| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
I ride carb'd myself so I've probably got the terms mixed up all the time, but regardless I still had a thought.... Just how hard is it to reset the XB and 'tuber FI brains? It sounds like it's just basically a plug and play deal. Plug the bike into the computer and hit the button to reset the system. With that in mind, would it even be remotely feasible for a dealership to set up a self-service type of station, sort of like gas station air pumps where you plug in a quarter or two and get enough air to pump up 1.5 tires. 1. Wheel your mis-running bike up to the dealership self-service portal. 2. Plug the dangling cord into your bike's receptacle. 3. Insert a few quarters to activate the keyboard. 4. Enter the year and model of bike. 5. Hit the enter key. 6. Unplug the bike and go for a ride. If it's as simple as people have made it out to sound, then exactly why wouldn't this idea work? A TPS Reset Kiosk. Shoot, I could probably set up a traveling Kiosk Reset booth at all the bike events and make a fair living at this if it's feasible. If anybody takes this idea and turns it into a reality then please just send me a portion of the profits and I can retire early. Just a thought, and the major issues that still keeps me carb'd. Well, that and wheelbase and fuel capacity. Okay, pile on, I'll go hide now.  | ||
| M1combat |
It seems to me that the actual "reset" portion should be just about that easy. I think the main difficulty is the fact that the ECM reports the angle of the throttle after words so you can get the idle pretty close (8 degrees is correct I think) before you start it. As far as just plugging into a "kiosk" as such, you would have to back out your idle screw all the way first, snap the throttle a few times to make sure it's closed all the way, and then hook it up and do the reset. A while back I was thinking about trying to convince the proud owner of a Digital Technician to let me hook a laptop up in-line and record the conversation between a bike and the DT so that the exchange could be programmed into an IC that could then be placed in a "black box" so you could just hook up the black box, back out the idle screw, snap the throttle closed, hit a button and reset your idle and be on your way. The thing that this wouldn't accomplish is telling you when to replace the throttle body. Theoretically when the TP is at 0 degrees you can get a reading from the ECM and it needs to be at a certain spec or you are supposed to replace the throttle body. My "GUESS" is that the DT tells the ECM to go into certain modes of operation and that what comes across those wires is dependent opun what mode the ECM has been told to be in. That's why recording the conversation for a standard TPS reset would be , IMO, the way to go. The problem is finding someone who has forked out a ton of money for a DT that will let some geek play with it and possibly ruining their relationship with Buell. I agree though, we NEED a solution. Just ask Fullpower. He's got to travel a long ways to get the TPS reset on his bike and quite frankly it pisses me off a little bit. I bought the Buell because I knew I could work on it. I guess I can throw that idea right the $&%^ out the window... What's my next bike going to be??? Well, PROBABLY a Buell... If anything I think that the dealers should realize the problem us customers have and do resets VERY cheap until Erik (or whoever is responsible) decides to fix the issue. I wouldn't even mind an '05 ECM that solves the issue that can be put on an '04 bike. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
MikeJ....$1000+ per month lease of the software from HD to tap into the ECM... | ||
| Captainplanet |
M1, I agree it would be nice to have a tool to do the reset when needed. But it really isn't needed very often once it is set up right. If you don't remove the tp sensor or change computers, the only reason you really need to reset it is if your throttle body wears so much that it effects readings. I can't imagine that happens unless you have some unusual wear in the TB. That said, if anyone could make an inexpensive one, I would probably still buy it, just so I could do all the work on my bike myself. | ||
| Blackbelt |
DAMN | ||
| Bomber |
yet another reason my scoots all have carbs . . . . . sheeesh | ||
| Mikej |
Wycked, That, as they say, is the deal killer. That's more than we pay for our CAD system software. Okay, on to plan 1,298,734. | ||
| M1combat |
Captain.. Agreed. It just ticks me off that I have a bike that I can't work on. Why should I need to take it to a dealer after having it Nallinized? What if I had a race ECM and was anal about not using the race ECM on the street? What if I want/need to pull the heads for a simple valve job or something? It's just not right. The reason I decided not to buy a 749 is because I knew that the Buell engine was easy to work on, low maintenance etc... After I buy it I learn that there is an issue that REQUIRES dealer attention. Fuck that. At least make the software buyable in a poor mans price range. I already spent a good deal of money for a bike that arguably has less bang for the buck than a Japanese bike (OK, a LOT less). Don't get me wrong, I love my 12R more than enough to offset the issue. I'm NEAR perfectly happy with it. This is the only drawback IMO. | ||
