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Darthane
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 07:08 am: | 
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I think you're backwards, Sword. Penske owns complete distribution rights to the Smart in NA, Daimler still owns the company and produces the vehicles.
It was mentioned in an article I read yesterday that there are no plans to combine the dealership networks.
Unfortunately for Saturn (IMO), he's only getting rights to the Aura, Vue, and Outlook. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 08:42 am: |
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Sunny still has her SC1. 310,000 miles and its mileage has dropped down to 40 on our LA/Phoenix run. We put a trailer hitch on it and can pull the 1-bike trailer to Willow Sprigs. Let's see the SMART car do that well - on mileage, on load carrying, on 4 people + bags.
I'd like to see Saturn return to its roots and quit trying to be just another Chevy wannabee. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 11:15 am: |
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Smart4Twos here in the US don't get 40MPG even in EPA tests. I am completely bamboozled by the morons I see in the suburbs driving these things, they make no sense whatsoever except in very tight, urban environments (and I have my qualms about them even there).
For $3K less you could get a Cobalt XFE (or a variety of other compacts/subcompacts) that gets better mileage and is actually a pratical vehicle in terms of its cargo/passenger capabilities.
...sheeple. I did see one towing a trailer the other day on my way up to OAP. One of my colleagues also saw it and snapped a picture on his cell-phone. I'll have to see if I can get hold of it. The trailer was as big as the car. >.< |
Xb12mel
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:42 pm: |
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We do still build quality cars in America, the problem is that the majority of the brands we associate as "American" don't get all of their cars manufactured in America! (more like North American)
But just tell someone with a BMW, VW, Toyota or Honda which was actually built on US soil by an American, that their car isn't American Made... try it, I dare you. I think the prices and reliability of those cars is proof of the quality of American manufacturing. Unfortunately there is this belief that American labor is too expensive to make a profit. The alternative I guess it Bankruptcy. Go figure!
Don't get me wrong, all my cars are Mopars and yup, they're all made in Canada. Hopefully this "Downsizing" of GM and Chrysler will allow them to focus on making a quality product right here in the good ol' USA. (Not something shipped over from Belgium or Australia and badged as "American".)
It might be good to start to associate the product with the people who made it, instead of were the Company's Headquarter is located at.
(no offense was meant to any Baddwebber living in one of those Countries) |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 03:37 pm: |
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Those lost foam engine blocks were way cool... they looked just like styrofoam, but aluminum colored
what is "lost foam" |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 03:49 pm: |
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what is "lost foam"
Simple version.
The desired shape is made from foam and surrounded by a mold.
Molten metal is poured into the mold.
The foam is melted or "lost" and replaced by the metal.
G |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 04:08 pm: |
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What is the advantage to lost foam? Why not just have a mold and not worry about the foam shape? |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 05:11 pm: |
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This should explain it without going too deep:
http://web.mst.edu/~foundry/
G |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 06:43 pm: |
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quote:But just tell someone with a BMW, VW, Toyota or Honda which was actually built on US soil by an American, that their car isn't American Made... try it, I dare you.
I dare you to find one that knows it was made here. Especially with some cars like the Camry, some are made here, some in Japan.
quote:I think the prices and reliability of those cars is proof of the quality of American manufacturing. Unfortunately there is this belief that American labor is too expensive to make a profit
Unfortunately it isn't very profitable if your employees are all unionized, and you have retirement and health to pay for someone that retired 20 years ago and is living in a hospital. Not that the employee didn't earn his retirement, my point is the foreign makers do not have this huge handicap.
quote:Don't get me wrong, all my cars are Mopars and yup, they're all made in Canada. Hopefully this "Downsizing" of GM and Chrysler will allow them to focus on making a quality product right here in the good ol' USA.
Whats wrong with them being made in Canada? Sure it would be nice if they were made stateside, but financially it isn't always practical.
quote:Not something shipped over from Belgium or Australia and badged as "American".
The Pontiac G8 was designed in Australia, built in Australia, and the 415hp V8 is made in Mexico. It has a domestic parts content of 5%. I have not seen anything calling in American in any way, shape, or form. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 06:55 pm: |
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I dare you to find one that knows it was made here. Especially with some cars like the Camry,
for a few years ,our old sister company "Rhode Island Tool" (a drop forging,and union company) forged braking components for the Toyota Avalon.
Due to some union problems,my old company was awarded ALL of the machining of the forgings.I took great pride in machining the brake shoe pivot pins and the emergency brake levers(the ones inside the drum).We machined tens of thousands of those.I'll never forget machining those forgings.WHAT FUN
On topic:A big thank you to Roger Penske(and OLD time racer)for retaining the rights to a forward thinking automotive manufacturer
(Message edited by ducxl on June 06, 2009) |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 09:35 pm: |
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Then it sounds like it's high time to even the field and put a tariff on those vehicles that are produced without giving it's labor the benefits they deserve.
