| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
I can't find it, but I remember an interview with Erik in which he was asked about the VROD motor. He stated that it was too large and heavy to be used in a Buell from what I recall. It appears that much of that is true when looking at Roehr's design and the specs on his bike. Then again, I smoke a lot of crack, so my memory ain't so good. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The Revolution was never intended or built for Buell. End of story. I'm sure there's folks who knew how badly EB wanted a liquid cooled motor and when HD built the Revolution, asked if he was going to try to use it, but there was zero chance in hell of Buell using it. It was designed, built big and pretty for Harley and Harley only. The Revolution was a direct decendent of the VR1000, it was found to be a useless and unpractical motor for anything other than racing (and really didn't live up to the expectations at that). So Harley took the Revolution to the boys at Weissach and the rest is history. EB did try to use the VR1000 though. And NO, the VR wasn't designed by EB. It was done by Harley with Rousch Racing in '88 I believe. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on June 12, 2009) | ||
| Spike |
Perhaps you could educate Erik on the subject? He seems to lack your clear understanding: The VR history begins right at the end of the first video. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The VR is not the REV. Its a decendant. And like I said above, EB did try to use it. | ||
| Court |
>>>>The Revolution was never intended or built for Buell. That is patently inaccurate. The FIRST VR motor, in fact, had a Buell part number. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . and I am not going to participate in a discussion or debate but will simply add MY PERSONAL OPINION that EVERYTHING in the following quote is inaccurate information from content to sequence. That's my PERSONAL OPINION. I'm outta this one but this thread is the way BS incubates on the internet.
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| Hughlysses |
To confirm what Court states above, watch the videos on this blog, shot earlier this month: http://gabeunchained.blogspot.com/2009/06/tour-of- erik-buells-garage-bike-barn.html and hear it from Erik's mouth. BTW- if watching these videos doesn't make you excited to own a Buell, you need to give up motorcycling. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"That is patently inaccurate. The FIRST VR motor, in fact, had a Buell part number." Again, the VR1000 is NOT the Revolution now is it? | ||
| Court |
I would confirm however that the FIRST WATER COOLED MOTOR had the Harley-Davidson logo emblazoned on it. They were in fact financing the project. The VR is related in ZERO ways, not a single part interchanges, to the Revolution motor which derived from a Buell program. (Message edited by court on June 12, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"We can't do both motors. If you're going to do it, you're going to have to use the V-Rod motor." "I said I can't guys." Thank you Spike. I knew I had seen that somewhere. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"following quote is inaccurate information from content to sequence." Sure Court and according to you, Erik Buell sat next to God and he watched while Erik designed the Earth. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Again, the VR1000 is NOT the Revolution now is it? The VR motor was flatly rejected by Erik for being to large and heavy. It was unsuitable for sport bike use. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"The VR is related in ZERO ways, not a single part interchanges, to the Revolution motor which derived from a Buell program." Court.....Harley wanted and tried to use the VR in the VRod, they couldn't, they tried, they took that technology and developed the Revolution with Porsche. Jesus H, I never said the VR WAS the Revolution. I said it was decendent of it. And it was used as the basis of the Revolution. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"The VR motor was flatly rejected by Erik for being to large and heavy." Erik did use the VR1000, but never the Revolution. | ||
| Court |
>>>Sure Court and according to you, Erik Buell sat next to God and he watched while Erik designed the Earth. That's a small minded, grade school style answer. It may or may not be true. I would not know. I lack the reams of paperwork, payroll records, hired consultant contract and other cases of documentation to back it up that I have for the other statements I made. My PERSONAL OPINION is that ALL the statements you have made are patently inaccurate. | ||
| Spike |
So if we all agree that Erik had intended to use the VR1000 engine but later rejected the Revolution engine due to size and weight, what exactly is the debate here? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I think it's the "rejected" part. | ||
| Court |
>>>developed the Revolution with Porsche. I was personally involved in that effort. Let's test your knowledge.
For bonus points tell me how the Germans got snookered out of the desirable window offices. Again . . just my personal opinion. | ||
| Spike |
He's not using it so if he didn't reject it someone else told him he couldn't have it which means he lied in the video. Is that what you are proposing or do you have some explanation for why he's not using it but didn't reject it? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This is the bike HD should have used the Revolution for. I don't think I saw the VR Motor referenced here at all. | ||
| Court |
The first REVOLUTION motor, numbered BR, can be seen in the bike in the center (recognizable by it's Suzuki bodywork) in the video. The motor, if you were to removed the bodywork (and I'm not saying I did one night last week  ) would be found to have lugs welded on it to mate up with the Buell frame. But . . . that's just my guess. Frankly . . . it's high time that Erik Buell and some of the Buell engineers who were working with (there were LOTS of very talented Harley-Davidson folks at PDC involved) Harley-Davidson got proper credit for the work they did. P.S. - for bonus points, name the Harley-Davidson employee who was so impressed with the Buell Engineering process that he took a pay cut, gave up years of seniority and left Harley-Davidson to work for Buell. The next book will be a dandy, eh? | ||
| Dbird29 |
"The next book will be a dandy, eh?" Well, we're waiting..... | ||
| P_squared |
The next book will be a dandy, eh? The sooner you get it published, the sooner I can bring Mandy back to NYC to get it signed too. Now stop jawjacking on here & get to publishing!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Wonder what would happened if HD had allowed the second line of development of the engine. Where would Buell be now if the XB platform had had the VR based power plant instead of the air-cooled? Conversely, where would Buell be if Erik had settled on the V-Rod motor. Would Buell still be known as having great handling bikes? | ||
| Dbird29 |
What if I were rich and powerful? What if everyone were good looking, what would be considered ugly? Somethings are imponderable.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I don't think I saw the VR Motor referenced here at all." Why would I reference a motor that died in 2001 for a bike built in 2009? | ||
| Court |
>>>Now stop jawjacking on here & get to publishing! We are at work. The landscape, little secret, has changed much and will change much more. I used to think that eventually . . say as I approached retirement . . that the excitement Erik generated would wane. Typical Erik . . . in fact, just the opposite is occurring. It's a great time to be a Buell owner. Some restrictions, as the last book, video and interviews have hinted, have been removed with regard to truthful discourse about past projects. Credit where credit is due. Bless for pack rats . . . for they, someday, will tell the story. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Wonder what would happened if HD had allowed the second line of development of the engine. Where would Buell be now if the XB platform had had the VR based power plant instead of the air-cooled? Conversely, where would Buell be if Erik had settled on the V-Rod motor. Maybe we can talk Harry Turtledove into writing an "alternate history" book on how things would have turned out. He's made a career of writing novels based on such things. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Why would I reference a motor that died in 2001 for a bike built in 2009? Why would HD build a sportbike from an engine that died in 2001? | ||
| P_squared |
We are at work. Counting the days until I can pre-order. This should be more good reading. |
