| Author | Message | ||
     José_quiñones |
More than the Honda CBR954RR compared to the CBR1000RR. More than the Kawasaki ZX9R compared to the ZX10R More than the 2003 Yamaha R1 compared to the 2004 R1 They all have evolved their basic designs, some more than others, but the 2002 and 2004 Buells still share more parts than any of the examples mentioned above, not to mention the basic engine architecture and the fact that they are built largely on the same tooling as the 2002 Buells. Saves HD money, they like that. not a sermon, just a thought. | ||
| Blake |
Which diverged more from it's predecessors configuration/design? Answer... Clearly the Buell XB's. So friggin what? Are you guessing that the above listed repliracers share less in common with their predecessors than the Buells do with theirs or are you guessing? | ||
| Davegess |
Which motorcyle manufacturer has brought 3 radical outside the box machines to production in 15 years? One so far outside the box that most people don't get it even today, one so exciting that pretty much every other company scrambled to get a bike into the category and a third that is still the most radical production mc in the world. Building a redesigned 600 race rep every couple of years is tough but they are all the same, just better, faster, versions of what went before. The 1990 Honda 600 may share no parts with the current bike BUT I would argue that on the whole they are the same bike. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Court...per your recommendation, I finally got around to reading Mitch Boehm's "Rust Never Sleeps, Part II editorial today. I really got a kick out of it. Regardless of my widely shared opinion of the "Big Boehmer" this was a worth while read. Thanks for the tip. | ||
| Koz5150 |
hmmmmm the never ending quest for a better bike... Well they changed all the parts on this platform. Well that is great. Speed limit is still 65 mph. My tuber shares a ton of engine parts with the sportster so I guess I will be able to find those in stock for a long time. Finding parts for my 1984 Honda was becoming quite the task. I had to do serious research just to find an airfilter. So is it progress? Not if you are the consumer who is still happy with his tuber. Mr Buell, impress me and make a XB12r that a 6'3" guy can ride without banging his knees on the corners of the frame! P.S. thanks for signing my shirt at the 20th, I still love my tuber... | ||
| Court |
>>>Which motorcyle manufacturer has brought 3 radical outside the box machines to production in 15 years? The Honda folks would DIE to have been able to do what Buell did with the XB platform. It is, by the whispered admission of some folks from Torrance, CA, not moneu nor engineering expertise that prevneted them. It was corporate culture. Fun stuff. | ||
| Rocketman |
Which motorcyle manufacturer has brought 3 radical outside the box machines to production in 15 years? Dave instead of hinting at Buell taking those honours we could equally suggest looking to the Italian's, in particular to the Cagiva Research Centre (CRC)in the foothills of San Marino. Founded in 1991 by Claudio Castiglioni, with Massimo Tamburini heading up design, CRC have designed the Ducati 916, MV Agusta F4 and the MV Brutale to name but three. Not only do CRC boast world class exotic top quality motorcycles, they also boast such notable designer Pierre Treblanche, who succeeded Tamburini at Ducati, Monster designer Miguel Galluzzi and Benelli Tornado creator Adrian Morton, all as CRC understudies. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Court, there's nothing loud or aggressive about pointing out most of the crap you write in Buells honour, I just haven't figured out why Buell can't afford to employ you as head of marketing. Maybe then their success rate would treble with your BS helping sales. I do not know, but would venture that few manufaturers of anything have ever made such a drastic "ALL new" product. Then we had..... I hold no illusions of Buell being the only one TO do this. What a pile of contrary bollocks. More like 'Court's Fables'...... The Honda folks would DIE to have been able to do what Buell did with the XB platform. Do us the honour of explaining why? Rocket | ||
| Crusty |
Aw hell, Rocket, even I can do that! It because Buell actually produced a bike using new and radical concepts, instead of just building a one off-impress-the-journalists special for the Tokyo Show. Yeah, Honda could do something as impressive as the XBs (and will probably come up with an "improved" copy), but after Yamaha's dismal flop with the GTS and its "revolutionary" front end, all the Japanese are a bit leery of getting too far outside the box. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Very true, but in Buells case even more so because they STILL share parts. Blake, not a guess, I only need to show ONE part # that is the same to be right, I could start with FIVE and go from there. The Honda CBR954 and 1000RR share ZERO Parts. | ||
| Grndskpr |
