| Author | Message | ||
     Pkforbes87 |
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class. That class had insisted that a particular political leader's socialist policies worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on these socialist policies". All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
ah damn Phil, here we go again..  | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
What? The experiment wasn't even conducted in the US. It's just a thought-provoking fictional story. If anyone chooses to interpret it as something else.. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
If anyone chooses to interpret it as something else.. are you new to this place?? you know better! | ||
| Danger_dave |
Damn Commies. | ||
| Slaughter |
Long hair, dope-smoking, maggot-infested, commie, pinko hippies. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
a professor in college teaching about the 'real' world, market economies, capitalist fundamentals.... The first fail of this is that the professor was tenured and under no threat of loosing his job for such an act. Thoreau had a great quote about spending 4 years at college, something to the affect when he was done he ended up with a degree in Astronomy. He said that it would have been better to have spent the time staring up at the stars and the diploma was not worth the paper it was printed on. | ||
| Danger_dave |
One of my best pals has a Masters Degree in English lit. I can kick his arse at Scrabble. | ||
| Teddagreek |
thought-provoking fictional story. Saw this while back it's in a chain email.. Needless to say I didn't email it to 10 of my friends so I'm going to burn in Hell...  | ||
| Aesquire |
But only hell as graded on a curve. Capitalism has uneven distribution of wealth. Socialism has even distribution of poverty. While both systems produce rich people, in capitalism it's a voluntary thing where people work hard to produce & sell. In socialism it's a voluntary thing where people work hard to control & manipulate other people....and what they make & sell. Note the Pilgrims & other socialist utopian colonies discovered exactly the same thing as the lesson that starts this thread. Collectivism breaks down under human nature. They almost all starved before letting people grow their own food & be rewarded for hard work. | ||
| Court |
Education is a funny topic. Your mind is like a magician's hat . . . you can't pull anything out of it that hasn't been previously put in. I confess to being a bit "over degreed" but make no apologies. Seldom do I find educated folks criticizing education. It's not the subjects one learns but the critical and inquisitive thinking process, budgeting time and committing to excel at something. I enjoyed the hypothetical story and found it quite plausible. | ||
| Slaughter |
A youngster with an advanced degree is somebody who has been institutionalized his(her) whole life until graduation. Unfortunately, these same educated young'uns end up running things. | ||
| Fast1075 |
"you can't pull anything out of it that hasn't previously been put in". True. But you can use what you know to gain insight into what you don't know...uniquely human....abstract thought. I like the opening post...and have seen similar results in real life. | ||
| Court |
>>>But you can use what you know to gain insight into what you don't know...uniquely human....abstract thought. Precisely why I so value my experience with the United States Marine Corps, The White House, having been the victim of the (still is) largest drive by shooting in the USA, having an Uncle who was an Astronaut and a best friend who is a Broadway star (Wicked), years in the construction business running cranes, D8 Cats and climbing poles, being arrested, speaking at the Cow Palace about Buell, speaking about Ducati history at the Grand Opening of the Ducati Flagship store, speaking at the NFL Player's Banquet with Dionne Sanders and Christian Okoye, giving a Commencement address at Columbia University, racing, traveling aboard a motorcycle to 44 states, my pilots license, being in 15 Blue Cross/Blue Shield commercials as a kid. being selected to the SMSG Harvard Math group in 7th grade, getting my ass kicked by Scott Kerr, and writing a book. Don't get me wrong . . . I value my Ivy League education but I value more what it does in concert with years of "real world" experience. There is a propensity, when folks here "Ivy League Education" to dismiss someone as having no "practical knowledge". I like having both . . . When it comes time to write a resume' street smarts only goes so far though. | ||
| Xl1200r |
There is a propensity, when folks here "Ivy League Education" to dismiss someone as having no "practical knowledge". I like having both . . . Same here - "New" Ivy League, but along the same lines. It's amazing how many well-educated people really don't know a damned thing. A friend of mine, despite everything in the news regarding the economy and housing market, still thinks that one should buy a house that they would need to stretch to afford so that they may "grow into it financially". | ||
| Court |
>>>It's amazing how many well-educated people really don't know a damned thing. Similarly . . . it's amazing how many poorly educated people really don't know a damned thing. Given the choice, I simply chose to get all the education I could. It hasn't hurt yet. No apologies. | ||
| Bill0351 |
 I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal. | ||
| Teddagreek |
  | ||
| Sayitaintso |
It kinda funny how this turned from an "economics" thread to an education thread. As for me, I'm firmly on Court's side on this one. As with the semi-famous quote "The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet." Success in life is not always to the highly educated, but thats the way to bet. | ||
| Moxnix |
Life is tough. It's tougher if you are stupid. | ||
| Court |
My Grandfather, who's parents were killed when he was 6 had no education. He sold his business, that he started from a fruit stand, for $873M. My Dad's situation was quite similar in the heavy construction business. It's comforting, when arguing economics, to have a degree in it. It is however, no more of an advantage than arguing Law against Lincoln who did fine practicing absent a degree. There's little correlation between formal education and success. | ||
| Court |
This always works well . . .
