| Author | Message | ||
     Xbduck |
O.K. here goes from the land of Hershey almost south. Hershey Chocolate has a plant here in Stuarts Draft, VIRGINIA, USA!!!! They have increased production here greatly. They have added new lines of production and are even making products for Peter/Paul under a licensing agreement. Virginia is a right to work state, Hershey here has no union, however my sister and her co-workers, many I call friends are well paid. Are they top union wages? No, however they do well. So please by all means stop purchasing their products, it will give me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing my friends want my sister out of one of the few jobs left in my area. I used to work for DuPont making Lycra spandex, and all the jokes about fat women in spandex made them stop buying it and that put me out of a job. O.K. this paragraph was meant in jest, however please find out all the facts before passing judgment. I'm certain that Hershey will begin production in Mexico, just not as fast and a furious as you might think. I believe after talking with a few Hershey people years ago when I was a construction worker at their Stuarts Draft plant, some in the upper management wanted to get away from the Hershey Pennsylvania legacy and the old plant couldn't be renovated at a reasonable price. Sorry for rambling on about this, I just thought you might like to know that there was more to this than you have heard. | ||
| Xbduck |
A side note to this, when I talked with my sister about where they put some of the production she started with, "do you remember where your shop was way out in back? Well that's gone." Since I know what amount of construction that took, I would say they have too much money invested here to roll every thing up and carry it off to Mexico in this less than warm economy. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
"booze seems to be doing well. less than before, but if there was ever a time to drink and drown a few sorrows..." I've noticed the local bar packed to the gills the last month or so on Friday and Saturday nights.......... It was normal for it to be about half packed. Not sure why the sudden popularity the joint seems to be enjoying. I go to that bar on Saturdays for lunch with the guys. We show up at 1:00 so we get quicker service.......but the same deal..........it's a lot fuller now, even after the normal dinner hour. | ||
| Ourdee |
I wrote to hershey stating what I wrote above when I wrote it. I will see what they do or don't have to say. Saying nothing = lost customer. Is that fair enough? | ||
| Xbduck |
Ourdee, absolutely!! | ||
| P_squared |
How DARE those greedy CEO's make a decision to close a plant that may not meet the profitability needs and long term growth goals of the company! <sarcasm> I'd be interested in knowing all the FACTS behind the decision, but since I'm not a shareholder, they have no obligation to TELL me the reasons for the decision. Can anyone tell me the last time a US corporation closed a plant for the sole purpose of Union Busting? So, can we leave off with the union bashing & cheerleading? In today's environment, it COSTS money to close a plant, so corporations don't make the decision lightly. From Hershey's 4Q08 earning's report: "Net income from operations, which is adjusted to exclude the net charges for the full years 2008 and 2007, was $430,522,000 or $1.88 per share-diluted in 2008, compared with $481,807,000, or $2.08 per share-diluted in 2007, a decrease of 9.6 percent in earnings per share-diluted." Unless I'm a complete idiot, that means they 'lost' ~$51M in '08 as compared to '07. The moved manufacturing from their California & Canada plants to Mexico this year as well. It looks to me like they're trying to survive as a company, not "steal/trample/screw over" the workers. Just my opinion, which I'm sure not everyone will agree with, so YMMV. Countdown to backfire board in: 3...2...1... | ||
| Old_man |
They didn't LOSE a penny. They didn't make as much as last year. They did lose a customer though. | ||
| P_squared |
In the world of corporate profit/loss, they did 'lose' money. That's the point. If revenues keep declining, eventually, you go bankrupt. It's the CEO's and Board's responsibility to keep the company growing, which is measured by profit. If you make less profit this year, than you did the year before, you are on the road to death as a corporation. You have to return to growth & profitability. Don't get me wrong by thinking I 'like' the decision, as I think that company, in that town, is a NATIONAL landmark. I've even visited a few times when I lived on the East Coast. My point is that unless someone is willing to give them a 'break' that they believe will get them back to growing, then the only other choices are to move where it costs less, or die. That's it. Those are the choices. So again, I believe ALL of the reasons for the decision to close & move, are not so simple and single focused as some would believe as they've posted on this thread. Instead of hating them, why not find out what the root reasons for the decision are? Is it all labor costs? Doubtful, but I'm sure it had SOMETHING to do with the decsion. Is it all taxes? Doubtful again, but again, I'm sure it had SOMETHING to do with the decision. Are there any other contributing factors to the decision? I'm sure there are. I'm not so sure those who aren't shareholders will ever know though. | ||
