| Author | Message | ||
     Dynarider |
Lets hear them. Is the Blast dead? Will XB sales rebound? Would a Revo powered bike raise sales? | ||
| Manutd |
As someone new to Buell and motorcycles in general, I do not find the Blast appealing. I would much rather Buell develop an XB6 or XB7 model as a "beginner" model. Seeing as funds are too limited to do the beginner bike first then move up to the XB model, I will have to wait for that "perfect" deal on a used XB and take the experience VERY slow. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Dyna Oh you need to get out more...oh wait you live in the frozen tondra my fault hell I was aggreeing with ya till you spoke of the V-rod. Now you know me thank god for that bike in the hd line up. you said "buell wishes they had those numbers" Hmm as you you say the sales numbers are from those at dealers not necessairly out the door. so theres always that. then lets put this perspective on it. hd produced what 250,000 bikes last year, something like that and 15,000 were v-rods well my math says thats only like 6 percent of the total sales. Damn that makes the v-rod look like a blast. even tho it is the best bike in the hd line up in my eyes. also to compare Buell numbers to harley is apples and oranges. way different amount of production, and most people buying buells are not quite as blind to a brand name as a hd customer. but anyways always remember the only bike that sales its self is an hd. the buells are sold in an atmosphere that is mostly unfriendly toward sportbikes. so if you have salepeople that are always walking people away from those bikes, and the dealer principal is not behind the product the numbers will never be there. put Buells in a atmosphere of energetic salepeople and trust me its different. how do I know this... well in june I took over the buell sales and everything else here. the salesdick(manager) said it would never work buells don't sale. well in a matter of 6 months buell sales here are up 500% compared to all of last year. so by the end of a full year what do you think it will be. Now what if every dealership had a dave stueve and a loveable fat boy like myself handling the buells. what would the sales numbers be. it ain't the bikes that are the problem it is the dealers that are representing them to the public. just a little food for thought. maybe I am wrong....but maybe not. I will add some more calculations just because I need to brush up on my math the drop in v-rod sales for 03 was a about 15% drop buell 02 vs 03 was about a 9% drop and 3rd quarter was about a 12% drop. so in actuality the v-rod is worse off than the buells. so I guess in your estimation than buell ain't doing so bad. atleast it ain't the flop that the V-rod was | ||
| Mikej |
"it ain't the bikes that are the problem it is the dealers that are representing them to the public. just a little food for thought. " That kind of sums up the general consensus of the whole overall picture when it comes to Buells. I still remember a few years ago walking in to a local Harley shop that sells many Buells to ask about an accessory that's made locally and sold internationally. The store owner said the manufacturer was just in the week before to show them those things. The owner went on to say he'd never put one on his bike and that they don't and won't carry them. The owner rides a Harley, 'nuf said. I wanted the part for my bike, not his, but if he won't own it he won't sell it. The part in question is the ThrottleMeister, the shop in question sponsors a Buell race team, they still don't carry the ThrottleMeister. I wanted one at the time, don't need one now, but will always remember that dialog. The key is the dealership representation and presentation and support of the product. Bubba, What's your honest 5-year projection for Harley sales and product mix and customer base? Not including Buells, just Harleys. If you don't mind answering. It was -4°F at my house this morning, -11°F just a few miles up the road. My fingers are just now thawing out. Today would not be a good day to ride. Bummer, wish it was 'cause I would. | ||
| Honu |
Having just bought my XB9R last month, here's what I experienced at my local dealer. The sales manager (a friend since high school) didn't even know the difference between the R and S models, had to dig thru his desk and other salesmens desks looking for the MSRP of the Buell's. This guy can quote you anything about the HD line off the top of his head. In their defense I can understand this when they are selling HD'S 2to3K over MSRP, this is where they are making their money, so that is their priority. I have to agree with B.F. the dealers have alot to do with the sales figures. Craig | ||
| Sarodude |