The tube frames for the RR1000 is very different from an X1 frame I could be wrong, but i thought i read in an intervirew with Eric Buell, that the same frame design was used for 17 years, i am going to guess that what he ment was similar design, but when i get home i will look it up(if i still have it) and i belive in the same interview he mentioned that the XB platform would be around for a while, but until i have the article or someone else posts it, i wouldnt take it as entirley correct Roger | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jose'... far be it from me to inject facts into a perfectly good argument, but are you trying to say the 2000 M2 that I have and the XB9 that I want are the same bike? Are you serious? | ||
| Grndskpr |
ZERO Parts. Are you sure Jose, i mean i find it hard to belive, that Honda would not reuse certain engine diagnostics, or sensors, i am not questioning what you are saying, but i find it hard to belive they would start from a clean sheet, if only to save excesse inventory from previous years I would of course, suspect, that some parts are carried over, if only to reduce some measure of costs, such as wheel bearings, swingamr bearings and the like to bad Honda has not taken the example set fourth by Kawi, and posted parts lists on the web And speaking of Kawi, i would belive, that it shares no part of the ZX9/7, but that same/similar design has been around since 1989, hence deserving a all new design/parts list, after 15 years of using the same/similar design it was about time for them to do something\of course this is all my own opinion, and not meant to distract from the conversation later Roger | ||
| Jmartz |
Having had an '02 R1 I know a few things are still the same on the '04. Triple trees, upper fork, levers, controls. Maybe axles and for sure a few fasteners and other small items. Less than 10% by weight. | ||
| Sarodude |
I'm having silly thoughts of companies re-issuing new part numbers to existing parts just make the products 100% new. Does an ECM / ECU with the SAME MOTHERBOARD and SAME BASIC ARCHITECTURE and only DIFFERENT FIRMWARE qualify as a new part? Think of it another way - does a CV40 with a larger pilot jet qualify as a different part? I'm sure everybody puts some spin on this crap. BFD. Get over it. Roger- The frames went through evolutionary changes - though the basic design remained the same. Everybody- I'm getting more and more fed up with the increasing number and increasing pissyness of the Excretory Distance Contests taking place on BadWeB. This place is getting dragged down. Please stop your petty bickering. -Saro | ||
| Bomber |
Saro -- if those parts are to be available separtely, then the answers to your questions are yes (unless it was an illutrative and retorical question, in which case, never mind {grin}) I believe your perception of the Contests on the board is accurate, but seasonal . . . . 4 to 6 more weeks, and most of the board denizens will be riding again, and I predict that will elevate the level of discourse to it's previous tropospheric altitude | ||
| Koz5150 |
AP NEWS WIRE... Global warming melts all snow in the Northern hemisphere and motorcycle riders rejoice. In a related news item all members of Badweatherbikers.com are seen singing Kum-bi-ya in a circle after nationwide group ride. PMS (parked Motorcycle Syndrome) is declared over for the year.... Won't that be a happy day... | ||
| Cj_xb |
Wake up Koz, earth to Koz, back to reality, winter is still here and it SUCKS !!! CJ  | ||
| Davegess |
I knew I would get a rise out of Rocket  Sean, I admire the Italians, they make great bikes and I hope to own a Ducati someday. All those bike you mentioned are very neat but I would argue that none of them rewrote the rules the XB does. None of them invented a new category of bike like the S1 did. None of them as far out as an H-D powered Superbike was (the RR1000). And you can’t argue with this Buell is the first into production with street legal braided steel brake lines, upside down forks, six piston brake calipers, fuel in the frame, oil in the swingarm and perimeter brakes. | ||
| Featheredfiend |
" None of them invented a new category of bike like the S1 did." Ever heard of a Monster? "None of them as far out as an H-D powered Superbike was (the RR1000)." None of them as far Back as the HD either. "I'm getting more and more fed up with the increasing number and increasing pissyness of the Excretory Distance Contests taking place on BadWeB." Just rename it Bedwetterbikers. -feathered | ||
| Blake |
Ff, I somewhat agree, but of course we are all free to abstain. Your comment certainly is not helpful towards restoring an improved demeanor to the thread. But I suppose it might make you feel better about yourself to denigrate others. We all fall into that trap at times, some more than others. I say, please people, leave the personal derision off the board. Good grief, we're talking about motorcycles, and we all agree that motorcycles are a good thing, right? Rocket, What Dave said. And please, if you want to deride and ridicule Court, please take it offline. It is totally uncool to wage that kind of disrespectful personal affront here, especially upon a fellow board custodian. Get my drift? If you cannot tolerate those of us who are enthusiastic and optimistic about Buell motorcycles, if you cannot give us the benefit of doubt in our "cheerleading" (as you see it) for our preferred motorcycle, you simply don't belong here. Discussion and debate are welcome