| Old_man |
I doubt that the biggest candy maker had to worry about going under. Like all businesses some years are better than others. They made a profit, even after the expense of building in Mexico. | ||
| Slaughter |
Until we are ALL willing to pay what goods actually cost to produce domestically, there is no hope. Search for domestically produced things - using the "new" Levis (Egyptian cotton, Central American assembly) - they are thought to be expensive at $45 a pair yet when you investigate US-sourced/produced denim jeans, you are looking at over $100. How many of you reading this are wearing domestically produced clothing? Food? We have "outsourced in place" with the production given over to foreign nationals here in-country. Ditto the harvesting. Get used to it, don't complain about it when you are DEMANDING IT happen the way it is! (Message edited by slaughter on February 22, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
So you would rahter have them continue to experience deteriorating profits, and eventually go under? I know that's a loaded question, but that's the end result of your logic as I read it. Or is there a certain threshold of 'acceptable profit' which they can operate at? If that's your defense, then please explain what that # is & why it is. I'd call an 11% drop pretty significant, not just a "bad year". | ||
| Old_man |
Maybe the drop was due to the expense of building a new factory in Mexico. That couldn't have been cheap. | ||
| P_squared |
-9.6% in ‘08 -19.4% in ‘07 -8.2% in ‘06 (Source: Hershey 'newsroom' from their corporate site.) Three years in a row of SIGNIFICANTLY declining revenue. That includes BEFORE they decided to move to Mexico. I don't think the drop is all the Mexico factory based on those #'s. That's a trend of declining revenues. Like I said, I don't think the reasons for the move are as simple as some on here would lead the rest of us to believe. I don't like it, but I won't condemn the company for the decision based upon those #'s. | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
Have you ever thought that maybe we are ALL the cause of what we call "corporate greed"? We demand jobs that pay $100k per year and then shop around for the best deal which HAS to be some crap made in china because the labor that produced it is so cheap (keeping profits up). Then, those same $100K per year jobs get outsourced to india or in this case, mexico, because the labor is so cheap (which lets the product "compete" for our $$$) and we get pissed that we dont make $100k a year anymore and cant buy the f'ing stock and are 401k plumments and oh! my! GOD!!!! CORPORATE GREED? | ||
| Old_man |
If it continues I fear our country will be just like Mexico. At least, then, we won't have to worry about the illegal aliens coming here. | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
We'll be sneaking into india and cleaning toilets for $50 an hour because "no indian will do those jobs"! | ||
| Old_man |
If ALL the manufacturers move out of our country to keep from paying their workers here a decent wage. Who will be left here able to buy their products. | ||
| P_squared |
No one. We all know that. So the real question that impacts us all is, "What do WE have to do to keep them here?" To get to that answer isn't easy, since it involves the corporations, the shareholders, the consumers & the government. Corporations & shareholders need to make profit. Consumers want a competitive price. Government wants $$$ from both sides. Let me know if you find an answer that makes everyone happy, because I haven't been able to yet. | ||
| Old_man |
If it continues no one will be happy. Corporations & shareholders included. The laid off workers are already unhappy. | ||
| P_squared |
Do you honestly think Hershey is 'happy' to be closing this plant, their 'birthplace'? I'd wager that they aren't happy with the decision. I'd also wager that they were left with no other viable choice when they made the decision. I'd also wager that shareholders haven't been happy with Hershey for the past 3 years. I'd also wager that the government (local, state & federal) won't be happy with losing the revenue stream. That only leaves the consumers. Most of them will remain happy as long as they can buy their chocolate CHEAP. So who's really being 'greedy' here? | ||
| Just_ziptab |
"What do WE have to do to keep them here?" We have to figure out what the American companies are doing right that keep them here. There are tons of US manufacturing plants that bring in raw material and ship out finished product. Follow THAT business model and we are in the clear. I would guess that THOSE companies are not controlled by stock holders(greed). Get rid of stock holder power/greed? | ||
| Ducxl |
Why is it that,in Capitalism,the only way to survive is to continuously be GROWING? If "THAT'S" Capitalism.====FAILURE Why do i hear the mantra "growing or dying". Does sustainance mean failure? I'm going to get to the bottom of this.I have my trusty pen and will scour CNBC,NBC,CNN,and Mrs. Pauls.I'll take my "cliff notes" and make a more informed response  . Oh,yeah...I wrote off the Hershey's brand months ago.Levi's too,Slaughter.Now i only wear "AG" and "Sevin" branded AMERICAN jeans.I don't mind the Italian jeans | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Does sustainance mean failure? Yep. | ||
