| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
Things change. I make it a point that I will not post information I know is inaccurate. Also I won't post if I am not 100% sure on something. I can state facts on something should I get called out. I look back at some of my older posts that today I would never have posted. What was accurate then isn't now. To the best of our knowledge the bearings were fine a few years ago, with a few isolated failures. Then the failures became more and more frequent and patterns started to emerge, and then Buell investigated and resolved the issue. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The problem isn't whether dealers are willing to "deal". The problem is that some dealers have a hard time driving Buell traffic into the dealership. When a Harley customer comes to the dealership, they KNOW what brand they are looking for. When a Honda customer comes to a dealership, they know what brand they are looking for. How does a Harley dealership drive Buell customers into the dealership? We've discussed this at our dealership. We are working harder to have a presence at "bike nights". We are looking to have a sportbike "dyno day" at the dealership. I am working this weekend to hand out cards and chotchkies at the local track day. If a dealer sits by and passively displays bikes on the floor, their potential for moving those bikes is pretty low. These dealers who have stock on the floor don't have it necessarily because they refused to deal. They probably didn't have the traffic to even look at the bike let alone make a deal. With dealerships it isn't "if you build it they will come". You have to drive potential buyers to the dealership and then work through the buyers to expand the base of potential buyers through referrals. Harley sales is similar, but the need to drive customers the brand is less. Most people KNOW what a Harley is. Even if they don't know anything about motorcycles, they know what a Harley is. A dealer need to drive business to their particular location to buy, but they don't really need to explain what a Harley is. Buell is different. Many people have no experience with them. If a dealership fails to understand that driving Buell business is different than driving Harley business, they will more than likely fail at selling Buells. This brings us to the $8,000-$8,500 Buell. If you bought these Buells and have them sitting on the floor because you don't understand HOW to sell Buell, you haven't been able to move them. Now you have to sell them at a loss. Let's say this loss is SIGNIFICANT. Are you going to buy more of the next year's model? How many Harleys do you have to sell to break even on the loss from the Buells? Wouldn't you just say the heck with it and drop the Buell line? | ||
| F_skinner |
As John Q Public the question How does a Harley dealership drive Buell customers into the dealership? hits the money on the head. I know at least one person that sold his Buell because BRAG went away. I know others that sold their Buells because of various problems stemming from poor HD/Buell dealership service. What I would be interested to know is what brought them to the brand to begin with. I see what works at the dealerships I use and that is enthusiasm for the brand. It is contagious. But the sales people that are like that usually own the brand. There are many of us that moved up to a Buell from Harley for many different reasons and I think that could be one demographic that can be tapped. I only know what I see and when I drive 110 miles past three HD/Buell dealerships to buy from HCHD and that says a lot. I go to a Buell dealership were the sales guy knows more about the current models than I do. Knows who Erik Buell is and rides a Buell. I do not expect them to know anything about my vintage Buells but they do. Of course I am a Buell nut so the average person that maybe only just heard of Buell can get good information and a better understanding of what Buell is and more importantly what Buell is not. I have seen dealerships try to start sport bike nights without promoting any brand. Who usually shows up? HD riders. It is a strange hard nut to crack. We have a local Buell group but the dealership has not contacted us or even wants to contact us. A poor business decision to say the least but they have to allow time for the BMW Group, the Duc group and of course the Harley Group. I foresee them dropping Buell and it would please me. I do not know the answer but I bet a few people on this site that are successful in Buell sales can shed some light. It is not a cookie cutter solution. Good luck Mr. Ft_bstrd, if you find a winning solution please share it. I am sure your enthusiasm for the brand will show through to your customers. I could not deal with the people that come into a dealership but then I am not a "people person". Frank | ||
| Iamike |
It sure doesn't help when they have salesmen that say "I don't know sh_t about those Buells" like I have at 2 different dealers. I was looking for a City X when they first came out and I had to beg the dealer to just look at it. He was more interested in selling me a V-Rod. Needless to say.... | ||
| F_skinner |
