| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
"Not if you don't get paid any commission because the profit margin was to low." At a lower price, you should be selling more. More bikes at less commission should end up evening things out. | ||
| Greenlantern |
What disclaimer is attached to that asterisk ? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
More bikes at less commission NO commission because the profit margin is/was to low.... If you sell 100 doodads that cost 5 bucks each for $5.10.... you didn't make enough profit to keep the lights on let alone pay a commission | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
* Price, if shown, is Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) and does not include government fees, taxes, dealer vehicle freight/preparation, dealer document preparation charges or any finance charges (if applicable). MSRP and/or final actual sales price will vary depending on options or accessories selected. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
well if thats so I guess I would be trying to sell blast and firebolts to people who want the bikes that are on sale. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
In all seriousness, customers don't give a rip about sales people. All they care about is price. When I have a customer come in and ask about a musky lure, they don't care that I have a bike payment to make every month, they care about getting that lure for the best price possible, no matter the service I give him. I've been selling fishing merchandise for Gander Mtn for 9 years, I don't make commission. Harley Dividson has been selling bike at premium prices for a long time, its about time they take a bite of the sheet sammich and their prices come in line with today's economy. IMHO, the only way a product is degraded is if its quality is crap. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
In all seriousness, customers don't give a rip about sales people That is not always true.... Sometimes the best thing that could happen for me is my customer would buy a jobs worth of material from another company.... or at least try to. I always ended up filling in all their short comings and cement my sales for the distant future.... or until a new project manager is hired and I go thru the same process with them.... customer service does count and I should be taking care of mine right now.... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
On that poster, I would be willing to bet above market prices for dealer prep, doc fees, etc. Ye olde bait and switch. If they are selling them at a loss, they are either selling more of something else to cover the loss or are going out of the Buell business. Soon. Chadhargis bought his Uly from a dealer where they had the T-Shirts in a nice, brightly lit, dealer floor and had the bikes in a barn out back. They sold a steep discounts, but had a ton of parts, accessories and motor clothes. My guess is that they sold the bikes slightly above cost and depended on the sale of the doodads off the floor to pay the rent. | ||
| Daves |
Yes, those sale prices are crazy! They must really be good at selling Buells(being sarcastic here if you can't tell) On the commission thing. When I was in the auto biz we worked on straight commission. You work 70 hours that week and sell 0 cars, you get NO PAYCHECK! I did fine and sold lots of cars but if I had a choice to spend 4 hours selling someone a new car for maybe a 50-100.00 commission (most times 50.00) and using that same time to sell a used car which at that time held better profit margins I'd rather sell the used car and make more money in the same or less time. Now, let's apply that to bikes. The dealer has the Buells on blow out, stupidly low prices and even though I LOVE Buells and LOVE to sell them, I gotta eat. So, do I concentrate my efforts on selling the Buell or even wanting to talk to someone about one or do I spend my time and effort selling Fatboys and Electraglides? Hmmmmm. I will tell you guys that have never sold motorcycles as a living that a Buell customer takes 2-3 times more time and effort, let alone knowledge than the average HD buyer demands. just as an example, Never once did I spend an hour or more, out back, off the sales floor with a HD buyer setting up suspension. Did it all the time with Buell customers. As far as the customer not giving a crap about the salesperson. I do not believe that. Sure, there are some that do not and some salespeople that do not deserve to be cared about, but, If you are doing a great job I truly believe that your customers do care about you and the dealership. That kind of gets us back to the selling on price versus selling on value. A good salesperson does add value to a product. Most of the "I buy on price only" people will never see this or reap the benefits of having a relationship with their salesperson. BCS, you have been selling fishing gear for 9 years. I am willing to bet your customers care about you more than you think. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I think some folks aren't understanding that MSRP isn't what a dealer pays for bikes. Its a suggested retail price. Dave, I do have a pretty decent customer base. I was actually thinking of asking Hal's if they'd let me try selling bikes on the side. Bikes aren't fishing gear, but customer service is customer service no matter where you go. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think some folks aren't understanding that MSRP isn't what a dealer pays for bikes. Its a suggested retail price. Understand, but there is a limit to the amount of spread between what the dealer pays and the price sold. Not all of that is paid to the sales person. The dealer must hang onto the biggest chunk of that to cover overhead. At the prices they are advertising, there isn't much spread between dealer cost, the overhead cost, and the retail price. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'd bet there's a 30-50% mark-up from what a HD dealer pays to what the consumer does. HD's target, up until now, has been 50% margin on all bikes. Which means they wanted to see 50% profit on what it took to build a bike to what it sold to a dealer for. I'm curious as to what it is now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't think it's that high over all, and I DEFINITELY don't think it's that high for Buells. | ||
| Daves |
There is NO WHERE near 30-50% Holy crap! | ||
| Daves |
ps There isn't 50% on a Harley either If you think or have been told that you are mis informed. You are right bikes are not fishing lures but, you are also right that customer service is customer service no matter the product. | ||
| Mark61 |
Mostly it is 100% mark up from what the dealer pays for a part. Some not quit that much. Generally if a doodad cost dealer $1 retail price is $2. Clothes much higher mark up! mark61 | ||
| Daves |
