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Davefla
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 09:22 am: | 
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44. I finally read the BoB yesterday, and combined with remembrance of the Uly's release, it seems to me that the idea behind the new ad campaign is clear: It's no longer just us, the riders - BMC is going Duc hunting too.
IIRC, when the Uly was released there were some not-quite-explicit comparisons to a much heavier bike with a propeller logo. (Anyone else notice that Rider's 2009 "moto of the year" is the much-smaller-and-nimbler F800GS?) This year, EB has mentioned that Ducati's racing division has more employees than Buell. Then BoB brings the robots into it... I'm thinking that maybe H-D has finally seen fit to take the leash off the attack elves.
That's enough metaphor. I bought a 2000 Blast at age 35, based only on writeups and the fact that I'd wanted a 'big' single as my first street bike for twenty years. The trade-offs became evident in short order. I loved it for commuting, but the only time I came close to a "pucker moment" was when I took it on the expressway. For all that, it was easily the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. I can write that about my Blast only because my 2004 XB has blown a fuse on two occasions (for unknown reasons, and instantly fixed with a new fuse.)
My point is that advertising is about creating an idea in the public mind, whatever that is. It doesn't merit as much consideration as I give to design - which is far less than reliability, maintainability and fit. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 12:43 pm: |
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We should have a "ground rules for arguing about BoB".
1) Racing is a narrow subset of Sport Riding. Buell is focused on sport riding, which includes, but is not limited too, racing.
2) Sport Riding is more then a sport bike on a race track. It also includes a middleweight sporting twin naked standard on the Cherohola. It includes a Uly on a dirt road. God willing, it will include an enduro bike on single track.
3) A bike with a big motor and lousy suspension and brakes is NOT a sport bike (cough VMAX cough). A bike with a moderate motor and great brakes and great suspension *is* a sport bike (cough XB9SX cough).
4) Displacement is just one of many metrics that can be incorrectly applied to rank the "goodness" of motors of different configurations.
5) BoB is a story created to communicate an abstract marketing message. Its not completely true, but it's not completely astro turf either. Taking narrow literal passages out of context changes it's effect and can easily create erroneous conclusions. The ability to jump to a wrong conclusion is not something society typically values over the long term.
You don't have to accept these precepts, though doing so will make you sound less whiny and confused if you are trying to make a point.
There. Carry On.  |
Lizard
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 01:44 pm: |
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I am a Blast owner and I actually enjoyed the Blast Commercial. From what I can see the blast is still going to be available to purchase it just will come from the dealer with Buell stickers on them anymore. They are just trying to get people to realize that Buell is making great bikes to either ride on the street with, take touring or racing. The blast is a great bike but people laugh at it because its a 1-cylinder that doesn't have a whole lot of power when you think of a bike. But it is so cute and fun to ride...I have gotten mine up to 90 mph but its still not what you think about when you say street bike. I wish i could actually get one of the bikes Erik crushed and signed that would be awesome and treasured in the house with 3 Buells already and working on getting a 4th. |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 01:55 pm: |
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It is not the audience's responsibility to glean the correct message from an advertisement. It is the advertiser's responsibility to correctly present the message.
Reepi, I agree almost completely with your list except as follows. In my mind there is no such thing as a sportbike. Sport-riding can take place on any kinda bike. Sport is the action. The bike is the equipment. Ever seen those guys race mopeds? I've seen footage of badwebbers racing little 50cc bikes. I know guys race blast. What you have in reality are street bikes and track bikes (and offroad.) Each has advantages in it's own enviorment. There is some overlap of course. Sport can take place on any of those.
My only concern is that the focus will shift from excellent street bikes to excellent track bikes. Those are not mutually exclusive but are rarely the same thing. I can think of NO winning racebike that I would consider for MY street riding. I'm sure the 1125 is awesome. 146hp in a streetbike would be an absolute waste for me.
I'm not complaining and my panties really aren't in a bunch. (I'm a freeball kinda guy anyway.) I'm only pointing out that if the Buell lineup ever starts to resemble that of Hondasukiyama, ie trackbikes in street clothing, I will be left looking elsewhere.
