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Xl1200r
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Synopsis -

DOE approved $25 billion to give out in loans for advanced technology cars.

Ford recieved $5.9 billion. Awesome.

Tesla, an 'American' company co-owned by Diamler (German) and Chrysler (now Italian), recieved $465 million.

Nissan (Japanese) recieved $1.6 billion.

The rest of the loan money will be distributed next year. The DOE did not disclose the terms of the loans.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/23/tesla.electric. cars/index.html

I understand these are loans (I hope), but I don't get fuzzy feelings about helping Nissan out so much - if we want to invest in America's future, then why not keep to American companies? Give more to Ford, help GM move the Volt along, or give it to other upstart American firms like Aptera and Tesla... but Nissan??? They can go to Japanese or French government for cash if they want to, as far as I'm concerned.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tesla, an 'American' company co-owned by Diamler (German) and Chrysler (now Italian), recieved $465 million.

I didn't realize Tesla was owned by others but these guys have their stuff together. They figured the hardest part of developing an electric car was developing a light-weight, high power density, reliable, long-life, fast recharging battery. That takes a LOT of money and time. Then they thought "Hmmm- is there anybody already doing something like this out there already?"

Think about it- what device do you own that has a battery that has these same requirements? A laptop computer. And there are LOTS of manufacturers already spending LOTS of money to figure out how to improve laptop batteries. So the guy behind Tesla designed his powertrain around using a bunch of standard laptop batteries. Genius!

So, on that basis, if Uncle Sam's doling out checks anyway, I'm glad that company is getting some money.

Now, back to our depressing financial rant...
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Arcticktm
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

XL, some of your statements are a bit misleading.

Chrysler is not totally owned by Fiat.
Fiat now owns a 20% stake in "New Chrysler", which could go as high as 35% in the future. Fiat is not allowed a majority stake unless all taxpayer loans are repaid.
The UAW owns 55% of New Chrysler, and I am pretty sure they are still mostly American.
US Gov't owns 8%.

These are the facts as reported on June 10th, the day they came out of Chapter 11.
I don't get how a 20% stake now makes Chrysler "Italian", when the UAW owns 55% thru their health care trust. I guess it just makes for better headlines in the media.

As for Tesla, Daimler acquired a 10% stake in them back in May of this year. Again, I hardly think 10% makes Tesla a German company.

No public company is truly 100% American, if even one share is owned by a foreign investor or investment company, right?

I've got nothing on the Nissan thing, though!
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Nissan is a bunch of Frenchie Renaults : )
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Moxnix
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Our junior senator was doing a lick-spittle justification for the Nissan loan, factory in Tennessee, yadda, yadda. Said the new models would be for the world market, cleaner air, green queen, green bean hand-outs for the world. Our state has over 400 so-called "shovel ready" stimulas projects to pull out of the hog trough. All in the major voting population areas and most to create community centers, museums and other government jobs. Nothin' like buying votes with borrowed dollars. Politics is soooo much like "professional" wrasslin' on the moronoscope . . . . Odd that genuine, green collar job creating projects can't get the time of day from these folks spending us upside down.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just checked Tesla's website, and the $465M is a low-interest loan, not a freebie:

http://www.teslamotors.com/media/press_room.php?id =1539
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Xl1200r
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Arc -

Indeed, I did sensaltionalize things a bit. To be honest, I don't have that big of an issue with Tesla, other than the fact that the Diamler ties will lead to Mercedes-derived chassis compontents.

What got me all in a knot what the Nissan thing.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>Odd that genuine, green collar job creating projects can't get the time of day from these folks spending us upside down.

I know . . . I know . . . I have to screw everything up with facts.

From today's ENGINEERING NEWS-RECORD:


quote:

Meltdown 101: Where are the renewable energy jobs?

June 23, 2009
By SANDY SHORE (AP Energy Writer)
Text size: A A
Everywhere you turn there is talk of a shift to renewable energy, of building wind farms and solar plants, of making buildings more efficient, of developing biofuels. And of billions in federal funding to help make it all happen.

This should mean a whole lot of new energy jobs. So where are they - and how do you get one?

The clean energy sector has certainly been on a tear in recent years, and there will be a lot more money flowing in to meet government-backed demand.

Here's the "but":

The recession has walloped the clean energy sector like every other, and no one is going on a hiring spree right now. Companies have shelved plans for wind farms, solar parks and biofuels plants. Some have laid off workers. Others have been forced to seek bankruptcy protection.

Still, this is a growth field, and most agree business will pick up later this year or in 2010.

Renewable energy provides a small fraction of electricity used today but the wind and solar sectors are among the fastest growing in the United States.