Maybe the Blast is due for a revision. A bike that people didn't feel they outgrew so quickly would be tres cool. I don't think the changes need to be radical, either. * Revise the ergos. The Blast has FOOT FORWARD ergos. WTF! Give the thing some more sport or standard ergos. Not hugely hunched over or anything. The Blast's ergos look too Harley influenced. * Revise the suspension. A bit of adjustability would be nice. That's all. No upside-down this & that. For me, that would be IT. Using the same motor would mean a simple cruise through the EPA tests. Using the existing platform would massivly cut costs. I mean, the difference would likely be similar to the R and S models. FWIW, I love the Blast. I ride ours any chance I get. It's a wonderful bike with a wonderful personality. -Saro | ||
| Sarodude |
PS... Most people think they've Graduated or Outgrown their beginner bikes WAY TOO SOON. Loli has put about 15,000 miles on our Blast. Due to her nature, she only really tries to boogie on roads she knows. She rides fantastically well. Not blisteringly quick or anything - just always in character and always ahead of the curve. She understands the discipline of the Line well enough to compose a steady, spirited, predictable, and respectful compromise. She rides The Pace without even knowing it. Just within our little Golden State Brag group I've seen a NUMBER of former Blastards who 'Graduated' to something bigger. Cracks me up when Loli's pulling away from 'em in the corners. Man, sometime's it's not even about quickness. You can just tell how well a situation was anticipated. But I digress... A large part of the 'Problem' with Blasts is really just rider ego. Usually the rider has more will than capability. "Sure, I can ride the bigger bike." Yeah, you'll ride it just like your Blast. Just an opinion. -Saro | ||
| Dullorb |
Speaking of the throttle meister. I parked my bike at a get together, had 50-80 bikes there and went looking around. When I got back some fucker had gone and stuck a card on my bike. Turns out it was for said throttle meister. So I said to myself, you know that was exactly what I told myself my first accessory had to be. So a little while later, went to the shop and got it installed. Just in time for my trip to CA. Directed marketing at it's best. | ||
| Mikej |
Dullorb, What shop did you get it from, or did you get it directly from Butler? I forget their website address, and only know approximately where they are located. Thanks. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
All I can throw in is that if your not energetic and passionate about what your selling then your not going to sell it!!!!Successfully!!!! Both Bubba and Dave show show passion, have energy and product knowledge coming out the ying yang. You bet if more retailers had that more Buells would be going out the door. The boys should find a way to bottle it and spread it around. | ||
| Dullorb |
I got it direct from them, they are just off of silver spring directly east of I-45 if memory serves. Only went there once but it seemed a nice little independant shop. Couldn't recommend them more, elegant in it's simplicity. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
mike I have no projections for harleys. I don't sell them. Its not really a care of mine. my five year for buell in my poor feeble mind is good. I believe the market is swinging towards a more sporty bike and crusiers will fall alittle. the last decade has been huge for them. and the fact that everyone is making them now to me means it over with. I have a theory that when the manufactures finally all jump on a band wagon the wheels are about ready to fall off. The reason I say this is because motorcyling itself is growing everyday, younger people have the money to buy these kinda toys these days and even tho hollywood is making stupid movies about sportbikes....they are still making movies about them. I believe buell will be right there for those of us that want them and understand them. I don't believe they are for the masses the way hondas and the like are. I believe they are for those of us that don't give a flying hoot about what so and so thinks or what a magazine editor says. we fly on our own path and decide we like what we like simply because it is what we want. Because if another manufacturer came out with something different and cool and good. I believe most of us would take a good hard look at it. but if it is just the same ol rehashed thing I don't thing we really care much. I know all this is long winded. My 5 year projection truely is I don't know. If I pretened to know what the public was thinking and wanting. I'd surely be thinking in the safest most boring terms and resting on my laurels because I was so smart. I mainly like buell because yes they look at what the public is asking for but that does not dictate what they make. there is a vision there and they seemed to stick to it. I admire that completely. I have never done what I was always supposed to do, but I have almost always done what I thought was right and what I wanted to do. yes there is more profit in blandness but... britney spears makes a shit load of dough...but that don't mean its good. it means it is liked by the sheep | ||