If I had a dealership and I wanted to target Buell sales I would first get in with the local Buell crowd. Study their riding habits and develop a tactical campaign to have a presence in their activities. I have noticed when there are a group of Buell riders there are usually a couple of different brands along with them. I think showing brand X rider at how cool Buell riders and dealers are would go a long way. How many brand X riders have any kind of relationship with their dealers? I do not know but think it might be a notch better than a Harley dealer that has Buells as a sideline. Hotdogs and free lunches do not do a lot for me but organized rides, tech help or seminars or getting to meet someone from Buell like EB would go a long way in my book. It is a delicate balance. A dealership cannot dictate to riders but can offer a lot in the way of help and organization skills. My 2 cents. I have no empirical data. After all I am just a S2 guy. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Two months ago, I knew jack squat about Harley Davidsons. I learned. I took an interest. Sales people who know nothing about Buells have elected NOT to know anything about Buells. I have never ridden a single Harley Davidson motorcycle. I have hold one myself and have helped sell at least 5 others while the "Harley sales guy" was wrapping up another deal. One of these days I'll actually have to ride one of the Harleys. The people who buy them seem to like them.  (Heard the same thing from a "Harley guy".) | ||
| Tnxbrider |
how does Friday sound for riding your first H-D Mr.Bastard? Would you prefer 10:30 or 11:00 AM? T | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You got one I can ride? I've actually ridden a 2006 EG (a couple years ago) around a parking lot, but I've never ridden one on the street. I hear Harleys are fun. VROD? (Message edited by ft_bstrd on August 06, 2009) | ||
| Cyclonedon |
One of these days I'll actually have to ride one of the Harleys. The people who buy them seem to like them. take a Road King! I sit on one today at the dealers and it feels good for a large heavy motorcycle and you can remove the windshield very easily too! That would be the Harley I would like to buy. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I actually have been lusting after a red and tan Deluxe. Man those are beautiful! | ||
| Froggy |
I am so glad my boss doesn't post on here! | ||
| Tnxbrider |
We are going to work all the way thru the whole fam damily... both families HD and Buell. Make no pre-judgements I think you will be quite impressed. Happy Friday! I'll expect to see your reviews posted out here throughout the weekend. T | ||
| Ratbuell |
It is hard to sell Buells out of a HD dealership. As noted above, HD buyers are there because they want a HD. The *only* pieces to the "sales process" (and here's where I get myself into a boatload of trouble...) are the following: Which model do you want? What color? How much chrome? How loud do you want the exhaust? How do you want to pay for it? Challenging stuff. Definitely not NASA-grade complexity. Buell buyers? At least first timers...could care LESS who's name is on the airbox. They want the bike to DO something. Whatever it is, it has to perform a function in their life (other than telling their friends how cool they are for owning it). Harley salespeople - for the most part - have a hard time with that. Empirical data? Personal experience? Actual RIDING? More than just "my buddy says"? Whoa....what do we do now? Even if a salesperson "gets it"...it's hard to get management to step behind them because of sheer numbers. Hundreds of HDs go out a door for every Buell. Most management is...well, management. They look at dollars and cents instead of motorcycles, despite how much of a "biker" they may have been in the past. This is NOT to say that we're all losers. Some of us out there DO care. We DO get it. Buyers DO matter. But it's not a wink-and-wiggle-your-nose-to-make-everything-OK solution. Unfortunately, that also goes towards getting Buell salespeople into rides, and events. "what? You can't go *out*, you need to stay here for when the customers come in...". Um...the customers are out *riding*....and I should join them. And not just because I'd rather be riding one of my Buells instead of a desk chair. It's like when I nearly died last year. Everyone can tell me how tough it would be to pull through and put my life back in order. Everyone can tell me to learn from "their" experiences. Never bought it. Not a word. Got sick of hearing about it, actually. Then, I had to go and DO it. Now? Ahhh. I *get* it now. It really *does* suck. (And for those of you wondering? DON'T do it. Trust me.) Same thing with Buells. Tell tell tell till you're blue in the face and you get a blank stare. Go and *do*? Problem solved, mystique understood. I can't name exactly off the top of my head how many I've sold this year because we rent a Uly...but I can name at least three right now. For a bike that's been in service for less than four months. I can talk a damn good game...but not nearly as well as 24 hours ON the bike can speak. Buyers who want something for free? They can kiss my ass and the hot dogs are in the lounge. It's a TOY; a luxury item. If the economy's that bad, go stand in line for soup. Buyers who want a bike because they want to *ride*? What color would you like, and when would you like to take a demo?  | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I took my 2006 Uly into the dealer today to get the rear bearings replaced. I waited for the service and was there a couple of hours watching different customers come in and look at motorcycles. They all wanted to look at Harleys. The dealer had 7 new Buells on the floor and NOBODY even gave one a second look as they walked by them. I was sitting on them and could hear their conservations as they were asking about the Harleys! Buell is a totally different motorcycle style for the average Harley rider and that makes them harder to sell. Back in 1998 when I first sit foot in the dealership, I WANTED to buy a Harley but the dealer didn't have any new ones available. He had several new Buells and after talking to Keith for awhile, he convinced me to take a test drive on a Buell. I didn't drive that thing a mile before I knew I was going to purchase one, and I did! as I got older, I no longer was comfortable on my 1998 M2 Cyclone, I once again started looking to trade for a new motorcycle. I was leaning towards the BMW. I once again was talking to Keith and telling him this, he told me to wait because Buell was going to introduce a new motorcycle and he said he had ridden it and knew I would like it. That turned out to be the Ulysses and I did purchase one. I feel to successfully sell motorcycles, you have to get people to test drive them. I'm just hoping that by discontinuing the Blast, it won't detour the younger crowd from riding a Buell. If the average young rider doesn't have a entry level motorcycle that they can feel comfortable on to learn to ride, them brand may loose a future motorcycle customer. I learned to ride on a Bridgestone 60 back in the 60's. It was small and easy to learn on. | ||