and promoted, but lose the hate speak. This isn't an objectivity driven all-brand motorcyclists' evaluation site; it is a Buell enthusiasts' site. Capice? JQ, Wrt the statement made that the new Honda 600 is virtually the same bike as its predecessor you say "Very true, but in Buells case even more so because they STILL share parts." So now I see where you are coming from, you view the XB9S Lightning as being virtually the same motorcyle as the X1 Lightning or the S1 Lightning. Really? I am certain that you will be hard pressed to find anyone who will agree with that ludicrous position. You are arguing about nothing. We can all easily recognize that the XB's represent one of the most radical departures from prior model architecture ever seen in the modern motorcycle industry. We're not talking about whether or not a few bearings or seals or other pieces of hardware remain in use accross the models, we're not talking about an incremental evolution of an existing model; what we are talking about is a massive transformation of the motorcycle as a whole, replete with wild new approaches to basic motorcycle design. Stuff like perimeter brakes, fuel in the frame, oil in the swingarm, zero adjustment rear axle, pretensioned drive belt, 52" wheelbase, 21o rake, the lightest front wheel assembly ever in this class of streetbike, Ducted forced air cooling. Seriously dude, how freaking inane is it to argue about whether or not a new model shares a few bits of common hardware with its predecessor? So friggin what? What is your point? That by the letter of strict semantics you may be correct? Congratulations on that. BTW, I also am skeptical about your claim that the new Japanese machines you reference share no common parts with their predecessors. THAT is what I was implying when I asked if you were "guessing." But I suppose you have a quote from someone who made such a statement, and we all know that if someone says something and it shows up in print, it must be true.  I gotta get back to work. edited by blake on February 11, 2004 | ||
| Bads1 |
Maybe someone can help me out.My wife and I were at the show this past weekend and the wife tried on some riding boots/shoes they were grey and black.They were designed for riding but also for comfort when not on the bike.Quite pricey.At there booth they only sold boots.Not Joe Rocket or Icon or any of the popular name brands.If someone remembers them and has a name let me know,trying to find them.My wife wants a pair. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Blake does Buell pay you by the word? The person that wanted to know about shared parts was Court when he asked "Care to venture a guess at how many parts the 2002 Buell and the 2004 share in common?" The number is probably about 25, mainly the transmission gears. I don't disagree that the number is small, however, there are other bikes that share LESS parts than their predecessors than the current Buells do. | ||
| Featheredfiend |
Blake, When it come to motorcycles, it's all fun. I've never made a serious post on a motorcycle forum regarding Motorcycles or Motorcyclists. If it seems otherwise to you and anyone else, I apologize. Sorta. It is a constant amazement that so many are eager to embroil themselves over things "motorcycle". -feathered PS: Have you ordered your new, improved '05 RC51? | ||
| Rocketman |
Once upon a time I too was enamoured by the Buell ethos. Not any more. I remember looking at every part of my S1W, assessing its right to be so high tech, so revolutionary, so damn different. Capable of delivering the goods from every single part of the machine, each part doing its job perfectly. The chassis, itself just bloody gorgeous to look at, never mind its ability to handle well. The upside down forks, well fat in their circumference and held strong with chunky alloy triple clamps. The under slung exposed spring WP shock, the manufacturers name itself enough to tell the adorning onlookers this Buell could handle. Its almost revolutionary shock set-up demanding the Buells right to use such a great and well proven name in suspension manufacture. That huge front disc brake warning the 'enemy' this Buell could go in deep. Yeah I remember a radical motorcycle, so radical that its minimalist appearance did not tell the story at all. Only those who cared to look really caught the gist of this thing. Some of us put our money where our mouths are and actually bought them. I was one of those. I'm still one of those but I am not one of what is now. Your XB's are fabulous bikes. No one can doubt the radical design approaches to the XB's even if some of them are a little over the top. Is it beneficial to have the swing-arm double up as an oil tank? I think not, but it's a good way to make space. Ditto the frame holding fuel. Is that bike worthy of more motor? I should say so. Why piss around with a 'head in the sand' pushrod poppet when an air cooled overhead cam motor could just as easily be shoe-horned in there? I'm sure there are many reasons but the biggest one of all is the reason I'm not one of what is now. If you haven't figured it out, no problem, glad you're happy. If you've figured it out you're probably not riding a Buell any longer, or if you are it's not your only motorcycle, and