| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
The other day I was riding from Prescott AZ to Wilhoit AZ along Hwy 89. It's a very twisty section of road about 10 miles or so long and only about a half of a mile from my driveway. When I pulled onto 89 I ended up behind a red Dodge truck. I meandered along behind him figuring I may as well let it warm up a bit more before I try any passing. The next passing lane is about 5 miles into the ride anyway. Sure, I could easily pass this truck on probably ten of the straights before it gets real twisty, but I stayed behind just minding my own business until I got to the first passing lane. When we got there I rolled on in third at about forty or so and moved to the passing lane. The guy pulled out in front of me. I thought "Hmm, maybe he didn't see me." I waited the next couple miles until we got to another passing lane. During this time, the guy in the truck is making sure to cut the left hand corners about a half lane inside so I can't pass him safely. When we got to the passing lane, I twisted it pretty good in second and pulled into the passing lane. The guy waited until I was about to his rear tire (which was pretty soon) and jerked his truck into my lane. I waited behind him until we got to a long (maybe 1/4 mile) down hill straight section with a double yellow and took a look over the canyon. I saw no one coming for quite some time and then SLOWLY pulled up behind the guy in the opposite lane (we had a BMW M5 in front of us) and made eye contact just incase it was accidental TWICE! I started slowly going around and about the time I got about even with his rear tire he swung his truck at me and I hit the brakes HARD! He missed me by about two feet and he ended up about ONE foot from the guard rail right in front of me. He almost caught my front tire with his tow package... That pissed me off. He sticks his arm out the window and starts yelling at me (like I can hear him) and giving me the finger. Keep in mind that to this point I have done NOTHING to this guy. The driver in front waits until Dodge Boy is looking at me and hits his brakes fairly hard and slams on the gas at the last second. Now Dodge Boy is pissed at me and the bimmer driver and I think he's foaming at the mouth a little. I'm still just hanging back a ways so as to not get hit but hoping that he stops and steps out so I can put my three years of Jiu-Jitsu practice to good use... When we get to the bottom of the hill I see the beamer hop into the inside lane and try to check the dodge into the outside rail. I decide this would be a great chance to get by as quickly as possible. A nice twist in first and I'm around and doing about thirty-five or so. I look back and see dodge boy flipping off the BMW but he had made it out of the corner first. Here's where the retaliation would come in... Have you ever used broken bits of porcelain to drop a window? It will shatter the window into little bits no larger than probably a half of a square inch and it then just falls straight down. On safety glass it will still shatter the window into little bits, but the glass just drops until the ?plastic? coating catches it and it just hangs there all caved in. I have found the best way to obtain little broken bits of porcelain is to use old spark plugs (and I have a honda 750 that loves to foul them on short trips so I have about 40 or more laying around) and break the end off with a pair of pliers and then whack it with a hammer. You looking to get about 4-5 pieces, make sure none of them are an entire section from around the electrode. If you get any of those, break them in half. At any rate, I was thinking that if I had a handful or more of these in my pocket (that's easy to get to), I could grab a handful and just toss it into the air over my shoulder from about twenty feet or so in front. I consider myself fairly responsible and probably wouldn't just start dropping windows left and right just because I could, but I certainly would to someone like this. I can see cutting me off or pulling into my lane (which happened today) because you can't see me. I mean, you'll probably get the finger but certainly not a dropped window, and I certainly wouldn't drop a window I thought there was a child in the vehicle but sheesh... Trying to kill me on purpose? Certainly. What's the general consensus? edited by m1combat on December 24, 2003 | ||
| Dynarider |
I dont personally try to damage their vehicles, but I have pulled over a few of them while on my bike & chewed them out. Had a couple threaten to call the cops on me for pulling them over...its not really that hard on a bike but you have to watch for the wacked out ones who would sooner run over you..they are best left alone & just call the cops on em. I sat right there & told them to call the cops & we would wait..they decided against it. Also this goes 2 ways sometimes. I had a buddy at work who also rode & one day he was going home but was in his truck & 2 members of a local "club" decided it would be fun to cut the truck off & throw a handful of steel bearings at him. Well my buddy got a windshield full of that crap & said enough was enough & next thing you know he was alongside the bikes & he actually rammed one of the bikers right off the road into a ditch. The other guy took off like a bat outta hell. My buddy stopped, called the cops, they came & the rider was alive but also drunk to all hell. He was arrested..the rider..& they are keeping my buddies name off of any reports for fear of further retaliation. Its an ongoing vicious cycle & usually you are better off just backing off & letting the assholes get as far ahead of you as they can. Its not worth the aggravation, the possible damage to you or your bike, the possible lawsuits as a result, etc. | ||
| Featheredfiend |
