| Author | Message | ||
     Henrik |
I've got the walls torn down and re-framed - so I was thinking now would be the time to wire most of the house for phone, computer network and satellite TV - as if there isn't enough to do already  Has anyone done this? Suggestions/do's/don'ts? Cable, box, faceplate, plug brands/vendors? How-to books etc.? Henrik (I did a Google search and both options and prices are staggering :0) | ||
| Wceviper |
Network wiring is easy, just a few pairs need to be punched down in the right order. Cable should be Cat5, for 100mb access within your home. I use avaya cable, not sure the connections I use, but that are punch down flush mount jacks. Most electionics stores will carry them. You need to have a central location for a patchpanel. Where ever that is, needs to have 1-2 power outlets. This is usually in a closet or garage. You need to determine the number of rooms you want to wire. Heres the cool thing about cat5 cable, it can be used for phone service too. When I run new drops, I do the following. 2 Network drops per room (1 for computer, 1 for laptop/printer/other computer) 1-2 phone jacks, if you have multipal lines, you can patch those easy too!. get wire that is plenum (rated), Should your house catch on fire, the wire will not burn and spew toxic fumes everywhere. Use Solid copper, You cant punch down fine strands of wire. With all that said, Get Solid Plenum Rated Cat5 cable. Now for TV, there is 2 diff types of cable used, 1 spec for satalite, 1 fore regular cable. You'll have to look that up! -Jason | ||
| Reepicheep |
http://www.dalco.com/moreinfo.cfm?&Product_ID=581448 This is a shop right down the street from me. That is a decent price (last I checked) for 1000' of wire, the crimp tool, a tester, and even the RJ45 jacks as I recall. Wire it up in a star, not daisy chain. That is you have a single wire from every jack back to a central point. It's not much worse to run, and gives you ultimate flexibililty. Just get the wires in and leave them marked on the central point as to which room they go to, and hanging at a convenient point somewhere where you will be putting your main network switch, usually the basement. I would just leave them hanging and hook them up as necessary as I use them. People used to use hubs, but switches are better and are not much more expensive anymore. Plenum stuff is nice, but expensive (last I checked). If your house is burning down, you will have plenty of toxic chemicals with or without plenum rated cable. Also note that wireless is getting pretty mature, so one could make a good argument for skipping the whole wired approach all together. It won't be as fast, and it won't be as secure, and it won't be as reliable though. Heck, wireless is still probably more expensive as well. I believe the satellite cable is just a beefier version of the cable cable, so if you run it you should be good for either. But last time I checked satellite, they had warnings about having more then 100' of cable between the dish and the receiver, so again I would probably run the cables in a star (not daisy chain) to the rooms where a dish receiver is likely to be located, and just hook up the ones you need as you need them. You can skip the nice punchdown board if you want, and just crimp the connectors on the end and run them direct to your switch. Thats what I did. The punchdown boards are nice for corporate / complicated setups to be able to redirect different groups to different switches, but is probably overkill for the basic home setup. Just get the wires in, in a star pattern while the walls are apart, thats the hard part, you can get as fancy as you want later. Leave some extra length and put on the crimp on connectors, and run them directly into your switch. I have the wiring diagram for the connectors if you need it, but it probably will come with your crimp tool. Lots of people just wire up the connectors in whatever pattern is convenient (making sure it matches on both ends), but I have seen flakey performance that way. Hooking them up according to the spec (which hooks up things in an odd order) has worked better for me. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Henrik, Bill is on the right track. You want all the cables from each room to run to a central location. Each room should have a minumum of 2 Cat5 runs AND a RG6 coax for cable TV. You can use the Cat5 for phone also. I ran 4 Cat5's to my office area and 2 coax's. Along with 2 more Cat5 for phone. I ran 2 Cat5 runs into the family room along with coax. Bedrooms got 1 coax, 1 data, 1 phone. My son put in a 4 port switch in his room so he could run more than one PC. I terminated the Cat5 into a small patch panel but if I did it again, I'd just put ends on them and go directly into the switch. Don't go cheap on the coax, lots of different grade RG6. What ever you do, dont use the older TV type coax (RG59?). It's worth picking up or borrowing a good coax tool. If you can, get the compression type ends, not the crimp type. Don't bother with the twist on ends. They will cause problems down the road. A good compression tool will be around $100-$150. The ends are about $.75 each. Home Depot sells Leviton wall plates and connectors. The plates are modular so you can put what ever type connector you want in a single plate. They work pretty well. You can put up to six jacks in one plate. I did 4 Cat5, 1 Cat3 (for the phone) and 1 coax in a single outlet space. Here's a link to Leviton http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/wallplateshousings/default.asp I have my cable modem in my office along with my router/switch. That way I can see what's going on if there are problems. All the stuff in the office plugs into the router, I have a connection form the router to the utility room where I have a 4 port switch for the rest of the house. Lots of different ways to do it! I have wireless also but don't use it much except for my laptop. Brad | ||
| Csg_inc |
Henrik Just another point. Do not run the communication wires in the same stud space as the electrical wiring and on your overhead runs always cross electrical power lines at 90 degrees do not run them parallel or you will get em interference. DAVE | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Wireless, Wireless, Wireless But if your tore out to the studs run wire while its all exposed. | ||
| M1combat |
You may want to use Cat 5E instead of Cat 5. I have never checked prices but Cat 5E will give you the ability to use gigabit ethernet as opposed to just hundred mega bit. For a home PC where you may be storing files on another PC it's a good idea. Also, get switches as opposed to a "hub". They are close in price as I recall and save a lot of traffic with some types of transfers. Most PC's sold today have gigabit ethernet built in, and it will all work at 100Mb. | ||
| M1combat |
I still won't take the wireless plunge... It just doesn't "feel" safe to me... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Wireless is fine if you set it up correctly. WEP, rotate keys etc. AND if you stay within range. (sometimes only 50' or less if you have walls in the way). Most cable you buy now is Cat5E. Last time I bought cable at Home Depot it was 5E. I usually buy it at a wiring supplier but I need some on a Sunday. M1's right about the swtich vs hub. Actually, I'm not sure you can even buy a hub anymore. An unmanaged 8 port is less than $100.00 anyway. 4 porters are less than $50. | ||
| M1combat |
I agree that it's fine if you set it up correctly, I just don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling... | ||
| M2me |
Geez, you guys are really anal about this stuff! I just went out and bought a 100 ft. ethernet patch cable for all my network needs. I've got a 4 port 10/100 switch in the back bedroom hooked up to a DSL router, an old Win98 machine and a Linux machine. I just run the 100 ft. patch cable along the floor to my laptop and I'm all set. Of course I'm single and live in a two bedroom condo. If I was married and living in a house my wife would probably have a fit over that cable running along the floor! Doesn't bother me though!  I thought about going wireless but it does add up to more money. The laptop has 10/100 ethernet built-in and ethernet cards are a dime a dozen for desktops. | ||
| Andys |
Henrik, Wow! These guys are awesome with the info. All I can add is to not to cheat yourself. Think outside the box a bit and try to plan for 5 to 7 years down the road as the electronic industry advances. Example: I hear that the flat screen TV market is about to explode with multiple factories being built in China. So although the price may be too high for you now, they might come down in price enough in say, 5 years. So maybe you'll want to consider cabling a wall so that a flat screen can easily be installed at a later date. May sound crazy, but this is your new home. One you'll be in for many years to come. Many years. Now is the time to set it up as you desire. Now is also the cheapest time to do it. Enjoy the work. And tell me if I can be of any help. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
