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Gsilvernale
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 06:36 pm: | 
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I watched it - still do not know who to blame. To me it sounds like he is implying that Hedge fund manager's and people who played the market - legally - are to blame.
I look at it as we all got suckered, and since we don't have the ability or time to play the market, we should just stay out of it.
Back in the days of everybody got a pension, professionals guided the pensions. Now its all 401k, and we put our money down and get reamed.
So the real problem with the market, is 401Ks. THe mutual fund managers are to blame. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 06:41 pm: |
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Then there's the problem with the predatory lenders, who gave mortgages with the underlying motive of foreclosing.
In a time when the house market was hot, they tried to make a double killing. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 06:42 pm: |
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After viewing..I think we need MORE actual MANUFACTURING and less of the snake oil/Wall st. salesmen. Wall st.=Ponzi scheme.
It's human nature to steal,and that's what's happening on Wall st. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 09:06 pm: |
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If you want a guaranteed return, there are plenty of places to get one, even in your IRA.
If you want a higher return, you take risk.
Anyone that tells you different is not an "expert". |
Old_man
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 09:10 pm: |
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My IRA is considered a low risk.
I still took a loss, but I believe I will recoup before I have to take any out. |
Dynasport
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
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I have had the vast majority of my retirement account in an S&P 500 index fund. It is an investment I understand very well.
What I don't understand are all the "derivative" type investments that the investment banks put together that have collapsed and put the financial institutions in the shape they are in now. And for which we are bailing them out.
What is becoming clearer to me, and I am ashamed at myself for not understanding it earlier, is the complete lack of ethics or conscience so many of the people on Wall Street have. To me, the most telling part of the whole video was watching the clips of Cramer from 2006 telling how he manipulated stocks and advocated spreading false rumors about companies to manipulate stock prices. Any respect I had for Cramer died at that point.
I am really hoping my index funds make some sort of comeback and then I plan to get out of them. My retirement fund gives me limited options, but I can invest in government backed securities, which I plan to take advantage of. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 09:29 pm: |
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But that is not the point.
I believe the market was inflated well beyond its true value, by those who fell for the hucksters who were the ones making the money, gain or loss.
Even the President was on the band wagon to replace Social Security with this.
Meanwhile, these people were playing their games with our money.- Creating a house of cards that was bound to fall.
The health of our economy relies on all aspects of our country.
We cannot forsake a large segment and believe it will not affect the entire economy.
Loss of jobs does not just affect those who lose those jobs.
In the broad picture of our economy we all lose.
The profit takers of the stock market were not making profit from the profits of the companies that were the initial investment.
But by reselling at inflated prices, beyond the true value.
Reality has now struck - Who's left holding the bag? |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:06 am: |
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Got a mirror? |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:22 am: |
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Do you need a mirror? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:45 am: |
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Anyone who would depend on advice from Cramer for investing deserves to lose every cent.
He is a financial pornographer. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 01:07 am: |
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Cramer was really not the major problem.
He is just an example of what is wrong.
It was not his show, but what he HAD been doing when he was in the business that was eye opening.
He was one of the many abusing the system.
He was shown giving a primer on how to manipulate stocks.
Illegal, but it seems it was common practice. He inferred that the regulators were too stupid to catch on.
This was on an interview he did in 2006.
I never watched his or any other of that ilk show, giving advice on what to do with my money.
You really should watch the interview. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 01:24 am: |
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Sorry. Posting from BB.
I'll watch when I get a chance.
Don't care for Stewart or Cramer, so I'll hold my nose. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 01:39 am: |
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Ignore the usual silliness.
I got a better picture of what went on by this interview than anything else I had seen before.
I am no expert on the stock market.
My time was filled by my job.
But I always knew it was never a sure thing.
I'm basically not a gambler.
So, of the choices I had offered to me, I chose the one that they said was the safest, but with less return.
I never jumped on the band wagon.
I'm glad I didn't. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 07:26 am: |
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>>>I believe the market was inflated well beyond its true value, by those who fell for the hucksters who were the ones making the money, gain or loss.
I hold two parties largely responsible.
The folks in the congress who forced banks to abandon common sense and sound business practice in lending as a social engineering experiment.
The folks who were buying and flipping houses, thought their 2,000 cape cod was worth $850,000 and saw real estate appreciation at 15% a year as a federal entitlement program.
If you bought your house as an "investment" you were asking for trouble.
Some of what Cramer, who hasn't been on Wall Street since I was climbing poles, was describing was the classic "pimp and dump". It's unethical.
Cramer, a Magna Cum Laude graduate of Harvard College and a Harvard Law graduate, hasn't traded anything in the last 10 years since he's gotten into entertainment.
Trying to blame him risks diverting attention from the problems.
The federal government, with this silly spending plan, is doing about the same thing that Stewart accused Cramer of by assigning faux value to useless programs and sending the bill to innocent 3rd parties like you and I. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:17 pm: |
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+¥ ! |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 01:06 pm: |
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After viewing..I think we need MORE actual MANUFACTURING and less of the snake oil/Wall st. salesmen. Wall st.=Ponzi scheme.
As President Bush said, "Wall Street got drunk...... The question is how long will it sober up and not try to do all these fancy financial instruments." |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 02:56 pm: |
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Guys, let's not pretend that the "majority" of investors are Maw and Paw Kettle led along the rosy path by snake oil salesmen.