| Slipknot |
You want to have a Buell ride, track day, back roads exploration or whatever and end at the dealership after 50-120 miles or so to have a bar-b-que, tech session, oil changes, tire changes (all brands, special rates, bullshit, campout, beer fest, lap dancers, and of course, demo rides for at least 20-25 miles etc. And the rules: Buell or any other sport bike brands, NO cruisers, NO HOGS. And recruit Buell sales staff from the most dedicated by listening and watching who gets other riders interested. The sales force should be pruned of the hog only sales staff and set limits on how many hog sales are allowed until a Buell sales quota is met. Make the sales staff learn the bikes, ride the bikes and get the traffic on the bikes. At the special events for metric and Buell riders you absolutely must ensure that no one has to even look at, talk with, or acknowledge any cruiser riders, especially the hardley riders. Cruisers are not invited. It must be exclusive to get the message across that the Buell and sport riders are special and valued. The hog riders are the number one problem followed closely by the dealerships and sales force. Make it non poser night. Anyone thinking they will succeed at bringing in substantial sales prospects from the metric riders while the cruisers are in control is way out in left field. I don't have to list the attitudes, remarks and bullshit lines so many of us hear from the hog riders. But that is the main problem. And slow, ponderous machines give a black eye to Buells. Like any advertising it needs to be frequent. Start small and build the event around suggestions and interests of those who show up and get responses from those who do not show as to why they did not come. Keep reaching out, take Buell demos to any event where someone can ride one down a twisty road. Take a demo crew to non-motorcycle events. It works. Bob's BMW was very successful with this angle. They set up large displays with 20 or so bikes at boat shows and car shows in Baltimore. They sold bikes. In the middle of snow storms in winter. If Keith Code or some other training school can be brought into the area, provide some demo bikes so riders can get better and ride away comparing the Buell to what they came in on. Buells are so easy to ride on a track they will feel more confident about buying one at the end of a track day. People tend to buy more of what they can try out. How many times have we read someone bought the BMW sport touring bike instead of the FJR, ST1300 C14, etc., because they could not test ride the others? It is significant and those new customers bring in others. In the parts department special prices on tires for any metric bike, and a forced demo ride while the tire is mounted, if not on the bike, then on the rim brought in. Get them in with specials of leathers, oils, anything. And have demos ready to go. One more thing. When someone comes in that even remotely looks interested in a Buell, or on a metric, or simply does not look like a dew rag head, there should be a rule that that person is greeted within 30 seconds, is given an introduction to the brand, a tour of the shop and contact information is gathered. Plant the seed in their heads that they are more valuable than any other customer. Just some ideas that work with other products and other brands of bikes. But none of this will work unless the owner/managers really want to work. If they will, sales will grow. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
great post Ratbuell! also the price of a Buell is higher than the Japan metric bikes for the younger crowd, I know because when I was that age I bought either Suzuki's or Kawasaki's. Now don't get me wrong here because I wouldn't ever buy another foreign motorcycle again and I actually don't think Buells are overpriced for what your getting but the younger generation just don't think like me! But I did like that Road King I sat on today! Sorry Buell, I'm just getting older and losing my sportbike appeal. | ||
| F_skinner |
I would buy a bike from you Joe. I already have my next bike picked out. I think all of you are right on the money. We need a Buell buy back from HD. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The biggest hook, honestly, is that Buell actually WANTS people to test ride their bikes. They are very shocked. I sold the last of the 2008s to a guy who was pissed that the dealer across the road wouldn't let him test ride a USED 'Busa. He got on his bike, crossed the street, and met me. He said, "I'm interested in looking at the Buells." My reply, "looking is fine but let's take a test ride." He said, "You guys will let me test ride?" My reply, "Absolutely." He said, "I'd like to trade in my bike, but I can't do the deal if I can't get a decent trade in. Don't we need to see if we can work the numbers first." My reply. "The numbers won't matter if you don't like the bike. Let's go ride and then we can see if we can put the deal together." Off we went. I think many riders of other brands would like to test ride a Buell, they just don't know we will allow it and assume we don't. Enter bike night presence, track day presence, dyno day presence, etc. If I can get them ON a bike, I can get the bikes out the door. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