(Message edited by mortarmanmike120 on July 29, 2009) |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 02:35 pm: |
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I'm not complaining and my panties really aren't in a bunch. (I'm a freeball kinda guy anyway.) I'm only pointing out that if the Buell lineup ever starts to resemble that of Hondasukiyama, ie trackbikes in street clothing, I will be left looking elsewhere.
Great way to put it. But it does seem as if the marketing (BOB) is indicating that Buell is going the way of DucHonYamSuzKaw and wants a big piece of the 20-30 year old squid market and not care so much about the "streetability" of their bikes cause in their words (or how I took what they said) bikes arent for sitting on and riding they're for hanging off going through the corners. Unfortunately that means they are moving in a different direction than me. When its time to retire my Uly I'd love the see the 1125 in some type of a sport touring configuration rather than a racing configuation. But like I said, based on the marketing hype this year, it appears that I will have to look elsewhere for that type of a bike when I'm ready to buy my next bike.
oh yea.... 40
(Message edited by sayitaintso on July 29, 2009) |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 02:55 pm: |
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Buell is a "sport" oriented company.
The primary purchaser of "sport" oriented bikes is the 20-30 year old market.
Buell's average market has been older than other "sport" oriented companies.
The 20-30 year old market tends to be more spec sheet conscious.
If you are going to fish in that pool, you have to be willing to use the bait those fish like.
Adequate engine with superior handling won't necessarily catch these fish. |
Rainman
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 02:59 pm: |
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That's true.
That being said, as long as there is a bike in the lineup that meets my requirements, and which I can afford, I will buy a Buell. |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 03:39 pm: |
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Quote from above "Great way to put it. But it does seem as if the marketing (BOB) is indicating that Buell is going the way of DucHonYamSuzKaw and wants a big piece of the 20-30 year old squid market and not care so much about the "streetability" of their bikes cause in their words (or how I took what they said) bikes arent for sitting on and riding they're for hanging off going through the corners. Unfortunately that means they are moving in a different direction than me."
A good point made and I can see how you feel as I also do not want to ride "a race only" type of sportbike like many of the Ducs are and for me I cannot see how anybody can ride an R1, ZX10, GSXR 1000 or anything similar to its potential on the street. I believe most true racers would never even attempt that. Repeat,(on the street)
With that said, even at my age I like the power, handling and mostly the absolutely great riding position of my 1125R which is unlike most in its sales range. Power is very controllable and goes to redline with no surprises. Handling is completely adequate for spirited street riding and an occasional track day. Its platform can act as a sport tourer when wanted. The 1125RR is getting real competitive every week for the serious racers. The age range you refer to will always be "spec sheet" buyers with few exceptions.
With all that said,(sorry about being long winded), I believe and hope BMC and Erik will continue to produce mainly bikes for SPORT RIDING ON THE STREET and what he always wanted, a truly competitive race bike like the 1125RR made possible from street bike sales. And I'm with what Rainman said. Bob |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 04:08 pm: |
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Crushing a Blast is a gimmick just like the stunt videos that used to be or still are on Buell's web site. Cheap tricks don't impress me nor do morons doing wheelies on interstate highways. Personally, I could care less if they crushed all their bikes. It's not going to affect my purchasing decision. Buell is in many ways like a teenager trying to find their identity and place in the world. I think the reason some are so dismayed by BOB and the crushing of the Blast is because they are older and wiser and like me, know BS marketing when we see it. Generally, with age, comes a refinement of one's self and an appreciation of the subtleties of things which is part of the allure of a Buell. Many of us are able to see past the spec sheet to reveal - the engineering - the dedication of the makers - the community - the plain oddness of the bikes and for us that is enough to fuel our passion for the brand. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 04:15 pm: |
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Old bastards generally don't buy "sport" bikes.
The marketing ISN'T for old bastards. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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<<< Is an old Blastard...and has no interest in a Geezer Glide...or a dirt bike. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 04:42 pm: |
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The marketing ISN'T for old bastards.
