| Author | Message | ||
     Spike |
For perspective, this chart compares a stock 1125R to a lightly modified XB12 (XB9 pistons, Micron pipe, K&N filter):  If they could offer the first ~8k rpm of the 1125R powerband in a lighter-flywheeled air-cooled engine with zero valve adjustments I'd be all over it. I like the power delivery of the Helicon, but that is not the engine for me. The exhaust note is rather tame, the engine itself makes a lot of clackety-clack noises, it vibrates in a "busy" manner despite 3 counterbalancers, it's really thirsty and it requires more maintenance than an XB engine. On top of that, it's not very nice to look at. I realize that sounds more than a little persnickety, but I guess I've gotten spoiled. With all this modern technology at our disposal I want more from an engine than numbers on a dyno, I want the engine to be low maintenance and aesthetically pleasing. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"I like the power delivery of the Helicon, but that is not the engine for me. The exhaust note is rather tame," You've obviously not heard the D&D on an 1125. I followed GeForce's D&D equipped 1125 to homecoming and just couldn't stop giggling in my helmet. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
he fired it up in the parking lot and everybody ran to it. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
So we built a Rev Perf 90 inch kitted engine for an 05 XB12R using a Micron exhaust for the street. It made 118 hp and 109 ft/lbs of TQ, before we bumped the rev limit and ended up with runs between 126 and 131, TQ stayed the same. The same Cyl and pistons in an M-2 using Rev Perf Stg-2 heads and a re-jetted C/V carb. made 97 hp and 109 TQ. What I am saying is, all I need the BMC to do is keep updating the current things like DDFI-3, the TP sensor, fuel pump, oil system and such. I can take care of the bore, stroke within the limits of the cases and what the customer wants to do with the bike. So new design for me, Yes lets make it a water cooled 72 degree V twin in about three different sizes. Oh let's add a super single to the list also. But in the mean time I like my 1250 kitted ULY and it's air cooled 115HP. Terry - www.jtsperformance.com | ||
| Spike |
Not in person, but I have heard it on video: It reminds me of the Force pipe for the XBs- menacing and angry, but way too loud. There's no way I can justify that much noise during a 6:30am commute. **Note to admin/mods: I'm unable to post post the following video either as a link or embedded using the youtube tag: (remove spaces) Blake fix.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGyYCveQHBM (Message edited by spike on August 14, 2009) (Message edited by blake on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Rick_a |
BMW has done some great things with some of their twins. Ducati's 1100 DS isn't much of a leap forward. The power levels aren't much more than the 90's 900's or even the 80's 750 F1's. They do have much better engine management and are a lot more reliable. Buell has been updating the engines regularly. I think most of the past issues and complaints have been resolved...save for that stock 100RWHP thing...but as Spike has demonstrated it's not too hard to get close. I've rode most every bike I've had an interest in these past several months...some are faster and/or smoother but none come close to the big torque stomp of the Buell and the grin that creates. (Message edited by Rick_A on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Patches |
need more power? Order Form Deposits to reserve your Roehr 1250SC are now being accepted. This $2000.00, non- refundable deposit will reserve your limited production Roehr Superbike on a first come/first serve basis. If you wish and are in the area you may test ride* the Roehr 1250sc in Califonia. Appointment required. http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"need more power?" I have no idea how he shoe-horned in a 200lb Revolution, but I asked for a factory tour to try to find out. Roehr is in Gurnee, Ill. 50k would get you 2 MV F4's. | ||
| Patches |
"50k would get you 2 MV F4's." I Agree With You 150 Percent! HP/Torque: 180hp @ 9100 RPM, 115 lb/ft torque @ 7600 RPM Dry weight: 432 lbs. Interesting to look at though.  | ||
| Teddagreek |
The lump needs to go.... Crush it I dare you.... Stop the gimmicky advertising show us some "real ruthless engineering" 2009 1100 Ducati Monster...  | ||
| Blake |
If you don't see the Buell air-cooled engines as being improved significantly over the years, you've not been paying attention. I suspect that the O2 sensor added to the front cylinder will make a HUGE improvement to consistent and fueling and do away with any niggling little surge issue under low speed, low throttle operating scenarios (cruising). The engine upgrades in '08 were HUGE, straight from the XBRR. I have to say that I've yet to hit my rev limiter on my '09 Uly. That engine is amazing. At first I was a little underwhelmed that it didn't seem very smooth or pull too hard below 3K rpm. But GEEZE, not that I'm approaching 4K miles, the beast has emerged. It pulls hard all the way from a mere 2K rpm and runs smoothly down to that low engine speed as well. I'm very impressed. I haven't ridden an 1125 yet, but you won't ever persuade me that I don't want my air-cooled Buells. The bikes simply speak to me. Art on wheels and to borrow from Rick, an engine that stomps. | ||
| Patches |
2010 XB12 Peak Horsepower 103 hp at 6,800 rpm Peak Torque 84 ft-lb at 6,000 rpm is more than enough for the streets. Ease of maintenance, reliability and dependability is more important to me. Just my opinion. Plus it is American Made V-Twin. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Air heads rule!!!! But if given the chance, I'd race the wheels off an 1125r!! | ||
| Blake |
I like the suggestion that Buell incorporate another round of mass reduction by eliminating the primary drive chain in favor of a much more compactly integrated transmission and clutch including a direct gear drive primary. Wow, then the bike really would be as close to zero maintenance as you can get. | ||
| Patches |
"zero maintenance"  | ||
| Blake |
Twenty more HP wand a 9,000 rpm rev limit would be great too.  I really think that if Buell could produce a special edition engine model, that it would sell for a premium price. I'd have paid an extra $3K for a more beastly power plant, say a 1295cc over-square version of the XBRR mill that pumps out a reliable 125 RWHP. I have zero doubt that such an offering would be a grand slam home run. Ad the Ohlins suspension and lightweight CF and magnesium bits here and there, I'd pay another $3K. Imagine a Buell air-cooled XB1295, dry weight 370 LBs, 125 RWHP, Ohlins suspension, for just $15,995. Sweet. Sign me up! | ||