| ||
| Zane |
If a little learning is a dangerous thing, show me the man so learned as to be out of danger. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784) | ||
| Alchemy |
The story that spawned this thread is the interesting part. It seems like an urban legend to me... I could be wrong as I haven't checked. Mythic stories are always interesting to discuss. Sometimes we learn a little about ourselves or what we fear in ourselves. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
There's little correlation between formal education and success. I guess it depends on how you define "success". But if you look at the median income of highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, and those with some type of higher education, you will see a very very high correlation. Edit: Like I said, education is not a guarentee of success....but its the way to bet. (Message edited by sayitaintso on July 13, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>But if you look at the median income Different folks have differing yardsticks. In my mind if money is even in the equation you still have a great deal to learn. My Father and Grandfather were both successful for reasons unrelated to money. Money has become a standard of measure, but having known wealthy and less fortunate folks, I'd submit it's a poor yard stick. I watch two things . . . The way people treat their animals. The way people treat their kids. Works for me and I neither try to explain or prescribe it. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
One of the most successful people I know is an 8th grade drop out who worked for the Ford Glass Plant for about 15 years before getting into the insurance business and starting his own insurance company. On paper, the guy should be homeless. I drive by the house he built with the buffalo in the front yard every time I head south on I-65. It isn't just about knowing facts. It's about how you are able to assemble facts in a manner that allow you to create opportunities others don't see. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
I agree, which is why I led off with "it depends on how you define success". You said money was unrelated, yet that was the only thing you mentioned when relating your story of your grandfather. Not that he provided a means for however many other men and women to support their families, or that he provided the basis (sound morals) for his progeny to succeed in the future. So I went from the financial standpoint. I still stand by the idea that more education is a good thing and will only hurt you if you let it close your mind into thinking that something is impossible b/c your "teacher" said it was. | ||
| Court |
>>>if you let it close your mind into thinking that something is impossible b/c your "teacher" said it was. You'd be proud of me. I told a Professor at Columbia she was full of xxxx. She was. Lou was an interesting guy . . . started the fruit stand when he couldn't find work and the govt was wanting anyone to start a place near the Eudora, KS munitions plant. After the war, he opened his first store. When he opened a second one his brother Bert, who was his partner, told him two stores was too risky. They still kidded about it when Lou finally sold out at the age of 89. For his 87th birthday his employees through a part for him at the first store. When it came time to cut the cake he was nowhere to be found. Someone located him in the parking lot carrying out some ladies groceries. One of my favorite stories is when a grocer in Omaha, NE was found to be using his trademarked name FOOD-4-LESS. The attorneys were ready to attack, ready to clean the guy out and put him out of business. Lou left the meeting with the attorneys, took the paperwork and got in his old car (he never bought new) and drove from Topeka to Omaha and found the guy. He explained things and his feeling was that the courts never did either party any good. He explained they could become partners and the guy would be much more successful. The guy gave a moving speech at Lou's retirement dinner. That was pretty much the way he was. He left nearly everything to charity and he and my Dad had a theory called "leavin' even". I'll inherit nothing and always told Dad . .. "if there are leftovers, the Boy Scouts need it worse than I do." | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Thank you for sharing, your grandfather sounds like someone we could all look up to. I always tell my parents (when they are obsessing about whether they are going to "leave" anything to their kids) "you already gave me everything I need to make it in life, just don't leave me any debts when you finally do leave us". Back to education... I love quotes and here is one of my favorites about education. "It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than to have education without common sense." I add on..... that its another thousand times better to have both. Here is another that my dad uses all the time..... "that knucklehead is educated way beyond his intelligence". Usually when talking about one of his customers. He owns a well pump business and is often out at peoples' "country house" getting their water going again and having to listen to them pontificate about one thing or another. (Message edited by sayitaintso on July 13, 2009) |
