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Teofan
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just put money down on a 2000 X1 with the race module installed. Will the PCIII be a benefit? Power Commander has discontinued them new so I'll have to locate one from a dealer or e-bay. Are there alternate modules like the Power Commmander? Who manufactures them? Thanks in advance!!
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Easyflier
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Teo,

Dynojet makes the PC, Techlusion also builds an equivalent. The PC also benefits from the HIPO O2 sensor, not sure if the Techlusion does or not (or if it's even needed with the Techlusion technology).

I don't own an X1 so I can't say how much improvement you would get. I do have one on my XB though and I think it improved rideability off idle to WOT.
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M1combat
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I know where there's a PCIII sitting on a shelf...
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Teofan
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

After I posted my message I searched the archive for info and found that a lot of guys recommend that you shouldn't use the PC if you have a race ECM. Is this true? Perhaps that's why Power Commander stopped production. I noticed some stutter at a slight lug on the engine. I should ride the thing before I tear into it.
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Dynarider
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Its hit or miss with the PC. Some folks swear by them, others swear at them.

Personally I dont think they are needed on the Buells.
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Easyflier
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dyna,

Why don't you think they are needed?
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Dynarider
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just one more thing to go wrong. have heard to many complaints from people who had them & once they removed the pc the problem went away. Have heard good things about techlusions setup tho.
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Easyflier
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well people who have problems tend to complain. The PCIII hasn't given me any problems on my XB whatsoever. Because of the number of connections there are plenty of opportunities for people to induce problems if they aren't careful, but that's the same for any bolt-on performance enhancing part.

The caveat of course is that it takes a good shop to properly get one tuned for a Buell. Considering the number of HD/Buell shops that need 3 tries at resetting a TPS the odds of some independent DynoJet shop not getting it right is pretty great too.

On a similar note, the kid that mapped mine said they spent a whole day of training on Buells but were basically told by DynoJet "try to avoid them". Apparently the Buell ECM is a very good unit so the benefits aren't as great as might be had with a foreign bike. Additionally the O2 sensor gives the motor the ability to run a little richer below 3-3500rpm where the PCIII won't map a Buell and it relies on the ECM. (Stoichiometric of 12.5:1 instead of 13.7:1 if I recall correctly). Something relatively easy to do with a carburetor, not so easy without a black box on FI.

I was just curious as to how you came to your opinion on them. We all have opinions, I like to know how they were arrived at. : )
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Wyckedflesh
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

All the complaints I have ever heard of regarding PCIII has been from unmodified bike owners. They took a PCIII and put it on a bone stock bike. Anyone I know who has a modified bike with more then just an airfilter doesn't have any problems. That is however in relation to ricerockets. PCIII and Buell I have no clue about, but it is interesting that there is a PCIII for the V-rod...
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Dynarider
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Remember to that all of the ones I have heard of were on tube framed bikes also. Havent really heard of a lot of people with XB's going with the pc.

based my opinion on what I heard & witnessed on other bikes. Plus with my X1 it never coughed or idled poorly, made good power, etc. I dont think a pc would have added anything. havent seen a dyno chart where the pc really improved the hp any significant amount.

Like I said, some love the pc, others scorn them. I have no personal experience with one, but if enough folks have a bad experience with it, then I would tend to shy away from getting one.
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Dynarider
Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Wycked, I would agree that one a modified bike..ie one thats had headwork, a high flow pipe..not just a slipon muffler, cams, etc etc. Then a pc with a proper map would most likely be required to get the most out of it.

But as you pointed out, some people think that just by slapping a pc on a stock bike they will see some magical gains & its just not going to happen.
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M1combat
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So, if a person knows where to get one... would it be worth while to pick it up now and do the work to the bike later? Are they necessary for stuff like stage two Nallin work and the proper breathing apparatus?
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Dynarider
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You would be better off asking Aaron if he feels the pc would be necessary.
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Ray_maines
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Or hit the KV and do a search for the relevent Dyno Charts. From memory, the "Race" ecm is a good and proper improvement for a X1 but a PCIII deally doesn't bring anything more to the party. You might be better off spending your PCIII money on a Race Tech kit for your front forks. As always, YAMMV.
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Nevco1
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Teofan...Check my profile for mods to my 2000 X1.

