about the great race his/her competitors put on, and then takes the time to actually THANK THE FREAKING FANS! all this is after you've wandered the pits before the heat racing starts, gotten autographs, shaken hands with the riders, and watched with joy as some 7 year old walks away with a tear-off or sumpin, dreaming of the day HE can ride . . . . who'da thunk? | ||
| Thunderbox |
Tony George only did what he did because that was best for Tony George. If anyone believes he did it for another reason you are sadly mistaken. Lets face it people this is big money and Tony wants more of it. He could give a damn if it totally destroyed the Indy 500 if it was good for his bank book thats all that counts to him and those like him. Personally I haven't watched a a race other than Cart, Nascar or F1 since they started the Indy Race League. | ||
| Uwgriz |
The split between CART and the IRL has obviously damaged open wheel racing in this country (not counting USAC or WoO) but even beyond that, what did the most damage to Indy was the format of the race the first year after the split. Many of the top drivers were planning to run Indy that year despite it being an IRL points race because they wanted to race against the best and that's where they were all going to be until TG decided to designate the first 25 spots in the field for IRL regulars. This left only 8 spots for the rest which in the eyes of those drivers, meant they wouldn't be racing the best of the best but rather 7 of the best and 25 also rans. So they gave Indy a collective finger and Roger Penske started the US 500 at his track in Michigan. The format was changed back the following year to run the 33 fastest but the damage had already been done. There are two sides to every story and I can see both of them. Both groups in my opinion have helped to damage the sport but I think the damage to Indy itself falls more on what happened that first year. | ||
| Bomber |
it's funny, I was speaking with a cowork, who's husband take her and the kids to Indy every year . .. . hase for decades . . .it's the only race they pay attention to, to only one they care about, and, when I mentioned CART and IRL to her, I got the alert airedale look (head cocked to one side, blank look in the eyes) . . .she and her old man love the race, or rather, the event, and have no idea what we're talking about here . . . . Indy's Indy, and will likely carry on almost no matter what racing fans may think/say or do . . .. . . | ||
| Ftd |
FYI on IRL/CART: Penske Renews Call for IndyCar/Champ Car Reunification Written by: RACER staff Indianapolis, Ind. – 6/1/2004 Roger Penske (LAT photo) Pre-eminent car owner Roger Penske has renewed his call for a unification of the IRL and Champ Car rivals in an article published by the New York Times on Sunday. “My goal, over the next couple of months, is to come up with a way to repair the split that led me away from Indianapolis for five years,” Penske wrote. “I'd like to see one group, not two, racing Indy cars again. It would benefit not only Tony George, the president of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway…. “Going to the Indy 500 is like going to the Kentucky Derby. But I didn't know what I had been missing until I came back. Now is the time for everyone to come back. Penske added that in his view a title sponsor for the IRL could be the springboard for renewal. “The trajectory of Indy-car racing is not down. It's not flat. The quality of the race teams has improved,” he noted. “There's support for the series within the automotive industry. The sponsorships are strong. In the future, we will need to find one sponsor who will be able to do for Indy car racing what Nextel can do for stock car racing. “I think Tony George will be able to land a first-class sponsor for the IRL. Hopefully, that's on the horizon. If we have such a corporate sponsor for one series, with 35, 36, 37 cars available to compete regularly, I think it would lead to more competitive races and a better series over all than the two separate series we have now." | ||
| Thunderbox |
It may be no difference to them because, although they attend the race every year they are obviously not fans of Cart or IRL. Not knowing the difference says it all. | ||
| Dyna |
The Outlaw sprint races used to be great years ago, but even they have gottne pretty swelled in the head & dont always give the fans their moneys worth. Years ago I went to the now closed Santa Fe speedway for the races. They actually had 2 lousy heat races & then the main & that was it. $20 blown & it didnt even take an hr. I vowed not to go to anymore of their events. I did go for many years however to our local 1/3rd mile clay track that had winged sprints, latemodel sportsmans, midget sprints & hobby stocks. Even competed for 1 season in hobby stock using a 73 camaro but even if I won my heat race & did well in the feature I still lost a boatload of money just due to tire wear & gas costs. | ||
| Uwgriz |
"I think Tony George will be able to land a first-class sponsor for the IRL." Personally, I doubt that will happen until said sponsor sees that the IRL is the only series with a claim to being the premier open wheel series in the US. The champ car series is struggling but holding on nonetheless. |