| Rex |
Blake I agree with that one. Buell has really kept alive the Sportster motor. So many improvements to that motor came from Buell Engineers. I wish I could put the new XB Buell motor in some of my tube frame bikes. That would last a while...REX | ||
| Socalbueller |
What I'd like to see updated is the transmission and get rid of that stupid primary chain. I sure that is sucking up a lot of horsepower whipping that chain through oil. The engine/trans could be more compact driving the trans how everybody else does it. Also down the line I am sure we will be seeing direct injection. That will offer a nice bump in hp, mpg, and reduced emissions. edit- posting at work makes you look a little slow. Surprised I agree with Blake on something. (Message edited by socalbueller on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Rick_a |
Seriously, have you guys ridden an 1100 Ducati? They are not that impressive. Smooth, linear power, sure. A Hypermotard with a slip-on did about 78hp and 65 ft-lbs on our dyno. In the Hyper the engine is very entertaining as it power wheelies effortlessly in first and second and is geared perfectly for it's intended use. In the other models it is far less entertaining. I love Ducati's, don't get me wrong...but just like Buell, the old 2V L-twin is more evolutionary than revolutionary.  | ||
| Froggy |
Make it even more 0 maintenance, give me a 80ft-lb electric motor. Change the tires once in a while and go! | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I have no doubt that the XB's have been improved, and it seems they've been refined more than I'd realised. I agree, a "premium" or "high output" XB would be something quite a few of us would seriously consider buying . I guess Buell could do it if they've got the resources free, but would they do it? "more compactly integrated transmission and clutch including a direct gear drive primary" What about belt primary? Or an intermediate gear between the crank and clutch which would keep crank rotation the same direction and still use a lot the existing tooling? "I've rode most every bike I've had an interest in these past several months...some are faster and/or smoother but none come close to the big torque stomp of the Buell and the grin that creates. " I'm building up a list of new or near new bikes I want to test ride in the next few months, something I haven't done in quite a few years. Hopefully this will help decide motorcycle purchasing plans for the next year or two, not confuse things! In that list I want to try and get a decent ride on an 1125CR, and I'll add an '09 XB to the list. (The alternative is upgrades to the X1 like Terry is talking about) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I agree, a "premium" or "high output" XB would be something quite a few of us would seriously consider buying . I guess Buell could do it if they've got the resources free, but would they do it?" Chili, without getting anybody into trouble or starting a pissing match.....Harley has cancelled major projects, projects 3 years out were cut, people are losing their jobs and HD is closing down plants. The Capt. Drive Sporty/T-Storm line is down for this entire quarter. You think Harley is going to start a Buell project before it settles its own mess? Any hopes of a new air-cooled won't be coming from Harley anytime soon I'm affraid. | ||
| Blake |
Good news! No one here is looking for "a new air-cooled". We're talking about the next evolution in the engine is all. We already have the XBRR and now the much improved 74 CI and 60 CI street bike engines. It's not much more of a leap to go a little more towards oversquare and implement a new transmission. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Any hopes of a new air-cooled won't be coming from Harley anytime soon I'm affraid Rotax..  Think modern Air Cooled V-twin... | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
When thinking about motorcycles I have a habit of forgetting about little things like global financial crisis...  "One of the greatest tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a gang of brutal facts." - Benjamin Franklin "Good news! No one here is looking for "a new air-cooled". We're talking about the next evolution in the engine is all." +1!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Harley engines continue to evolve. I suspect Buell engines will as well. The transmission was improved in 2006. I suspect we'll see additional improvements. More CCs would be a great place to start. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Good news! No one here is looking for "a new air-cooled". Really? "I really think that if Buell could produce a special edition engine model." Hmm. that's not new? Who's going to build this? Who's going to test it? Buell? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Fatty, Harley's compass isn't pointing in Buell's direction at this time. Harley isn't developing its own engines, how's Buell going to get an increased CC? Pretty easy to say.."hey we don't want anything new, we want revised"...same thing as saying "new" when it comes down to money with HD now. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Blake, shame on you.... You should know better. What you and others are asking for, would require a 'new' engine. TONS of engineering & R&D time. Just something that's NOT going to come out of HD anytime soon, or later for that matter IMHO. And Buell isn't even CLOSE to being equipped to do this by themselves. Buellinachinashop, as well as myself have many friends and family that work at HD. They are cutting back personnel and production to 1998 levels. I have friends that have been working there for nearly a decade that lost their job recently, and family member was offered early retirement The new HD CEO seems to think that HD has been changing "too fast and too often". So seeing even a slightly improved air cooled lump just isn't in the realm of possibility IMHO. I'd say the air cooled Buell days are numbered... Hopefully I am wrong. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly tool designer. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"and family member was offered early retirement." Harley's loss is my gain! More Coffee Smoothies for me! |