We are going to work all the way thru the whole fam damily... both families HD and Buell. Cool. Although the only Buells I haven't ridden are the Blast, your S1, and of course...ahem...your 1125RR. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Be careful on the Blast. I'm 6'4", 34" inseam, 36" arms. I LOVE the Blast. I look like I'm *wearing* it...but I LOVE riding it. Something about 360lbs and nearly 90 degrees of lock-to-lock steering....gets me all giddy! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
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| Ratbuell |
Yep. Das me! | ||
| Bbbob |
I worked 3 yrs at a HD/Buell dealer, & all the observations about Buell floor traffic by Ft & Ratbuell are true. Of the people that came into the dealer, talking about Buells to most customers is really a teaching experience for the salesman. Starting with "what's a Buell". I now work at a BMW/Ducati/Triumph dealer & a higher percentage of the people that come in looking at the Ducatis & the sportier Triumphs are familiar with Buells, many are big fans. It cracks me up when customers bring up comparisons between the Monster or Speed Triple to a Buell. I get more people here asking who owns the X1 in the parking lot vs the HD/Buell dealer where people shrugged it off as "Jap crap". | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I'm just hoping that by discontinuing the Blast, it won't detour the younger crowd from riding a Buell. Who every said that the BLAST was being discontinued??? The Blast is still going to be produced, It just wont have the "Buell" name on it anymore... | ||
| Sifo |
If I can get them ON a bike, I can get the bikes out the door.  The test ride sold me. Already had a Harley and was somewhat familiar with Buell. Talked to a salesman who specializes in Buell sales. He said all the right words, but words really don't sell bikes (at least not to me). Actually riding the bike convinced me that this was a bike I was happy with. They are the only dealer near me that allows test rides. If only they could get their service dept. up to speed. | ||
| F_skinner |
The test ride sold me. Already had a Harley and was somewhat familiar with Buell. Same here, I had a Harley and test rode a S1 in 1997 having read about Buell since I saw one in 1992. I left with it. I remember walking in and asking the sales guy about the Buell. I cannot remember what he said but he ended with "do you want to ride it". Damn him!!! (Message edited by f_skinner on August 07, 2009) | ||
| Ceejay |
Ft stated, He said, "I'd like to trade in my bike, but I can't do the deal if I can't get a decent trade in. Don't we need to see if we can work the numbers first." My reply. "The numbers won't matter if you don't like the bike. Let's go ride and then we can see if we can put the deal together." That goes a long way. I've bought two fairly expensive cars from the same salesman for the very same sentiment, very nearly the same statement. In the end you don't buy a sales tag, you buy a bike that you hopefully enjoy riding... | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I have always wanted to jump ship and go work for the local dealer and be the "Buell Guy" I'd wanna do it all... sales, parts, clothing... the whole 9 yards.... | ||
| 86129squids |
+1- Ft B, Rat, Slipk... Test riding is critical. Wading through the general ignorance (HD vs BUELL) is step 1, then wading through the specific ignorance (BUELL vs ricers) is step 2. Pop the surprise test ride offer, then work your prospect. Jeremy, I really appreciate your post on the guy with the rice trade-in. Been there, done that plenty-o-times. Makes me wistful of the times I had on the front lines promoting the brand, differentiating Buell from everything else. But only for a moment... having left your line of work, I can say that I got burned out. Rediscovered my older and best talent set and got back to work in a different kind of "sales", found that I'm much better at restaurant work (sales after all) than I was selling bikes. That said, my hat's off to all you peeps still in the bike sales biz- keep on keepin on. All the great observations have made this thread a whole lot more than it started out to be. Obviously, youn's HAVE "leaned" a thing or two...  | ||
| 86129squids |
One more thing- Jeremy, having Tom for a boss is a blessing. Hope youn's have a good day test riding the various bikes... "We are going to work all the way thru the whole fam damily... both families HD and Buell. Make no pre-judgements I think you will be quite impressed. Happy Friday! I'll expect to see your reviews posted out here throughout the weekend. " Fats, you do realize this means riding more than 30 different models and THEN writing about them? Geez, sounds like mixing an Iron Butt with a game of musical chairs... BTW, as much as you lust after the Deluxe, leave it be- it has nowhere near the lean angles you're accustomed to. Plus you'd kill the suspension in no time. Most of the HD bikes have a lot more rubber than they do lean angle- BE CAREFUL of that until you get the hang of a Hog. OTOH, if someone trades in an older FXDX (Dyna Sport) or FXDS (Dyna Convertible, hopefully with the Sport suspension), give it the hairy eyeball. Those are great bikes, with the sport suspension you can set them up to handle well, and they can be had for good $$$. The well-outfitted Convertible should have a nice windshield and detachable soft luggage- I miss those models in the lineup. Have fun, fellas, and TURD (Tank Up Rubber Down)... |