A bunch of good info -- for sure! There's a product on the market called UltraHome cable that has one large jacketed product which contains, in multiple variations, everything you need. Right up to and including fiber to the desktop if you're so inclined. The problem you'll have is the quantity you'll need. It's probably not available in the sub 1000ft runs. Wireless has left its infant stage and it's maturing nicely. WEP, key rotation, proactive IDS, precludes the Wardrivers you hear about. Some most basic precautions will tighten you up nicely. Greg | ||
| Blackbelt |
OK i do this for a living. it isn't all too hard, just get the correct cabling CAT. 5E to CAT 6 is standard now. get good wall jacks, and make sure you use the same color code for every jack, or else your Pairs (groups of wires) will be bass-akwards, and you will get zero signal. Make sure you run the cable AWAY from power, cause power cable will dissrupt the signal traveling through the network cable.... that is my 2 Cents worth | ||
| Josh_ |
Henrik, go wireless and I'll help you set it up correctly. MAC filtering, WEP, no SSID broadcast... | ||
| Xb9er |
Wireless makes me nervous although I'm sure it's my paranoia and my worries are unwarranted. Anyway, I just finished cabling my home the hard way (routing through walls, drilling holes in floors and floor joists, etc.). It wan't as hard as I thought it would be. I used CAT 5e cabling and a Linksys router, and at the same time, I also added CATV outlets to some parts of the house that didn't get it when the place was built. I may have gotten a little carried away because I now have cabling to most rooms in the house including my deck and garage. I think it's great because I can now watch Speed, work on the bike and and be logged in to the BADWeb all at the same time!! Mike. | ||
| 02buells3t |
One comment from the BTDT file - make sure that your plugs and jacks are rated as high as your cable - had an issue a work once with a gigabit server connection, turned out they had used an older (CAT-3?) plug which was causing drops... | ||
| Josh_ |
I'd also run dual CATV cable to each location never know when you'll want dual tuners. | ||
| Fly |
For data, my vote is to go wireless. Once you roam the house, porch, yard and garage untethered, you will never think about plugging in again. Wireless is very convenient, with many inexpensive methods to secure it. | ||
| Henrik |
I just *Knew* that would bring the geek out in all of you  Thanks for all of your excellent advice - good stuff. So far my searches has produced the following initial plan; 1) hardwire everything in star pattern (I've read the term "Home Run" with a central hub in a closet and individual runs to each "drop." Since both phone and satellite TV is coming into the top floor, it'll be in the bedroom closet. 2) get a decent box with room for a 10/100Mb switch and a Satellite TV amplifier/splitter that I have already. 3) use good RG6 coax, quad shielded (the old standard was RG59) and Cat 5e twisted or bonded pair for network. 4) since I'm a belt-and-suspenders type of guy, I'll run back-up cables to most places; 2 Coax + 2 Cat 5e and then probably add Cat5 for phone service as well. 5) I've seen the multiple cables that BigDaddy mentioned, and they're about $.50/foot - but includes 2 coax, 2 Cat 5e and 1 or 2 Fibrechannel cables. I have no need for fibre at this point, but since the walls are open and I'm making the pulls anyway?? What do you think; fibre or no? Are there any terms/specifications for cable that is meant to be run inside walls? Some sort of UL specification? I've got the studs drilled up for power along the bottom of the walls, and will run the low voltage stuff along the top of the walls and then make the drops cross power lines at right angles. Does anyone have an idea of the optimal distance between power cables and low voltage when these run parallel? I'll also run some decent speaker wire within the living room, and from the living room to the kitchen for future sound distribution. I've heard good things about the Monster Standard cable; solid and well shielded?? What I'm still not quite sure of is how to manage the hub/central box. I've looked at all the nice Leviton plug-in modules with punch down, splitters, routers etc. etc. and it's likely more than I need (and can afford  ) at this point. So for now I'll most likely go with a standard networking switch, possibly something with a firewall for when/if we get DSL. I'll run satellite TV directly (via the hub) to my Tivo and use the splitter and a dual return run to the hub to send the Tivo output to 1 other location. I'm thinking that I can connect my phone service (a single line) in parallel to supply all the drops using a network cable of sorts?? some sort of screw-on or punch down connection would be nice centrally? I actually currently use wireless for my home internet connection, but the range *is* limited, and since I only have a dial-up connection, it's really more a comfort of being able to sit anywhere in the living room without needing wires. I would love to wire the garage also, but it's detached from the house, and there is no good way to make the run  Thanks again for all the advice. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Henrik | ||