Between 1998 and 2007, renewable energy employment grew by about 9.1 percent, according to a recent study by The Pew Charitable Trusts that was based on an extensive jobs database. That still totals only about 770,000 jobs, or about one half of 1 percent of all jobs in the United States, according to the study. And the period under study ended before the recession struck, so it remains unclear how well the new energy sector has fared since then.

Yet there are early signs that, in addition to government funding, venture capital continues to pour into renewable energy.

Here are some questions and answers about the industry, including what kind of jobs are available.

Q: What kinds of renewable energy jobs are there?

A: Just about any job found in a traditional industry can apply to renewables. But a few fields stand out.

Solar and wind turbine manufacturing plants will need assembly line workers. Mechanics, electricians and maintenance workers will be needed for wind farms, solar parks and biofuels plants. And many types of science and engineering positions will be central to the growth of the industry.

Q: How is the federal money being allocated?

The package includes about $21 billion in tax incentives for renewable energy manufacturers, which has been a key source of funding to help them lure additional investments.

About $11 billion is being earmarked for improving the nation's overcrowded, aging electricity system.

Other allocations include: $6 billion, energy efficiency projects; $5 billion, weatherization program for low-income housing; $2 billion, advanced battery technology; $500 million, job training; $300 million, fuel-efficient vehicles for federal government use.

Q: What particular parts of the renewable energy sector are hiring?

A: About 65 percent of the jobs today are with companies that recycle waste, cut greenhouse gas pollution and handle water conservation, according to the Pew study released this month.

There also has been job growth this year at major utilities that are quickly adding a big solar component to the business, said Neal Lurie of the American Solar Energy Society.

Q: What kind of experience is needed?

A: Many types of jobs require little or no additional training and transition smoothly to the green industry - accountants, stock clerks, security guards or electricians are all represented in the field.

Community colleges are offering training classes for more specialized jobs, such as solar panel installation, wind turbine repair and biofuels processing.

An electrician, for example, can spend a couple of weeks in training and then begin installing solar panels. A plumber can be trained in a few weeks to install solar thermal water heaters, said Roger Bezdek, president of consultancy Management Information Services Inc.

Q: What is the salary range?

A: A study released this year by Management Information Services and the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics detailed some median annual salaries:

Insulation worker, $30,800; recycling worker, $26,400; energy audit specialist, $40,300; environmental engineer, $76,000; environmental engineer technician, $42,800; microbiologist, $64,600; physicist, $93,300.

Q: What's the best way to break into the field?

A: Do a little research to figure out where your interests lie, think about your work experience, and consider what sector is growing in your region, or in a place where you'd be willing to relocate. Volunteer at nonprofit organizations or tour businesses to see the technology and how it works.

There are a number of Web sites that list renewable energy jobs and job hunting tips, such as the American Solar Energy Society, Renewable Energy World and Sustainable Business.

Q: Do I have to move to find a green job?

A: Maybe. There are states with a stronger green energy base and, historically, more green jobs per capita.

Oregon is tops for green, with more than 1 percent of the state's total job base in the clean energy sector, according to Pew researchers. Once again, though, the recession complicates matters: In Oregon, 33 of the state's 36 counties had unemployment rates of at least 10 percent last month, the state reported Monday.

There are, however, some states to keep an eye on when the economy does rebound.

Maine is a close runner-up to Oregon for green jobs per capita; Massachusetts, Minnesota, Colorado, Idaho and California also have a higher-than-average number of jobs in the field. Colorado is big on wind, and Arizona, not surprisingly, attracts solar types. But so does New Jersey - that state is pursuing solar energy aggressively, and utilities there are plowing millions into new sun-powered projects.




By the way . . . there is a great article in this months POWER ENGINEERING about how desperate the search for qualified folks is. There is also a growing need for folks with Nuclear experience AND there are some huge demands for nuke-fleunts for the upcoming winter outage cycle . . . can you say (30 hours of OT and $3800/mo CASH per diem??). Times are good in the power business. I've had more calls for "big" (loosely defined as PM or PE) jobs this year than ever and I'm getting "green nibbles" about my L.E.E.D. AP Certification.

I hope this helps.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>then why not keep to American companies?

That's a bit problematics since our economy, like so many the world over, is driven globally, not locally.

I've been aware of some of the recent Canadaian squaking. I suspect since most our steel comes from overseas and most our money (the very stimulus $$$$ that we did not have in fact) comes from China, that it puts administration of the funds in a sticky wicket.

The good news is that to date less than 5% of the money has even moved and of that the private consulting firm, hired to track it, admits to not being able to determine were $350,000,000 of the monehy went.

Congress . . . all those monkeys up for election in 2010 did something smart and timed the money to go out in early 2010 to allow them to play the "look what I did for you card" during the election cycle.


quote:

US trading partners complain about protectionism
June 8, 2009 - 5:08pm

By DESMOND BUTLER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States' largest trading partners are warning that protectionist moves by Congress could poison global trade relations, despite President Barack Obama's assurances that he wants to keep U.S. markets open.