An M5 was holding up a Dodge pick-up and a Buell? No wonder there's road rage. | ||
| Henrik |
M1; recount the rule of lug nuts - the one with the most lug nuts win ... every time. Unless you can kill the fucker and safely get rid of the body and vehicle (just kidding  ) you're better off backing off (Serenity Now) with the comforting knowledge that people like that suffer greatly from their own personality as it is. (Edited: Just too mean for the season. Sorry about that. Henrik) Henrik (Me?? Vindictive?? Naahhh  ">) edited by Henrik on December 25, 2003 | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
And people wonder why I carry a cell phone. Actions like the Dodge are easy to call in as a possible drunk driver. Watch how fast they get pulled over. When the cops ask why you thought he was drunk, tell them. Straight up tell them. Here in AZ if you get a motorpatrol cop I can pretty much GAURANTEE the guy is getting reckless endangerment. | ||
| Sportsman |
Another good reason to carry. He hasn't got you're tag from in front. But it's harder than it looks lefthanded.  | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Here's another thing you could have done that would have diffused the whole situation. You could have stopped and let psyco trucker get a few miles down the road and continued on. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Sportsman...Handsfree with the voice feature on my phone, I don't even have to take the thing out of my pocket | ||
| Chainsaw |
Calling the cops turns into a he said -she said situation, they won't do crap, I have tried. Even with a license plate number. I have yet to be able to use a cellphone while actually wearing a helmet riding the bike. By the time I get a dispatcher, the offender is long gone, as are any potential witnesses. If the vehicle is being used as a deadly weapon, and you can prove it, shoot. If you don't think you would be justified in killing the cager, back off. Breaking a windshield may feel great. Just remember that you are on an unusual bike in a particular color of jacket with a particular color helmet and you have a limited fuel range compared to a cage. You are not invisible. FWIW: Police (on foot) in Denver have shot and killed unarmed motorists for coming at them with a car (DA called them justified shoots). I believe if a motorist tries to cause you serious harm, you could argue this in front of a judge. When you carry a concealed weapon (in CO) you do not have to back out of a violent confrontation, but you are not justified to escalate it into the need for deadly force. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Chainsaw its all in how you present it to a dispatcher..."there is a guy in a Dodge truck swerving from lane to lane and it seems like he might be drunk" Gets alot more of a response then "there is a guy in a truck trying to run me over." I also have a NOJ Quiet Rider on my helmet that cuts wind noise down alot. People are stupid. The guy will probably not even realise he admits to the cop that he was swerving into you. | ||
| Swampy |
A pocketfull of marbles works great! But in real life , alway, always, alway! get the plate, back off, call the report takers, and raise bloody hell with the captain, chief, sheriff, or prosecuter(persecuter). The retards always have a family back at the trailer just waiting for the silly ass wife beater to die at the hands of an actual bread winning American so they can either live off the public dole or move into your garage and screw up your neighborhood. I was off for three weeks during Thanksgiving and got so bored I actually watched the Springer show. The retards family actually exist and they are just as mean spirited as the Dodge Boy. Be safe, ride tomorrow. Happy Holidays | ||
| Swampy |
And one more thought on this matter: There is a guy I work with, ex-cop, self procalimed killer of humans, who would think nothing of driving his big Dodge boy truck with the sawed off shot gun under the seat over anybody just because he can. There are many people out there who you just don't want to pull their string, because they just need the exercise and you just happen to be there that day, remember what happened in Florida this year to the bikers that got run over by some pissed of wife beater who was having a bad day. Stand your ground, but make it a fair fight, two wheels against four isn't. You can always follow them home from a safe distance, chances are the cops already know the house. Merry Christmas! Peace on Earth! Good will towards men (wife beaters included) | ||
| Bradj |
Dropping a window means breaking a window, I guess? Problem with retaliation...it often escalates.   Remember the Outlaws that punched the kid when he dissed them? He chased them down in a pickup and ran over several Harleys, killing two of them. Your three years of jujitsu would last about three seconds if the guy was armed with a sawed off shotgun.  I assume everyone is armed....keeps the ego and the temper in check quite nicely.  My Philosophy: TOLERATE, AVOID, RETREAT, NEGOTIATE, APOLOGIZE and carry a .45 loaded with 230 gr. Hydro Shocks in the event the previous five methods fail!  edited by bradj on December 25, 2003 | ||
| Jim_witt |
Duh, Your freaking silly ass Jiu-Jitsu isn't going to do you any good when some fucking weirdo’s blows your ass away. Or the worse scenario, you live and spend the rest of your life in a freaking wheel chair. Throwing something at his windshield is just as brainless as what he was doing. It could have caused him to run into a family on their way to celebrate Christmas with other family members. It should have been pretty obvious to you, that the dude has a few loose screws up stairs, so you simply avoid the entire situation immediately. Doing so doesn’t automatically classify you as a wimp, just smart. Cheers, -JW:> | ||
| Leftcoastal |