| Captainplanet |
M1, Well, I may be wrong here, but I believe that if you have a race ecm that you have had the tps zeroed on and a stock ecm that you have also had the tps zeroed on (the same bike), that you should be able to switch them out without any further need for a reset. The setting is stored in each ecm. Doing the other motor work also should not cause you to need to reset the tps as long as you don't remove the tps from the tb. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
I have the same understanding as Captain Planet. If I were to put on the factory ECM that I just took off, I would assume it would be good to go. The throttle position sensor doesn't 'know' that the ECM has been changed, and the factory ECM doesn't 'know' that the bike isn't running. Resetting the TPS does seem easy enough, provided you have the electrical equipment to do it. But if Harley can charge 1/2 hour maintenance to do it ($45 or so), I don't see why they would be interested in cutting off that revenue to build kiosks. Don't bite the hand that feeds you! Mike M | ||
| M1combat |
The hand that feeds them are the "early adopters" that go Buell for a large price premium. IMO anyway. Captain - from what I have heard (I may be wrong) if you disconnect all power from an ECM long enough, you will need to reset the TPS. I think there was talk a while back of someone creating a small battery backup just for the TPS. Again, I could be (and probably am) wrong about that. I still say though, that the TPS reset function could be built into a black box that just replays an interaction between an ECM and a DT. everything from when you plug it in to telling the ECM to enter it's TPS reset mode to the reset. You would then have to adjust the idle back to the "starting point" of eight degrees (I'm pretty sure it was eight) and then start the bike and set it properly. I would imagine though that if one were to count the number of turns while they were backing out the idle screw they could get it back to being close enough. Again, it's not that I feel that the TPS will need to be reset often enough that it will be a hassle, just that I can't do it and if I ever need to I want to be able to. I can't imagine that it would have added much if any cost to the bike to make that software along with the proper plug available to the end user. I'm probably wrong about that too though  . | ||
| Captainplanet |
M1, Agreed, I want to be able to do anything I need to do to the bike on my own. Just for some thought. Since it is unlikely that the tps will get too far off, it might be easier to find a way to allow the tps to be rotated slightly in the tb to allow tuning. You could hook up a meter, turn it until you get in the correct voltage range, and snug it down. I have'nt really looked close enough at the sensor mounting to see if that would be possible. What you might run into there, is of course, range of movement issues. But essentially if this could be done for slight adjustments (tps not way out of range) then it would basically be a manual reset of the tps. Probably a bad idea, but since we are brainstorming here, I thought I would throw the idea in. | ||
| Hootowl |
That's how I adjust the TPS on my truck. I have an aftermarket Edelbrock/Weber EFI setup. There's a control pad that displays the throttle angle, and you just set it to 13 degrees at idle with 20% bypass air. The computer is just converting the voltage signal from the TPS into a degree measurement. I would think that if you measured your TPS voltage output right after a "by the book" reset, you could duplicate it later if you had to remove the TPS for whatever reason. | ||
| Mikej |
If you are forced to take a bike back to the dealership for service then you have just borrowed the bike, you don't own it. And in another few years when more of them become obsolete and the dealerships find it financially unfeasible to pay for the use fee for the software then you'll be up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle. Now, I wonder how hard it would be to convert the M2 to a magneto with a contact points distributor. (Just kidding, I think) | ||
| M1combat |
I made that suggestion in a thread a while back (or at least I thought about it, maybe I didn't post it...) and I haven't taken a look at the TB to see if this is possible. The thing is... The ECM doesn't code when the TPS is out of whack (I think) so I assume the ECM needs to be put into a "mode" where it reports a voltage based on the position. If not, I think that's a viable alternative AS LONG AS you can still get to full throttle after the modification (I would think you can). On a side note... anyone ever consider building a whatchamacallit (the butterfly valve thing in the throttle body) that doesn't have that ugly AND non aero friendly bar running across the back? Also... I can't believe whatchamacallit didn't trip the spell checker... | ||
