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Hitman44139
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 03:55 pm: | 
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You realize there is a difference between a TV and a human being?
DBird.... BTW yes I do in the line of work I do I do know the difference first hand. I see the seriousness in this thread. My comment was in light of what did the TV do to the old guy that shot it... so your sarcasm is rather ignorant. Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I see your passionate about TV's.
Not trying to start anything just saying.....
(Message edited by Hitman44139 on February 23, 2009) |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 04:08 pm: |
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Nobody even mentioned poison.
Much, much easier than a gun. Less messy too.
I think the fault here is the media. The news is why some folks think guns are bad or should be controled, whether it's access, posession, age limits or whatever.
For that reason weapons familiarity and training are reduced over time and generations.
It's also why were are having this rather crappy debate.
If everyone knew and agreed on why we have the right to keep and bear arms*, there would be no debate and the second ammendment would be untouched and as originally written. Our kids would be familliar with weapons and with what the weapons do.
A child that has issues needs help and needs to be kept safe. This includes keeping him away from anything dangerous or harmfull be it a weapon, flight of stairs or whatever.
*It's to protect us (Law abiding citizens) from them (The government{for the people. By the people}) |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
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Destroy all personal forearms, legalize swords! Something that requires a little skill... no more drive-by's, anyway....
(I'm just joking, though it WOULD be cool to be allowed a sword in public....  )
~SM |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 05:14 pm: |
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Personally My kids can look at shoot clean my guns anytime they want. As long as they're with me. But I don't leave them out of the safe. That's just me, I think every parent should be responsable for that decision. But I do wonder if that child was ever around guns, in the sense of training, safety and shooting. That usually gives people more respect for firearms. BTW here in The republic of Kalifornia if somebody does something with your gun, you're f*ed. I had a neighbor leave his out and loaded and when he went to work his kid was showing it to another kid and shot him in the arm (thank God not bad) The father went to jail. |
Hitman44139
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 06:00 pm: |
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Personally My kids can look at shoot clean my guns anytime they want. As long as they're with me. But I don't leave them out of the safe.
If everyone did that we all would be safer.. How many times a have taught a class and someone has pointed a gun at me... not good. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 06:10 pm: |
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I TRULY believe that woman would be alive and well today if that child didn't have that gun.
You will believe what you will, but, from my viewpoint, without that gun in his hands that poor woman and her unborn child would be fine today. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 07:51 pm: |
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I believe you believe that Old_man.
I don't happen to share that belief, as stated previously.
The kid woke up & decided it was time for her to die, before he went to school. He could have very easily accomplished the same fate using a different implement.
I agree the adults are responsible for allowing what appears to be an unstable, immature child unlimited access to a firearm, but I don't believe it changes the outcome.
The 'slippery slope' here is what crime do you charge the adult(s) with? And do you use this as a means for legislating stricter 'requirements' for firearm ownership? All of this of course under the guise of 'common sense' and 'protecting the children.'
Again, it is a saddening tragedy, I'm in total agreement. But I fear the focus will be on the firearm instead of the perpetrator. |
Danny_h__jesternut
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 08:18 pm: |
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I don't trust YOUR kid with a gun. Don't take it personal, I'm not knocking you or the way you raised up the little darlings. Why should I trust a kid. Kids are not trust worthy, they ain't lived long enough yet to have earned any trust. Their kids, who knows what gets into their little minds. Don't be to hard on um when they misbehave, they may deem you expendable, sleep well, HA HA. |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 08:28 pm: |
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"I believe you believe that Old_man.
I don't happen to share that belief, as stated previously.
The kid woke up & decided it was time for her to die, before he went to school. He could have very easily accomplished the same fate using a different implement.
I agree the adults are responsible for allowing what appears to be an unstable, immature child unlimited access to a firearm, but I don't believe it changes the outcome.
The 'slippery slope' here is what crime do you charge the adult(s) with? And do you use this as a means for legislating stricter 'requirements' for firearm ownership? All of this of course under the guise of 'common sense' and 'protecting the children.'
Again, it is a saddening tragedy, I'm in total agreement. But I fear the focus will be on the firearm instead of the perpetrator."
+1
And I would like to add that I respect your opinion and past experience very much Old Man. It's obvious to me that you are much more qualified than me on this subject.
My fear is that this incident is going to be another brick in the wall that is being built to remove MY rights. I hope you understand.
Dan |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 08:34 pm: |
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I TRULY believe that the kid was a psycho and that were it not his dad's girlfriend today it would have been a string of hookers at truck stops or house wives in Tulsa, tied gagged and skinned alive.
I TRULY believe that the murder of his father's girlfriend was the responsibility of the father and that, although tragic, probably saved the rest of society from having to deal with the tragedy of having this guy murder THEIR loved one.
The cool thing is that we have LAWS in place to deal with this type of occurrence. It's called jail. After someone commits a crime, we try them and convict them. They serve time.
The risk of jail time prevents sane people from committing crimes. Laws do nothing to prevent psychos from committing crimes. No matter how many laws you enact and how many control measures, and trigger locks, and gun safes, and restrictions, and permits, and licenses, and whatever you pile on, a psycho is going to do what a psycho is going to do.
The father (and murdered woman) should have identified this kid as a psycho and acted accordingly.
My kid has Aspergers. I don't expect him to act like a "normal" kid would. This kid didn't just wake up one day and pump a round into his dad's girlfriend. How many family cats and dogs had the kid shot with the shotgun? How many mutilated squirrels did they find? Did they feel uncomfortable leaving this kid alone with the four year old daughter?
There were signs. They were ignored.
The father and his girlfriend are to blame. Maybe we should outlaw a$$hats who are shacking up with women, getting them pregnant, and being generally $hitty fathers. He would never have had access to a gun and been psycho were he not to have a bad father.