I know that, FT. Knowing that fact doesn't invalidate the emotions of those offended. Personally, I am NOT offended. I have never owned a Blast. However, I don't care for the new marketing approach. It's just an opinion - nothing more - nothing less. It wont stop me from purchasing a Buell nor will it encourage me to buy one. To those that seem to think it's bitching ( see open letter thread) - I'm not. The last time I checked this is a discussion board and differing viewpoints are being discussed. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 05:19 pm: |
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I know that, FT. Knowing that fact doesn't invalidate the emotions of those offended. Personally, I am NOT offended. I have never owned a Blast. However, I don't care for the new marketing approach. It's just an opinion - nothing more - nothing less. It wont stop me from purchasing a Buell nor will it encourage me to buy one. To those that seem to think it's bitching ( see open letter thread) - I'm not. The last time I checked this is a discussion board and differing viewpoints are being discussed.
Agree completely and I am in NO way sidelining your offense nor attempting to curtail your ability to express your opinion.
I was merely explaining MY OPINION on the marketing being targeted to the 20-30 crowd.
A sniper round can not also be a scatter shot.
Buell's new sniper round missed you. Buell's historical scatter shot hasn't, to date, been that effective.
They are taking a new path. The next round will be yours. |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 05:44 pm: |
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I hope next year's model change-up generates this much excitement since the world is gonna end in 2012.
Ft, both your fishing and sniper analogies fit quite well. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 05:46 pm: |
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Now if I could just snipe fish, my life would be complete. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 06:14 pm: |
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Ever been Snipe hunting?  |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 06:17 pm: |
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I live in TN, son. We INVENTED snipe hunting to entertain the "half-backs".  |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 11:08 pm: |
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On board a Carrier? - now that's fun!
and, what he said - lol
<<< Is an old Blastard...and has no interest in a Geezer Glide...or a dirt bike.
EZ
(Message edited by ezblast on July 29, 2009) |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
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I'm cornfused. I'm an old guy, I buy sportbikes (and dirtbikes and vintage bikes)... does I gots to be pissed off? |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 12:37 am: |
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Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 01:22 am: |
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The primary purchaser of "sport" oriented bikes is the 20-30 year old market.
FB, how is Buell going to compete with the much cheaper Japanese liter bikes for that age group? That is still an age where money is hard to come by.
At the Chicago IMS this last year they were selling brand new Busa's for under $8000.00. That is still the fastest motorcycle out there and it's priced far less than you can buy a Buell for.
Also did we do a age survey on Badweb about the age of Buell riders? And wasn't it in the late 40's? |
Pkforbes87
| | Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 05:19 am: |
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<- 22 years old and not all that interested in the high(er) HP helicon unless it's in an XT chassis (or similar)
"Adequate engine with superior handling won't necessarily catch these fish."
"The 20-30 year old market tends to be more spec sheet conscious."
"Displacement is just one of many metrics that can be incorrectly applied to rank the "goodness" of motors of different configurations."
All of these statements are VERY true, and are the reason I get so passionate yet frustrated when trying to explain Buell to one of my peers. It's impossible to explain to my age group that fastest does not mean highest top speed, most hp, or largest engine. I've been asked countless times how big the engine is in my X1, and I'm tempted to ask in return why it even matters! My 1250cc can't come close to competing with an I-4 of half it's displacement on Oklahoma roads, but WE'RE NOT COMPETING!!!
In all honesty, I think that the japanese produced sport bikes are "faster" in almost every way than Buells are. However, they are designed to be ridden on a RACEtrack and ridden by RACEers. Joe Doe can't use half of the potential of even a 600cc KaHoSuYa, and has a pretty good chance of dying if he/she tries to. Buell however is a moderately "fast" machine that is easy to ride at the rider's limits. I have done a lot of stupid sh!t on my Buells and it has always been very forgiving of my arrogance. The small amount of time I've spent on Jap bikes never gave me the impression that they are forgiving machines. For lack of a better word, I think they offer ruthless handling characteristics to an untrained rider.
Why can't we (meaning Buell faithfuls) just suck it up and deal with whatever hurt feelings are a result of the BoB, and welcome the next generation of Buell owners that the book will no doubt attract. I think they'll begin to realize that spec sheets are meaningless on the street. |
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