| Kaudette |
Go wireless - there is 802.11G and with 54MB it is more than enough to do streaming video and all types of media - there's absolutely no need for fiber channel cabling as you will never have a fc connection in a home device - storage via iSCSI - NAS - is a much cheaper and easier to manage resource if you ever wanted to run stored DVD's across a network... For your garage, you can pick up a wireless bridge for ~100 usd that gives a strong and reliable connection to another 54MB access point over there - any dacent kit should give you 2 floors (3 if wood contruction) and about 100 feet of signal. All this will cost less than C5 cabling in the walls and before you know it your mobile phone will run across the wireless home network as well. HDTV will be coming across the net (DSL or metro ethernet) so plan on migrating all your media (music, video, etc), across an ip network. | ||
| Josh_ |
>I've heard good things about the Monster Standard cable; solid and well shielded?? As long as you use the right gauge for the run, any wire works fine for speakers. I've got test results somewhere where the used the same guage wire (ranging from .01/ft lamp cord to $25/ft exotic Monster stuff) and no tester or testing device could find a difference. That said, I buy and use Monster you ought to be able to pick up a spool online for much less than by-the-foot at the local store. >and a dual return run to the hub to send the Tivo output to 1 other location You'll run coax to the Tivo for the input, what will you use for the output? RCA/S-Video gives much better picture/sound than coax but you can't run it as far. (I think 50' for Svideo) >and there is no good way to make the run Buried conduit doesn't strike your fancy? | ||
| Hootowl |
If you're pulling wires anyway, I'd pull cat5 too, better yet, cat6. Fiber doesn't make sense in non industrial environments. Cat6 will run gigabit ethernet, so unless you're trying to compensate for emi, fiber is just more expense, not faster. The speed rating on wireless is a little misleading. 54 Mbps is actually 29 Mbps each way, and your actual throughput is usually half of that, or 14.5 Mbps, which is fine, as long as you don't need to move large files around you home network. Streaming media will work fine at that speed. Your Internet connection is only around 1.5 Mbps if you have cable, so the wireless will not be your bottleneck in that regard. But, cat6 is cheap, and if you're pulling RG6 anyway, you might as well run it. You asked about types of wiring, for wiring you're going to pull through studs, you should use riser cable, as it has a fiberglass strand inside it alongside the wires. Look for riser rated cable, and stay away from the "non-plenum" type cable. Jeff | ||
| Csg_inc |
Henrik One other add on...If the cost of the cable gets a little high for this phase. You can always run plastic conduit with a pull wire to every location you can think of and pull the wire later or pull out the old wire 5 years down the road with new better whatever is the current standard of the day. Loads of ways to skin a cat. DAVE | ||
| Henrik |
More answers, begging more questions I will incorporate wireless, but will likely run an old Mac as a server for music etc. And while I'm running coax it'd make no difference (other than price ) running ethernet cable as well. Josh; you're right about the Tivo video quality via coax. But I've read that you can run S-video over dual coax. Also, you can now share programming between 2 Tivo units via Ethernet - of course not DirecTV but it may come later. buried conduit doesn't strike your fancy? The backyard is all concrete - so, uhhh ... no Speaking of cable quality; So for in-wall installation Plenum is the way to go? Does Plenum indicate a special outer insulation? Other than noxious fumes in case of fire - is Plenum more wear resistant? Other benefits? Building code? ... 'cause that Plenum stuff is expensive - to the tune of 5-6 times standard Cat 5e - and very few places carry it. Also, Cat 5e/Cat 6 comes in shielded and non-shielded versions. Shielding sounds like a good thing, but is it necessary in my non-industrial, home noise environment? That said, my Gigabit network at work runs fine over long runs of in-wall Cat 5e. I read somewhere that Cat 6 cable is more brittle than Cat 5e, and therefore more tricky to run - be careful around kinks and such? Thanks again Henrik Multi-cable link . Made by West Penn Cable specifically for home in-wall wiring. | ||