probably your Buell gets ridden not so often. You know, I don't think anyone on the planet makes a bad motorcycle, just some make better ones than others. Where Buell sit in that realm I don't know but I do know that my personal experience with my older Buell has \ is a happy-sad one and in part that's due to some of the product or its representatives being of poor quality or competence. Have things changed? Nope Buell still haven't got past the agricultural revolution when it comes to engine design despite their motorcycles screaming for radical change. If ever a motorcycle should break 150MPH, even if the prospective owner(s) never ride past 100MPH, it surely should be an XB'S. It's a fine looking and very capable motorcycle but relying upon great handling skills and design innovation to achieve superiority over more powerful motorcycles is not in my opinion ever going to elevate any motorcycle into superbike territory unless it can perform in relative speed to a superbike. Another mistake that Buell managed with the XB platform was to bring the XB'R to market first. What were they thinking when they should have been riding on the shirt tails of the S1's success? Sports Fighter, does anyone still call them that? They should all be converted to XB'S's immediately, at least then Buell would have a reason for been slow. I won't piss down your back and tell you it's raining. That's my opinion, call it loud , arrogant or whatever, it's not meant to be. I speak the truth. My truth, not Court's , Blake's or anyone else's, and I'm certainly not going to dance to anyone else's tune if it's wrong to do so, but further, Buell forum it maybe, but would you wish it such that bull shit reign over fact where other motorcycles are concerned, or would you prefer that someone posting bull shit be corrected, because that's what someone did very recently? Man it's got very pc around this place in recent times. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Offering opposition and correction to erroneous or bull shit statements does not require engaging in personal attack. That isn't "pc"; it's common courtesy. For instance, I disagree with your rational for rating a "superior" motorcycle and I'll respond respectfully as follows... You obviously define a motorcycle as "superior" based upon its relative top speed or HP compared to a "superbike." You need to realize that not all, in fact very few if any of us, share your view on that issue. If you purchased your S1W thinking that it would compete in speed and power with a superbike, well, you made a HUGE mistake. Who's fault was that? Buell's? And contrary to your assertion that a Buell owner probably has other bikes to rely upon or does not ride much, well I'm a Buell owner who not only rides across country on regular basis, but who also puts his same Buell on the track in competition. No, I don't wish for "bull shit to reign over fact" here. But I demand a certain level of decorum, especially from those individuals who act as representatives of this forum. Again, that is not "pc"; it is simply considerate and respectful. The overall tone of this thread, as Featheredfiend noted, is disappointingly antagonistic. YOU help set that unfortunate tone. | ||
| Rocketman |
There you go again putting words into my mouth. Man you're good at that. Court made a point blowing Buells trumpet at the same time. Fair play, nothing wrong with that, but it was bull shit. I merely pointed this out. Don't see why I should be courteous in doing so, after all it's not particularly courteous to post bull shit either. Now piss off and quit riding my back. Rocket | ||
| Ferris |
...which means Court is talking out of his arse as usual... ...I was merely making a mockery of Courts statement... ...If anyone's blowing anything Crust, it's Court as usual blowing smoke up Buells arse... ...Court, there's nothing loud or aggressive about pointing out most of the crap you write in Buells honour... ...What a pile of contrary bollocks. More like 'Court's Fables'... Rocket, you're a gifted and passionate writer, but i'm baffled as to why you think the personal insults you've directed toward Court are warranted. FB | ||
| Nevco1 |
Bads...Can't help you out with the name of the boots but you may want to just start searching the online discounters and boot manufacturers websites. With a color combo like that I would think that between Chaparrel, Dennis Kirk, Competition Accessories you should find the brand name. Once you figure out what they are, if Daves or Bubba can't get them for you, check out the Torque Center in New Berlin. They can get you anything and if you press them they will give you the online discounters pricing or real close to it. Also try the Honda/Ducati/Suzuki dealer in Waukesha and the Triumph dealer on North 76th Street in Milwaukee. All good local sources. Just be cautious with boot sizes. They vary so much that if you get stuck with a special order, the exchange could eat you alive. Then again, you probably have already learned that eons ago. Good Luck! PS: Next time don't forget to get a brochure or Biz card. LOL | ||
| Rocketman |
They're NOT PERSONAL INSULTS! They are criticism of his writing, or more, his bull shit. Rocket edited by rocketman on February 11, 2004 |