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(Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
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See more HERE.

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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is also a growing need for folks with Nuclear experience AND there are some huge demands for nuke-fleunts for the upcoming winter outage cycle . . . can you say (30 hours of OT and $3800/mo CASH per diem??).

That's very good to know. ~14 years when the Naval shipyard where I worked shut down, you couldn't find a nuc job anywhere. TVA was considering finishing some partially completed nuc plants and was preparing to do lots of hiring, but the whole thing fell through.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe I read too much . . . . that's what I get for subscribing to 78 magazines.

: )

DOE Budget


Nuclear Education
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Congress . . . all those monkeys up for election in 2010 did something smart and timed the money to go out in early 2010 to allow them to play the "look what I did for you card" during the election cycle.

When I worked Navy construction, the one thing that used to really torque me is that when a contract for a building, facility, runway, etc. is awarded, it can NOT be announced until the senators and representative from that district have been notified and given adequate time to publicize the fact. "Hey, everybody, look what I just did!!!" The bigger the $$ amount, the longer the required delay.
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Liquorwhere
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Our state has over 400 so-called "shovel ready" stimulas projects to pull out of the hog trough. All in the major voting population areas and most to create community centers, museums and other government jobs. Nothin' like buying votes with borrowed dollars.

If anyone watched the "Crumbling of America" on the History Channel the other night, it would probably tick you off to see those dollars going to "new community centers, museums and the like" it does me, as in the show, how accurate it is I cannot vouch, but the narration provided claimed that if we invest $2.2 Trillion in the next five years, we will only barely be at even on what is truly needed. And that was just roads, bridges and water systems, not a new grid, dams or levee's. Wasn't "infrastructure" a part of the campaign for Obama? I don't see any coming anytime soon, apparently "infrastructure" is a code work for cars and GE. So many of the problems were highly traveled bridges, some up by you Court, and water systems leaking 6 billion gallons A DAY...where are the tree huggers on that one??? Why is that not included in the "inconvenient truth" where is the outrage from Keith Olbermann's sorry ass...I see...it didn't have to do with a Union or cars or GE...my bad....I am wondering if W will get blamed when some cars start falling into the Hudson....I would imagine so...Hm...so there ya go....
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Ferris_von_bueller
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's all a colossal joke. It's collectivism without the farm. Just a new scheme to keep the masses placated and occupied while Rome burns. Wind and solar are about as efficient at generating electricity as a gerbil on a wheel. Whatever, spend those borrowed trillions and prepare to pay $10 a loaf for bread. I'm off to ride my paid for Buell.
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Danger_dave
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have something important to add here.

A sticky wicket is caused by rain or condensation making the playing surface irregular and unpredictable - unplayable.

Therefore it's 'on' rather than 'in' a sticky wicket'.

Americans. Sheesh. Don't speak proper an' all.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

detcerroc dnats I

: )
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Gregtonn
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think Court's ball had passed halfway through a honey dipped croquet hoop.

G
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Crusty
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The suspension on a Uly soaks up patched and rough pavement irregularities pretty well. It seems that the solution is for everybody to buy a Ulysses. Then rough roads won't bother you so much, and you'll come to look forward to rough pavement.
Now here's a campaign promise worth supporting: A Uly in every garage!
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Johnnymceldoo
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think we need to focus on the public perception of this administration and how they present themselves rather than the content of their actions. Kinda like what we did before they were in office.


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Moxnix
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Many large city water utilities are on a 700 year water main replacement schedule. Ductile iron has about a 100 year life in service. Large US water companies with foreign ownership will be asking for stimulus money to do replacement, perhaps using the Berlin method so streets won't have to be opened up. Wait, the Mayan calendar says it's over in 2012. Never mind.
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Xl1200r
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The Mayan calander doesn't say it's over in 2012. That's the biggest misinterpretation of doomsday I've seen. Get an iPod, subscibe to the 'Stuff You Should Know' podcast, and listen to the "Will the World Really End in 2012?" episode.

Anyways... I was watching How's It's Made last night and they were showing iron water main pipes. I can't remember the lifespan, but it was in the hundreds of years range - more than 100, less than 700. I thought that was really interesting.
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B00stzx3
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Good to see Ford is going strong and doesn't need anyones help. F-150 and Focus FTW!
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Court
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If anyone want to check a book out from the Canfield Library I'd suggest "LIQUID ASSETS" the story of the New York City Water Supply.

: )
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Crusty
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My Maternal Grandparents were Sicilian immigrants. My Paternal Grandmother was part French and part Cherokee. My Paternal Grandfather was descended from early British, and Scottish colonists. I'm a Multinational American.
If the Guvmint wants to give out multinational grants, I'd be willing to put the money to good use.
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