| Alchemy |
Everything passes away when it's time has come and so will capitalism. It's a good thing but far from perfect. The challenge is to open our minds enough to allow the possibility that there may be something better trying to be born. What we have today is hardly capitalism in the first place as I see it. | ||
| Limitedx1 |
it just seems to me that the rich get richer and they do it at the expense of everyone else in the country. im not jealous of anyone because anyone could catch a break at anytime. but at least make it a little more even. | ||
| Paw |
Can anyone tell me the last time a US corporation closed a plant for the sole purpose of Union Busting? So, can we leave off with the union bashing & cheerleading? I got you covered...Have you ever heard of a company called Caterpillar...I use to live in York, PA and Cat did just that buck in 1996 give or take a year...Those guy were on the picket line for well over a year untill Cat. brought in SCABS to finish orders left in the York plant untill they could packed it all up and move the work to other factories in America and abroad. So i would have to say the last plant to close just to bust union is about 12 years ago. And the Cat. CEO became an icon in the manufacturing business for doing it. Everyone who was upper management patted him on the back for doing what he did...The over paid a$$holes congratulated him for destroying thousands of families lively hoods just for the almighty dollar. And he did not lose and ounce of sleep over it guaranteed!!! He just stuffed his mattress with the millions in bonuses he got for doing it!!! | ||
| P_squared |
So Caterpillar, ~12 yrs. ago? "Those guy were on the picket line for well over a year..." And a year long strike had nothing to do with that decision? There's always at least 2 sides to every story, and I'm yet to be convinced it's JUST the 'evil/greedy' corporations, or the 'innocent' workers that are the root problem. It takes 2 to tango. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
How does "growth" work,long term? They make more money,you make more money....they make more money,you make more money....they make more money,you make more money.................and then the line on the graft goes balistic.......and here we are today! | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Until we are ALL willing to pay what goods actually cost to produce domestically, there is no hope. So true, if we buy stuff made overseas, and shop at companys that employ overseas all we do is incorauge them to continue on that path. I think it's a vicious cycle. We buy the cheapest widgets we can so the companys make tye cheapest widgets they can. Then we get laid off and can't buy any widgets. In other words we are as greedy as the companys are. Most consumers will shop at the big W Or Big home store with no customer service and no decent wage to save a buck. We then put the stores that pay well and care out of bus. then we bitch about it. | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Until we are ALL willing to pay what goods actually cost to produce domestically, there is no hope." That may be the issue with lots of things, but I don't think it's the only problem. If Carhartt can make jeans in the USA, sell them for around $35.00, and make what they think is an acceptable profit, then there isn't any reason my girlfriend's $100.00 jeans have to be made by kids in Malaysia to make a profit. If Fox Creek Leather can turn out a beautiful heavy $425 classic leather jacket and sell it at a profit, there in no reason Harley has to import their $425 classic biker jacket to make a profit. I stole this from an online article and I think it says a lot about what's happening right now. In fact, Henry Ford shifted things on the exact opposite way things are shifting now. He doubled wages and cut the work day by an hour so that his employees had money to buy American products (his cars). It also gave them more free time to spend the extra wages (on American products). He fought unions, but from what I have read, he was the sort of employer who fought them by trying to make them pointless. He also kept control of his suppliers by owning nearly every single one of them and bringing his business model to those plants too. It's a good business model, and I don't see any reason it couldn't be used again today. "The same year (1914), Henry Ford shocked the world with what probably stands as his greatest contribution ever: the $5-a-day minimum-wage scheme. The average wage in the auto industry then was $2.34 for a 9-hr. shift. Ford not only doubled that, he also shaved an hour off the workday. In those years it was unthinkable that a guy could be paid that much for doing something that didn't involve an awful lot of training or education. The Wall Street Journal called the plan "an economic crime," and critics everywhere heaped "Fordism" with equal scorn. But as the wage increased later to a daily $10, it proved a critical component of Ford's quest to make the automobile accessible to all. The critics were too stupid to comprehend that because Ford had lowered his costs per car, the higher wages didn't matter — except for making it feasible for more people to buy cars." |