The vast majority of investors are institutional. These are not folks who are watching talking heads and looking for stock tips. Most of the investors are actually speaking directly with the companies' CEOs and CFOs. The analysts are doing the work that Cramer and others like him pretend to do.
I like Neil Cavuto, but he's no analyst.
Where there were laws and regulations in place to prevent fraudulent practices like Madoff and company, these laws were ignored and unenforced (much like immigration laws). Additionally, there were reactionary laws and social engineering that were being utilized in an effort to provide social benefit or prevent financial reporting misstatements. These were well meaning, but were misguided and resulted in unintended consequences.
Were there not the mark to market rules and were there not the CRA and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac collusion at the hands of Congress, NONE of the housing bubble would have occurred.
There will always be stock bubbles in one sector or another.
What's odd is that NO ONE is complaining about the oil speculators who drove up the price of oil through speculation and then lost their shirts in the collapse. Why is that?
Why is no one complaining about the tech bubble that occurred in the late 90's (of which I was a party in helping to create)?
Why is no one complaining about the injustice of the Beanie Baby bubble from the 90's?
Why is no one complaining about mini-bubbles that occur on Ebay?
Our GDP for 2007 was $13,811,200,000,000.
The largest ponzi scheme in history, Madoff's deal, was $50B.
That represents .362% of the 2007 GDP. The GDP is estimated to be at the $16T mark for 2009. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 03:09 pm: |
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I never bought into the idea that your house is an INVESTMENT to earn for you. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 03:21 pm: |
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>>>I never bought into the idea that your house is an INVESTMENT to earn for you.
Smart move.
Scary how many folks double mortgaged their homes and futures for a swimming pool or a BMW. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 03:53 pm: |
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The largest ponzi scheme in history, Madoff's deal, was $50B.
Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 03:59 pm: |
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Yeah, but there's no law against it.  |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 05:14 pm: |
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Social Security is the largest Ponzi scheme in history.
It cares for our elderly who can no longer work productively.There's NOTHING wrong with it in concept.It's just been hijacked to pay for everything OTHER than the elderly.
And now we're supposed to believe it's better off invested on Madoff Wall st.?
If we can get the Stock exchanges to come in line with the law i certainly would be for privatization.But Wall St. is suffering from the Madoffs' |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 05:21 pm: |
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And now we're supposed to believe it's better off invested on Madoff Wall st.?
You and I have had this conversation before.
You would be better off taking what YOU place into SS and burying it in the back yard. You will have a better rate of return than what you are going to get from social security.
You don't HAVE to invest it in the stock market. You could buy CDs or Annuities or whatever low risk investment you want.
If you WANT to leave it with the government, that's fine too. Just give ME the choice. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 05:55 pm: |
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 I'm satisfied with that.As long as the Government forces me to do it.
I recommend they TAX me,as long as i can direct the monies.
When i say Madoff,what i mean is having someone i do not trust handling it |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 06:19 pm: |
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Social Security is not an investment.
It is a tax.
Just like all the others we pay.
Kiss it goodbye. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 06:31 pm: |
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Social Security is not an investment.
It is a tax.
Just like all the others we pay.
It was NEVER meant to be. It was supposed to be an insurance based, actuarial system.
Re-read FDR's initial "pitch" for the plan.
Congress overrode FDR's Veto to convert the system to a "pay-go" system where as long as current taxes exceeded benefits paid, the excess could be spent "elsewhere". |
Old_man
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 07:06 pm: |
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Yes, that's how they sold it.
But, it's just another tax now. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 07:12 pm: |
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If there is ANY hope of saving the program, privatization is the answer.
There WILL be promises broken. I'd rather they were broken now while I have time to do something about it. |
Alchemy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 10:33 pm: |
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Here is a plan to save SS. Stupid of course but...
There are billions in loans to banks and AIG etc as part of TARP/stimulus etc on behalf of the taxpayers of the future.
Convert the loans into equity linked back to the SS system.
Our children pay the taxes on the Gov't debt but get the backing of the equity stake in support of their SS needs.
The investment today helps those about to retire now by more quickly restoring their present investments a little.
A trillion dollars invested in the market at this level should have a hefty payout in 20 years or so.
Nah, better to just wring hands about it than try to find a silver lining for our children. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 11:06 pm: |
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Why not just cut out the middle man and privatize AIG and the banking industry?
Would provide a better ROR than allowing part of earnings to go to stockholders, no? |
Swampy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 11:10 pm: |
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I am currently trying to buy a house, any house, what a racket, the realestate investors that have bought up the forclosed properties, and are selling them through realtors, are requiring buyers to apply for financing through specific mortgage lenders. so now the realestate investors are not only keeping the forclosed housing market high, but they are also making a crazy profit(normally a good thing) on thier property sale but they also are making commissions on loan originations and all sorts of closing stipulations!
The other thing about the investors is they are keeping the property prices artificially high, pre-realestate market bust days, even though in our area the housing market hasn't reached its low point yet, its almost like they are in denial.
Last week...buy Ford. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 12:07 pm: |
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Stewart - "Our wealth is work" Bingo !!...all this money for nothing crap built upon a house of cards with no intrinsic value is what has gotten us into this mess. Sure, lending to deadbeats was part of the problem but it's not the main problem. We, as a nation, need to get back to inventing and manufacturing things of real value and stop attempting to get rich from sitting at Starbucks day trading. |
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