While that might be true of a $1.00 part it is not true as you go up the price ladder. A 500.00 part costs the dealer more than 250.00 so to claim that parts have 100% mark up isn't really true. Now we all know that bikes do not have the same margin as parts or clothing. To think that HD dealer with a 22,000.00 Electraglide only paid 11,000.00 for it is just not true. Even more so if you think a dealer with a Buell at MSRP of 12995.00 only paid about 6500.00 for it, Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Trust me, I have sold a few Buells and Buell parts  I am no longer in the business so I do not have any reason to make this stuff up. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I am no longer in the business so I do not have any reason to make this stuff up." Then tell us what the margin is. Also, 50% margin isn't 100% or double the price. A dealer who paid 10k for a bike would charge 15k at 50% mark up. 30% mark up would be 13k, which to me is on the low end. I think we cal all agree that if a dealer pays 10k, they aren't charging 20k. That's where HD the factory is trying to make their 50%. From the cost of building it to what each dealer pays. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Daves |
Once again, you and I are talking about profit and mark up. I think we had this same discussion a couple years ago? Your numbers are still off. I was using the 100% from someone else's post. Why don't I tell you, you ask? Because it is none of your business. You want to know? Get in the business, at a level that you are privy to such things or pony up 10-20 million, and buy your own dealership. Not trying to be harsh here but those are the choices if you really want to know. Others have earned/paid for, the "right to know" by doing these things. Just because I am no longer in the business doesn't change anything as far as me divulging information. It's real easy to be an internet quarterback. It's much harder to be in the game. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd say that the undiscounted margin is between 15% and 20%. A $12,000 bike costs the dealer $10,000. So a dealer selling a bike at $9,999 is probably selling it right at invoice. Given that, a $700 shipping, doc and dealer prep fee is the real margin. So a dealer willing to discount a little and is willing to sell with low or no "add on" fees is probably within $250-500 of a steep discount shop. Also keep in mind that most deals have a trade in happening at the same time. They make some of the difference on trade. I saw a deal just this last weekend where we were discounting the bike on the floor significantly AND paying $500 over NADA trade in value for a bike that didn't justify the extra $500. Again "bait and switch". | ||
| Daves |
actually, none of that qualifies as "bait and switch" Bait and switch is when you advertise a low price on one bike and then when the customer comes in to buy that bike you switch them to a more expensive one. In the old days and before "Bait and switch" became illegal in many states, the dealer didn't even have the advertised cheap item available. Now you have to have at least one that can be bought at the cheap advertised price. Dealers are charged shipping/freight by the factory, some up that amount to gain some profit but it is not all profit. Setup is a real cost also if done right. The sales dept pays the shop to do this. Some dealers(most) again do mark this up a little, some mark it up a lot. You always have to look at the "out the door" price as the only number that matters. Then decide if the price is right for you. | ||
| Barker |
I saw a CR in a dealership, with the high bars. the bars added $750 line item to the price of the bike. That is a good mark-up. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
actually, none of that qualifies as "bait and switch" Technically true, but the low price plus high "add on" fees equates to the same result. Sure the price is advertised to be "X", but you don't really get it at price "X". | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"So a dealer selling a bike at $9,999 is probably selling it right at invoice." No way.Dave may be taking his "hard earned, over countless years of being in the business ball of pricing" and running home, but there's no way a HD dealer is cutting margin that close. Case in point, 08 1125R leftovers. 7999.00 for a 12k bike. I believe there's your margin. 50%. FT...if you bought a 20k car, what would you believe margin would be from the factory? 30%? HD is worse than any car dealer. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Why is dealer setup not included in the price? | ||
| Daves |
"Ball of pricing" That's good! Not running anywhere. I do know what I know. You think you know what you know. There is a difference. You do not believe me. Doesn't change anything. Now, I will give you the fact that I do not know the profit on an 08 or 09, I left the business in 07. I would be willing to bet there isn't 5000.00 there. Didn't they list at 12999.00? These dealers are loosing money to move these bikes off the floor unless they are adding in a HUGE freight and setup fee. Sometimes you need to do that on slow moving items. I'm sure Gander does the same thing once in a while? Heck I just sold my last 08 bow this week. Lost 150.00 on it to get it out of here. I guess I'll have to sell some t shirts now to make it up(smile) | ||
| Daves |
well they could add it in and I agree, it should be. I do not like "tack on" fees anymore than anyone else here. | ||
| Brumbear |
I just think some friggen dealer enthusiasim or however you spell it would be a welcome relief. The buell dealers buy me differ greatyly I am lucky enough to have 4 in a 70 mile cirle from my home but they differ greatly. Bergan h-d they lack a buell enthusiasim they are not hostile very nice actually but they are in bergan county so they can sell pretty much for whatever they decide to Liberty has the best rep and are buell enthusiasts and I am willing to bet it shows in numbers of machines sold but they are not in bergan county where more money than diety applies. Kosco well they are not enthusiasts and they have sales people who can't even say harley for real the one guy says hardly but they are banging the bikes down to nothing and I still wouldn't shop there as long as I have a choice. The schoch in PA I don't know much about everytime I was in there they tried to sell me a harley I really think enthusiasim for the product does more for selling even in the times we face but thats just me | ||
| Cityxslicker |
"In all seriousness, customers don't give a rip about sales people " I would not have had people driving from Portland and Missoula to buy bikes from me if that were the case. there is certain level of personality that is with the product that cant be dismissed, otherwise the damn things would be at Walmart and you could buy them like furniture, clothes, groceries, tires, etc And I would not continue to be able to do the business we do overseas without my language capabilities. There are just some niches you aint getting with out the right 'guy' there doing it. PS I only discounted when the Mothership was doing a discount, the bike was always MSRP, the dealer fees were a lil more flexible, but I never sold a bike under MSRP. Never. 5 years, over 1200 bikes, not one. | ||
| Daves |
I agree Brum Tell me, do the good dealers by you give the Buells away? I'm thinking (and hope) they do not have to. |