Blaming the gun is stupid.
I TRULY believe that. That and the kid is psycho. I TRULY believe that too. |
Slowride
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 09:43 pm: |
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old_man,
I typically refrain from these topics due to my rural up bringing and US Marine corp service. I have a very distinct view of these types of situations....
but old_man you are wrong!
All the arguments have been made and a jury of your peers have judged you wrong.
Let it go and move on back to Buells. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:13 pm: |
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Slowride
So you believe children should be given free and ready access to firearms. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
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I do. But then again we've already established that I had my 1st 20 ga. at the age of 10.  |
Old_man
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:28 pm: |
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I had a 12 ga. at 10
A good idea for MOST children? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:32 pm: |
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A good idea for MOST children?
Maybe not, but isn't that the call of the PARENT?
Or do you espouse that the government should be the arbiter of what is good and right instead of the parent? |
Old_man
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:47 pm: |
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Yes, I don't think children should have access to firearms without adult supervision.
I trained my children in the proper use of firearms.
I have guns in the house and it was the prudent thing to do.
But they didn't have free access to them without adult supervision. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:00 pm: |
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So you propose that as legislation?
I agree parents should ensure their children are properly trained, mentally & emotionally developed to handle the responsibility. But that is the role of the family, not the government.
You admit to having your own shotgun at 10, same as others here. You nor I shot a woman in the back of the head while she slept. The kid has ISSUES, and recent updates indicate it was premeditated. If the shotgun hadn't been there, he would have used something else.
Help to educate & "lead by example" I'm all for. Legislating a family's role I'm against. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:11 pm: |
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But since Slowride has appointed himself the Judge, I must accept that you think I am wrong.
Although I thought it more a hung jury.
Slowride from his rural up-bringing and being an ex-Marine (oh, no such thing), I'm sure he must be right.
I have had my chance to express my views,
I appreciate your listening.
I hope all who have guns in their home give some thought to what I have said.
I have personally had to deal with many of this type of tragedy.
There is no justice in these situations.
I will say no more.
Thank you again. |
Slowride
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:29 pm: |
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Great!
Lets kill this thread... |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:07 am: |
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The Hitman going with the "I was serious first" post.
You are right.
Feel better?
Make sure the 11 year old wackos can't get ATV or dirt bikes either.
Here let me edit that.
(Message edited by dbird29 on February 24, 2009) |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:21 am: |
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Two men killed by their sons in Tripura
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Agartala, Feb 3 (IANS) Two men, one as old as 70 years, were killed by their own sons in two incidents of patricide in Tripura following family quarrels, the police said here Monday.
A police spokesperson said Saptami Tripura, 70, and Budhirai Debbarma, 41, a teacher, were hacked to death by their sons late Sunday in south and west Tripura districts respectively.
The police have arrested Tripura's son, while Budhirai's attacker is absconding.
"Family disputes were reasons for both the crimes," the police official said.
Ooops not 11 years old, can't happen. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:50 am: |
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Now if we just had a law that prohibited "hacking" tools from being in the hands of family members, the world would be perfect. |
Hitman44139
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 09:13 am: |
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 HGAF
Agreed this thread should die! It's a never ending battle of almost good versus evil.
(Message edited by Hitman44139 on February 24, 2009) |
Kyrocket
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:26 am: |
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Let me throw this out there. I've been reading this since it started and have been hesitant to add. When my wife and I were dating in '94 her cousin got up one morning and had to decide if he would run away or kill his family. He decided to kill. Mother, father, and two young sisters, all dead at the hands of a family member. He had everything he wanted, lived in a nice house with a pool, had a car and had weapons training and had his own weapons.
It wasn't the gun's fault that family is no longer with us. If left alone that gun would still be there today. If someone is gonna freak, they're gonna freak. Gun, knife, hammer, Q-tip whatever, it doesn't matter. Whatever is within their reach or available to them that's what they'll use. I'm not so sure I'd have guns outside a safe with young kids but growing up my dad had a gun cabinet with several shotguns in it and that was just a way of life. I honestly believe todays video games and media have desensitized the youth. Grand theft auto will let someone kill, maim, steal and run amuck, you die, push a button and everything is back to normal. That has to have an effect to some extent. Turn on the news today and all you hear is shooting, stabbing, death and destruction. To me this will always be home of the free and land of the brave, don't take my freedoms because someone is irresponsible. Take their freedoms because they were. Let 'em rot. I think there is something more to the original story and we're being told. It's a shame it happened but like the Bible says, there's nothing new under the sun. It's been going on forever. If you don't want guns, fine, don't have guns but don't deny me the right to my second amendment. Just my .02. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:49 am: |
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What the hell are you guys even debating here? Whether or not a 10 year old should have unsupervised access to firearms? Seriously? That's what it looks like. Hell, 10 year olds shouldn't even have unsupervised access to television. 
~SM |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:50 am: |
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You are correct Good vs. Evil.
Sad stuff. |
Greenlantern
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:07 am: |
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What the hell are you guys even debating here? Whether or not a 10 year old should have unsupervised access to firearms? Seriously? That's what it looks like. Hell, 10 year olds shouldn't even have unsupervised access to television.
That common sense stuff pisses me off to no end. How people like Old_man and yourself question the factually based debate in progress. Please save your "logic" for Star Trek conventions, real life demands the tried and true institution of conjecture and hearsay! |
Hitman44139
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:43 am: |
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That common sense stuff pisses me off to no end. How people like Old_man and yourself question the factually based debate in progress. Please save your "logic" for Star Trek conventions, real life demands the tried and true institution of conjecture and hearsay!
   |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 03:24 pm: |
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I think you all are sick to want to remove children arms!
You guys are sick! |
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