M1- There is a portion of the general planet-wide populace that literally seeth at the idea of anyone doing well in life, enjoying themselves, doing constructive things, anything thought of as positive or uplifting. Fortunately the percentage of these anti-social personalities is quite small in comparison to the rest of us, but they are out there. You, on a cool looking motorcycle, on a great road, having a great time, makes you an automatic target for thier usually hidden or disguised hatred, so don't take it personal. A confrontation with them does NOT handle these people. They will twist the outcome, no matter what it is, to prove that they were "right" and you were or are the cause of whatever occurred. Actually, the only way to truly win against these guys is to continue to do well, to enjoy your life, (something they are incapable of) to flourish and prosper despite them. Retaliation, though tempting and seeming like the right thing to do at the time, will often backfire on you, and with the little protection afforded by a motorcycle, could end in you coming up the BIG loser. Breaking thier windows will set them off even more, and though they might not "get" YOU for it, the next guy on a bike they encounter might suffer for your action, as these anti-social people cannot discern you from another cyclist, we're all the same to then. The advice of all above is right on the money- just back off and let them go on their way. Get their license number, document the incident, call the cops, whatever the circumstances dictate, but in the long run, living well and getting the most and best out of life is your best revenge, as this proves them to be ineffectual and incapable of causing their usual destruction. Keep riding, Keep having fun, next time you see these lowlifes,(and any others you may come across) smile, wave, give them a "thumbs-up, and head the other direction. They lose, you win. We all live to ride another day. Happy holidays to all! AL | ||
| M1combat |
Seemingly good advice from all... What I did after I got around was stay in front of him checking my mirrors until I was pretty sure the BMW wasn't in peril and then took off at a decent clip that no four wheeler would be able to keep up and stopped at the first biker bar in wilhoit. I waited there because my only intention when I got to the end of the road was to turn around and head back anyway. When he drove by he was flipping me off and yelling still... I raised both hand at my sides like "What dude? What did I do?" and he drove on by. I continued along my merry way back to my place. I guess I've just never been the type to Kow-Tow to anyone (especially after learning the power of Jiu-Jitsu but of course bullets are a good deal faster...). I wish I could hide a Benelli M1-Combat on my bike. I guess I'll just have to start bringing my USP along. I think those of you who advised backing off and doing whatever I can to ease the situation are correct, I just wanted to get the consensus of a group of people who I have gained a good deal of respect for in the last few months and probably have a good deal more experience with this stuff than I do. Thanks to all. Have a good holiday season and stay safe. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Think about what you just said M1...now think about someone what has a whole truck cab in an area KNOWN for firearms carrying. Just be safe man. He might mistake me for you next time and well I have been shot and it SUCKS. | ||
| Blublak |
Hey Wycked is right.. I wear body armour every day at work, and I really don't want to add that to my regular riding apparel. Just drop back, turn off.. Use what you have that these people obviously dont'.. YOUR BRAIN! No use picking a fight with anyone for any reason, besides, most people think that any motorcycle is every motorcycle.. so you may get away with something terrible.. only to have it revisit one of the others riding on a road that has the misfortune of coming across that same asshole that you just pissed off... Not worth the hassles in my opinion. Later, | ||
| Dullorb |
Remember everyone has a gun and wants to kill you so just shoot them. Never let your tank get under 2 gallons. Carry around a change of clothes and a significantly different helmet and a couple pints of kerosene because you don't need the cops finding your cast offs and pulling out hair fibers that match you. Wait until it's just you and them after you take out the first cage it's the others are on the alert and getting significantly harder. Or if you're feeling generous wait till you are just short of an exit, that way you got options, always leave yourself options. If you are feeling particularly nice I suppose you could use your Ju-Jistu it's usually not to hard to convince block heads to get agressive without pulling a gun on you if you know how to play them. Of course once they get in your face you are obliged to keep beating them until they no longer pose any threat. eg. dead or unconscious and too maimed to ever drive again. Or you could just get yourself an HD MT500 and put its handy dandy little gun case to good use. Just remember witnesses. | ||
| Swampy |
Yep, thats what the ex-cop maniac I work with always says(When he talks), no witnesses under any circumstances! | ||
| M1combat |