| M1combat |
BTW - Blake - I understand this ought to be moved to the KV section, but that doesn't seem to see as much traffic. If you feel it should be moved though, please feel free . | ||
| Dyna |
I am so happy my HD has a 42 mikuni instead of FI. Runs great & never ever have to see the inside of a stealership. | ||
| Blackbelt |
blah blah blah.. go away dyna  | ||
| Dyna |
Your just jealous cause I can do my own tuneups  | ||
| Fatpony |
I haven't had any trouble out of my FI bikes or the original TPS resets on race ecms on either my 3 year old X1 or my 14 month old XB9R. I HAVE had trouble out of my carbed 03 Superglide only when I took it in for a "RECALL" due to some EPA bs. Ran like crap, coughing and hiccuping until the H-D tech redid what he had done. Ignorant me thought the recall made it run too lean. Whatever they put back fixed it. I guess the TPS stuff would be more of a pisser if they raped me ($), but both times I've needed a reset it was included with a routine service. Good relations with a great dealership with honest folks has made MY Buell experence wonderful. | ||
| M1combat |
Mine's been wonderful as well pony and so far the TPS checking Ive had has also been part of scheduled maintenance but one of these days... someone somewhere COUGH FULLPOWER COUGH will be very much helped by a clean and easy way to reset a TPS. Quite frankly, I probably will be as well. My trouble is whether or not a select few of the anonymous posters mind someone reverse engineering this. It's not that I don't want to be sued as I'm more of a handshake and a smile kind of guy anyway. I also don't really expect any anonymous poster to chime in and say go for it but I would love to know... | ||
| Darthane |
The solution to this is simple. Make a friend that works at a dealership. LOL | ||
| Mikej |
"Blake - I understand this ought to be moved to the KV section, but that doesn't seem to see as much traffic. If you feel it should be moved though, please feel free " M1, While it didn't really start out as a KV type of thread, it has become one, and that's okay. Lots on interesting info above. I still don't want a fuelli bike yet, but still interesting. And now I'll go stand at the window of the office area here and watch it snow. My workstation computer is broken again and I have nothing that I can do without it except surf the web all day with with Window-box and bother you folks. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Snow?! I'm looking out my office window at my X1 now - Low 80's, bright and sunny! Sure I can't afford a house here, but what the hell... Mike M | ||
| Bomber |
Mike if ya got a magneto, ya don't need a distributor . . . . also, you could adopt a Mag to your M2 fairly easily . . . . . except that it would interfere with the exhaust headers in their present site now, let me know you've got a way to easily run a 5speed kicker tranny, and we'll get to work rolling progress back a couple of decades at a time! | ||
| M1combat |
I want a five speed kicker transmission on my XB! Really... Six if you got one . | ||
| Blackbelt |
yeah make a friend at a dealership, that can get the Scanalizer.... which mine has optioned not to mess with it ever again, and with the situation, i tend to agree... | ||
| M1combat |
I think the Scanalizer will not work correctly on an XB... I think you need something called a Digital Technician. They could be one and the same though, I'm not certain. | ||
| Mikej |
Bomber, Ya know, I've been thinking about this some, and thinking back to the left-side kicker bikes I've had in years past. There is probably a way to rig up a left-side kickarm co-joined somehow to the starter drive region. Just thinkin' so far, not even to the napkin phase. And it would probably have to include a compression release and ignition retardation lest one revisit the concept of XLCH-Knee-Syndrome. And I'm rusty on the magnetos. Last one I saw up close was on a Shovel-Pan hardtail a friend used to have way back when. I'll stop steering the thread off topic now and wander down to the IT department to cause them a little grief for a bit. later.... | ||
| Bomber |
the mags fit on older sporties and XR750s come up from the top of te cam cover (geared off one of the cams, I believe) left side kicker would be fine (although right side ideal) . . .. .hmmmm . . .. got some gearing challenges to deal with using the starter rears, I'm thinkin . . . .. . not sure a compression release would be needed, but ignition retarding would be damn near mandatory | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
You could run the magneto off the oil pump skew gear and replace the oil pump with a jabsco electric one, alternatively a good old set of points should be able to fit in somewhere on the end of one of the cams, with a bit of bodgery. Meanwhile anyone got a cheap Mikuni for my M2 cos it coughs worse than me when I've got a cold.  | ||
| Blake |
Once set, the ECM will retain your bike's TPS zero position (throttle closed) reference voltage. It becomes part of the firmware. No power is required to maintain it. Bomber, Kickstart, heck yeah! |