| Henrik |
Dave; conduit sounds nice, but now that the framing is up, can I still run it? Is it some sort of flexi-hose? How big a diameter in order to be able to do the pulls - figure 2 coax, 2 network, 2 extra network/phone? Thanks Henrik | ||
| Hans |
 Some thoughts: Have the power lines in one room over different circuit breakers: Will you not leave in complete darkness at a short. Try accessible cable gutters: You can`t foresee everything: Extra line for the door bell which you can`t hear in the garage, TV door watch or camera system, lines for a future (fire) alarm system. Keeping things simple and cabled decreases the chances for failures. There are some well proven habits for power lines: I don`t know them, but one is to keep them low as possible (beneath the floor) or in the ceiling but always horizontal: to rise (or sink) them vertically for the wall plugs. Never take queer shortcuts. Another thing: Small cables (ethernet) you can pull through small holes made by a small drill bit with an extremely long shaft, specially for that purpose. Good luck. Hans | ||
| Hootowl |
There is actually no such thing as cat5e. It was a "not officially adopted" "standard" that became cat6, which IS a standard, so gigabit will run on cat5e, because 5e and 6 are almost the same thing. I bought plenum cable for my house and it seems like it was 7 cents a foot, just a penny more than non plenum. Got it at Lowes, but Home Depot etc all carry the same crap. You do not HAVE to use plenum cable. It's just a little tougher. The wires in the cable are twisted JUST so, and pulling on them may upset the number of windings/foot. It'll still work, but you may not get the max rated speed. The fiberglass strand helps to keep the cable from stretching when you're pulling it. It's really only required when making vertical runs between floors in multi story buildings, so I suppose if you're careful, you can get away with using non plenum, just don't heave on it too hard. Jeff | ||
| Josh_ |
>Does Plenum indicate a special outer insulation yes. I ran network cabling for several years and only used plenum where the fire code required (usually through a firewall). I never installed sheilded tho I supported sheilded twinax and shield TP for TokenRing. You can use PVC pipe or specific metal tube conduit, I prefer to do just one run vertically - ie from where the cable enters the house to the roof or the network closet to the roof. It saves time when the new standards come out and you need a new wire run. That said I run wireless networking and doorbells plus have a condenser? to combine DirectTV and cable signals (local channels) over one coax plus I ran surround sound wires run under the carpet. Can you tell I didn't wire my house? | ||
| Csg_inc |
Henrik Yes around here it is a "Battle Blue" color most people use 3/4". Looks like the GM wire wrap but not slit just corregated very flexable they use wire tie style zip ties screwed to the studs to secure it. DAVE | ||
| Henrik |
This may be something entirely different, but look at this page - the last listing on the page is Cat 5e UTP Plenum at $346/1000 feet compared to Bill's link, which listed Cat 5e UTP plus tools and 100 plugs for $39.99. What am I missing? Henrik | ||
| Reepicheep |
You are missing a hell of a good deal Don't forget the tester, it includes that also! The plenum stuff is made to run in the heating ducts to retrofit into old buildings where you don't want to tear up the walls. It has all sorts of UL burdens it has to meet, and there are all sorts of exposed screws and other sharp bits they have to withstand. Its expensive stuff, and unnecessary for what you need. You just need riser rated, which is what that stuff is in the link I posted. It's a screaming good deal. When I saw that deal at Dalco (posted above), I did a slow burn. I paid more for just my crimp tool then for that whole kit. I have paid close to 34 cents a foot (the price you quoted above) for cat5 in a pinch. They are primarily a mail order place, that just happens to be located down the street with a tiny store front on some HUGE warehouse. That's handy if anyone wants to mail order, as I can go yell at them if things go badly (though they have always been great, I have bought a bunch of computer stuff from them). edited by reepicheep on April 03, 2004 |