Race ECM and Techlusion DFO with all the other stuff and a full dyno tune resulted in 94+ RWHP. Could have gotten a few more but I had it tuned for the real world. That is Low and Mid range.
Works great.

No stumbles, surges or lean spots anywhere. Without the DFO, the race ECM still left me with lean spots that could cause premature engine failure.

Am no wrench, but from what I understand, the DFO is simply like rejetting a carb and does not effect the ECM's mapping. The inverse is the PC did that and played a tad with the mapping which is where it got complicated and folks created their own problems.

Also, check out the X1 Files for constantly updated info on the bike. Is a summary of X1 information from this and other Buell Boards. I found it to be priceless and a lot easier to navigate than the Knowledge Vault.
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Teofan
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks a lot for all the replies. When I get the bike and start sorting it out I'll decide on what I want to do. First off I have to get the thing home....
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M1combat
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, hurry up then...
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Teofan
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's 10 degrees here with 3+ inches of snow comming. It can wait.
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Mbsween
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Steve,
I have a pcii on a 2001 X1 with force intake and white bros pipe. I don't have the Hi-perf o2 sensor.

I don't think it added any power, but it did knock out a bunch of hiccuping and such. The bike used to backfire every now and again when riding for a long time at steady throttle. Gas mileage remains the same 45-50ish going easy and less pushing it.

Its a cool thing to muck around with if you have a laptop (or a desktop in the garage I suppose). If you want one check out K&Ns site, they'll sell you a PCII cheap.

https://secure.oc-net.com/ecomm/kn/pc2.cfm

There was a Motorcyclist write up of a PCII on a ST3. I'll poke around and see if I can find it. They claimed a couple ponies and a smoother ride.

One thing is the header (stock) has gotten to be a deeper brown, I'm assuming from a richer idle mixture.






Matt
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Thunderbolt_dad
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Have had the PCIII, now have the techlusion, lost 1 HP in the transition, but also removed the HIPO O2 sensor (techlusion is NOT equipped for it, period). The PCIII started to cause faults with my S3, I do believe it was an 'injector grounding' type of fault, and was told that this was actually a known problem and was an indication of the PCIII failing. All this in less than 6 months of use. Have had the Techlusion on for 4 months without a hitch.
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Nevco1
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Its a cool thing to muck around with if you have a laptop (or a desktop in the garage I suppose).

Question: Wouldn't working with the mapping without running the bike on a dyno with an exhaust analyzer be inviting lean run problems (read: premature engine failure)?

Just wondering, as I chose the Techlusion DFO and had the entire dyno tune process explained to me while I watched. During the tune, I was presented with options concerning how I wanted the bike set up. I chose low and mid range power with no lean spots vs high end max hp as the engine would be more reliable.

My major premise is that on the road, riding skill and engine reliability is priceless compared to a few extra ponies and waiting for a tow. Especially up north where the riding season is too darned short to begin with.

Incidentally, as both were in stock, I also received the info on the difference between the PC and the DFO. Nothing really wrong with the PC except for additional cost and little if any additional benefit once dyno tuned.

The major negative to the PC was that it invited shade tree mechanics to try and add a little more zip without the benefit of knowing whether they were helping or killing their engines.

I guess that is fine if you are into tearing down your engine and R&R'ing parts on an as needed/required basis like a race team. I just felt that it would be a negative considering where and how I like to ride.

Ok, quit laughing. I just read what I wrote and had to laugh a little too. It is all true, but I think the main difference is I like to ride, not wrench. Ergo, I rely on the dealers and independent specialists. Additionally, if I get stranded out in BF Egypt, I am stuck waiting/paying for a tow as neither I nor any of my friends have a truck or trailer to get the bike back home. I am clueless what a 100 to 200 mile tow costs in Wisconsin, but am definitely not anxious to find out.
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