| Davefl |
I too have a throttle meister. Went on a trip D.C. in September via the Blue Ridge Parkway. It would almost be a crime to travel from Cherokee Alabama to Cherokee North Carolina and not stop at Deal's Gap. While at the Deal's Gap Motor Lodge I saw a display for them, liked it, and twenty min later it was installed on my S3 (by the way the greatest bike know to man). Did not help much on the Blue Ridge but I know it saved my hand on the trip back. We took the interstate to save some time from D.C. back to the Dragon. Just to keep on subject. They sell more in one year than was ever produced of the model that I am riding. Sounds pretty good to me. | ||
| Davegess |
Dyna, XB sales rebound? They had a 27% increase in sales over 12 months. What do they have to rebound from? Oh sure a very small decline over the last quarter, but I doubt that is a trend. I'm still thinkin' on th eBlast. | ||
| Dynarider |
Daveg....the sales for the last 12 are up on XB's. but dont forget that 2002 was a shortened year. The XB wasnt released to dealers until near the end of march 2002. Thats 3 months when they had no bikes at all to sell besides the Blast. If you took the sales figues from the other 3 qtrs of 2002 & do the math & magically add the 1st qtr in, 2002 would have easily beaten 2003. Sales for the 4th qtr of 2003 are down compared to the 3rd qtr as well as down compared to the 4th qtr of 2002. Sales increased for a short period directly after the release of the 12, but since then have cooled off quite a bit. 450 Buell dealers in the states & we can name about 4-5 that are any good. Problem with the V-Rod is similar to the Buells plight. Both are overpriced & not marketed very well. I really think the V-Rod should have come with the Buell nameplate attached to it. And yes the XB is overpriced. For the market that bike competes against its one of the most expensive bikes out there. Im not comparing it to the 999 Duc are the MV Agusta because that isnt its competition. Its the bikes that the kids buy that are the Buells competition. The CBR's, the Kawis, Suzuki, etc. Kid gets a job making $8-9-10 an hr & cab buy a bike..lets see is he gonna buy the one that has 120 hp & costs $7000 or will he spend $11,000 & get 92 hp & have his buddies pick on the "unrelaible lump"? Now I realize that Buell has come a long ways in regards to reliability issues with the XB's. They are no where near as bad as the X1's were. Could they be better? Sure anything can be better. But the word is still out there that "Buells break down". Just because a few of us on the web know differently, doesnt mean that has been communicated to the masses. They have that stigma & honestly I dont know if they will ever outgrow it. Drop the prices, get very aggressive with the ads, promote the reliability with actual numbers from a reputable firm such as JD Powers & let people know the facts. Otherwise its not going to change. Straight scoop is sales are down & no spin meister can change that fact. 1-2 or 20 Daves & Bubbas arent going to turn it around. Not when you are working against 450 other dealers who really could give 2 shits if Buell folded. | ||
| José_quiñones |
The Good: Buell has never made more Twins than in 2003 The Bad: They missed their production target, 12,500 units. The Ugly: Blast production was down 74% compared to 2002. My suggestions: For the Blast, update its looks and ergonomics to match the HD500R Dirt Track bike, increase the bore to make it a 550, put the XB top end in it so it can rev to 7500rpm. Keep the price the same but increase the P&A Blast catalog with upgraded suspension and more "track only" goodies. The XB's: lower the 9's to be closer to the 600's and the 12's closer to the magical 10k price point. Then give us the bike we really want. edited by josé_quiñones on January 22, 2004 | ||
| José_quiñones |
Dyna, be careful, compared to 2002, Buell Twin sales will surely be higher this year, it's just a question of how much and how it compares to the total US, European and Asian heavyweight (651cc+) motorcycle markets. The US was up 4.3%, Europe was down 3.5%, and Japan was down 7.4%. Once HD updates their website we can find out how many Buell twins were registered in these markets and compare them. | ||
| Dynarider |
Jose..I know the actual figures for the XB's are up compared to 2002. What I am saying is..take those missing 3 months of 2002 & add sales in based on what they did for the rest of that year & 2002 would have been better. | ||
| José_quiñones |