Where ever it's made, even here.
(Not backing the UAW here, I think what they were getting was nuts) |
Old_man
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 10:02 pm: |
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My Benz was made in Alabama. |
Mattwhite
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 09:08 pm: |
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In Detroit we get more details on the auto news than anywhere else, so here are a few things to think about:
Saturn started as a semi-independent company that was supposed to operate like the japanese. They had their own vehicles and a plant of their own with a flexible labor agreement. They never made much money so they got folded back into GM a few years ago. The newer Saturns are all shared platforms with other GM brands. The "Saturn" factory is making the Chevy Traverse for a few more months until they're closed. Penske is getting the brand name and dealers. GM will make the current Saturn lineup for him (minus the sky) for a while, then he'll will shop around for an importer to make cars and slap a Saturn badge on it. They're product history will be irrelevant.
GM is actually planning on importing more cars from Asia to cut costs rather than consolidate manufacturing here.
I'm not sure what Chrysler's plan is in terms of plant closings, but the deal with Fiat gets described as getting Fiat small-car technology for Chrysler. I expect Chrysler's small car's will be Fiat's with some styling changes. I imagine The Jeeps and larger cars will be kept around to some degree.
Ford almost has a positive outlook. An honest look at their newer cars compare well with everything else. They've increased market share during the downturn. The SUV sales are down, of course, but pickups are still doing relatively well. They're still running at a loss, but they've managed much better financial planning than GM and Chrysler/Daimler/Cerberus over the last few years, so they have the financing to hold out if the market recovers before too long. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 05:13 pm: |
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My 1970 Pinto engine was made in Brazil. |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 02:41 am: |
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I'll point out, as a Canadian, that the deal is that the percentage of cars that are built up here, in relation to the percentage of cars built state-side is equal to the number that are sold in North America. That is to say, if 12% of the Big Three's cars are sold in Canada, then 12% of the Big Three's cars, or parts, must be made here or else we would be applying tariffs. Something like that. Probably the same for the "Japanese" manufacturers.
When I was living in Greece 25 years ago, they had a 100% import tax on all vehicles. Because they didn't have a domestic industry, any car purchase was seen as money flowing out of the country.
As to the build quality, I don't understand how Chrysler could put the same crappy transmission into their mini-van for two decades. I went through two blown trannys. The rebuild guys said that the main issue was a bushing made of bronze that they replaced with a steel one and if Chrysler had been willing to spend the extra $1.00 they could have done that too. But they didn't because it was still the best selling mini-van and because most people were leasing and didn't care what happened after four years were up. I think that company just suffered from short-term thinking.
Harley has done the same with the many way-to-late up-grades (oil-pump drive gear, rocker box gaskets, etc.) If they'd done the same with the Big Twins, they'd be standing cap in hand in Washington too.
(Message edited by Sportyeric on June 10, 2009) |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 05:50 am: |
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Just as a matter of pure principle I won't buy a car from a company with any government money in it. Ford, I suspect, is going to seize an opportunity here while GM and Chrysler die their slow deaths at the stranglehold of the government folks who have come to "help" them. I find strange irony that the fellow selected to be the "car czar" has, as his sole qualification, "wife former finance director of the democratic party".
I'm going to watch Saturn closely. Roger Penske is a no nonsense guy and it would be thrilling to see him emerge with a profitable Saturn. |
Greenlantern
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 08:11 am: |
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My Benz was made in Alabama.
If ever there was a better name for a country music song, I have not heard it! |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 08:15 am: |
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'Cept it'll be a Saturn in name only. Manufactured in Asia, India, or Brazil. |
Shupe
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 09:06 am: |
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Ford, I suspect, is going to seize an opportunity here while GM and Chrysler die their slow deaths at the stranglehold of the government folks who have come to "help" them. I find strange irony that the fellow selected to be the "car czar" has, as his sole qualification, "wife former finance director of the democratic party".
Ford will have to compete with GM, which will be owned (and subsidized by) Federal Gov't. I think the Gov't will do what it takes to get the GM vehicles sold, and it will be unfair to Ford. Ford will then have to become dependent on the Gov't, too.
Shupe |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 11:36 am: |
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We'll see. I wouldn't touch a GM product with all the chicanery going on. I do however think it's cool how the UAW, that gave up nothing other than to throw about 30% of it's membership under the bus, put the screws to Fiat. |
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