If HD knew how to do a pit stop Pascal Picotte would have won the Daytona 200, but it didn't happen that way did it? let's just stick to what actually happened  | ||
| José_quiñones |
FWIW: Suzuki takes top UK top sales spots | ||
| Dynarider |
Coulda/shoulda/wouldas are fun sometimes. But yea I suppose we can stick to what actually happened. | ||
| M2me |
I wonder if part of the reason that Blast sales are down so much is because they use them in those Riders Edge courses. Maybe dealers bought fleets of them in 2002 and haven't replaced them yet. | ||
| Rex |
Blast...yep, time for a little redo...I like the idea of a limited edition Flat track model with the heads and bore increased, bigger wheels, etc. but a little redo in looks is truly needed. I am sure that the initial riders course, etc. bumped the first years figures. Other buell models...yep a little lower price to bring them in line with the other makes would be good. but aren't Buell sales doing okay in Europe as well as the V rod, right? The General People are still waiting for the BUELL MOTOR, I believe. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Bubba, you hit on some good points. I for one don't give a rat's ass what some snot-nose twenty year old kid is riding. I don't care about 130+ MPH/140 RWHP 'cause there's nowhere I ride where that kind of behavior won't get your license revoked or you won't put some five year old kid and his mom in harm's way. Dealer attitude is EVERYTHING. I knew what I wanted. The first dealer I went to tried to steer me towards a Sportster. I didn't want a Sportster. When he couldn't sell me a Sportster he tried to charge me $11K for a 2 year old S3 that he tried to pass off as "new" 'cause it had never been titled. When I inquired about used Buells I was told that "We do get them in here once in a while" and that they'd let me know if "one happened to come along"... The second dealer I went to not only bent over backwards to find me the bike I wanted, but they also walked me through the financing, hooked me up with some add-ons and fit it all into a package I could afford. What really blew me away was when I came to look at the bike on a weekend as it was getting prepped for me to pick up, a young salesman I'd never spoken to before saw me looking at other bikes and very politely asked me if I'd like to go back in the service area and look at my bike...without my asking him! I didn't know who he was, but he knew who I was, what bike I'd bought, and no doubt why I was there. Now, that's attention to detail! That's also why I haven't been back to dealer #1 and won't, either. Don't let anyone tell you dealers like yourself and Dave don't make a difference. You do.  | ||
| Sfarson |
The Blast was a perfect beginner bike for my son. He followed me and we went everywhere. It actually was the reason I bought an M2. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
captain thats what I am talking about. glad things went well for ya Jose that is great history about pascal..and oh so right. Hurts to remember it tho. I love that Idea about the blasy. I would get one in a heart beat put a skid plate under it and sell my Triumph tiger....get it some more ground clearnce and then proceed to beat the livin crap out of it with a great big giant smile on my face | ||
| Bomber |
capkirk -- I thinkyou hit the nail on the head . . . the XBs are not competing against the big 4 sport bikes (not really much of a comparison) . .. without a pipeline into the Iron Tower, I can only guess at what bikes are targeted by HDI as BUell's competition . . . . and my guess would be a usful as anyone else's (that is, not very) . . .. Buells's are beating Guzzi and a number of other Italian niche bikes (and, IMO, Buellas are just that, niche bikes), and, without the figures at hand, I would guess are selling comparably to BMWs, as well . . . . .. Buell's got an uphill marketing tawsk, no doubt, but I think they're on the right path . . .a buncha younger riders are not as intimate with the past as some of the silver-backs round here are, and may be more open-minded about buying a Buell at the end of the day, a bike is worth what you wish to pay for it . . . .. . if enough people buy it at that price point, it's priced right -- if not (and if price is the major determining factor), it ain't . . . .simple, yes? {grin} | ||
| José_quiñones |
148 BMW dealers sold 15,299 BMW bikes in the US in 2003.
| ||
| Bomber |
a considerable difference in Buell vs BMW sales . . .thanks for the data, sir | ||
| Dynarider |
And 1/3rd of the dealers also. Approximately 450 of the more than 700 HD shops also claim to sell Buell. That works out to an average of about 21 Buells..XB's & Blasts combined..per shop. And a little over 103 BMW's per shop sold. So BMW on a per shop basis is doing 500% more in sales. |