Well, I'll certainly start carrying a gun, but I'll make every effort to just bug out until it's obvious I can't. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Just a public service announcement... ...and I am not implying anything about anybody... I do not judge people... (though some may assume I do... one makes choices in life... and I think that is one's right to chose how they live... but with choices are consequences when the choice is outside the acceptable behavior of society... and one must be prepared to face these consequences!!!) AND I am a strong believer in the right to bear arms. BUT a word to the wise... and once again I am not saying anything about anybody... jumping to conclusions... or making any assumptions... I support the Missouri right to carry that is stumbling... BUT... if anyone has a felony conviction for ANYTHING... even if it was only a petty offense with a probation thing after it was concluded... DO NOT I SAY AGAIN... do not have in your possession under any circumstances a firearm of any type... be it plinking... self defense or hunting... possession of ammunition is the same as possession of the gun... and if the serial number is tampered with... it is even worse!!! IT IS A FEDERAL OFFENSE... they actively and aggressively prosecute and they hand out some serious time.. SERIOUS TIME... (in some cases 15 years... or even a life sentence... which means LIFE in the federal system) sentences as in 85% of the ordered sentence and supervision after that which is easy to mess up on... and NO PROBATION!!! I am not in anyway saying any body that has posted has a worry about this... BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME HAVE WAY TOO MUCH OF THIS KIND OF BUSINESS BECAUSE SOME ARE: ...misinformed about post conviction weapons possession ...think they will not bother with a hunting gun ...think if it is used lawfully for self defense it will be overlooked ...their weapons rights are reinstated after they are off supervision (not without a presidential pardon or a reverse of any convictions) If this does not apply... give this information no regard... and do what you can legally do to survive this world... which seems to be getting more and more violent! If anyone reading this does have a felony... PLEASE THINK... AND DO NOT TAKE ANY CHANCES... I have seen people caught for doing really innocent acts... or just plain dumb stuff... an example: A car pulls up to a traffic light and looks over into a police car that is already at the light. He gives them a dirty look... makes a right turn... accelerating hard... spinning tires and literally throwing gravel onto the police car. No need to guess what the cops did... as they follow this guy he moves his right hand in a big arc... and places something on the rear floorboard of his car... when he is stopped for his stupid driving... and his suspicious movements... they pat him down for officer safety... and he has an empty holster... guess what they found in the car? and this is but one of many dumb ways to go to federal prison. I used to think a person could not go to jail for merely being stupid... I have seen a dozen or so prove that thought wrong! Most are not this bad in judgment... but the risk versus desire to carry after a conviction has some very ugly odds and consequences. I'd like to see the word of the seriousness of this get out... I am tired of dealing with this type of offender. and if any of you read any of my posts... you know I often clown... not in this case... this is dead serious... and NO JOKE!!! forgive me for hijacking the thread!!! edited by dasxb9s on December 25, 2003 | ||
| Bradj |
No felon here...hell I don't even rate Hooligan status...  | ||
| Dasxb9s |
As I said... PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE... no one think I was saying anything about anyone. I believe in making choices... and in spite of my employment I choose to at times to travel in the triple digit range on my XB... I am not a hypocrite... everyone chooses to pay attention to those MPH signs or not... I know in my case I have two consequences... One from the guy in the car with flashing red lights on top... and one in my bosses office once they forward a copy of an issued moving violation to my employer... I can get bit twice... BUT... I chose to assess the safety issue of doing triple digits as to others around me... the risk to myself and how it impacts on my family... and the job action that might occur should I be ticketed... life is a series of choices and consequences... the important part is to realize this... and decide accordingly. I expect no special treatment should I get radared... and I may get less of a chance for a break than others... as I am expected to be a "good example" to others. Back to the thread... I "carry" daily... and realize should I have to take some action, on the job or off... it WILL IN FACT change my life forever! I have seen this... and a few times came VERY close to needing to "change my life" VERY CLOSE. People who are eager to cross that line without seeing this scare me... it is not something to be taken lightly... even if it is totally justified and legal. Right or wrong... it WILL change your life. But the important part... do what it takes to go home to your family every day. Nuff said... sorry for rambling!! | ||
| M1combat |
Don't be sorry Das... This is exactly the type of stuff I was hoping to elicit. | ||
| Court |
>>> I have to take some action, on the job or off... it WILL IN FACT change my life forever! I suggest Masad Ayoob "in the gravest extreme" as a group reading assignment. I have seen a motorist convicted for what he tried to do to a motorcycle. The story is long and took place in San Diego County. I prefer, against instinct, to leverage my motorcycle to it's greatest advantage in these situations and REMOVE myself promptly. As a person carrying 98 #4 pellets within my aging bod and having spent days in the hopsital recovering from being shot AND going through the months of a trial and being threatened by some seriously nasty people, I'm not up for repeating that process just to "teach someone a lesson". As in most areas of my life, I simply avoid assholes and endeavor to minimize the time I spend with them. Court | ||
| Nevco1 |
As in most areas of my life, I simply avoid assholes and endeavor to minimize the time I spend with them. My sentiments exactly. However, if that doesn't suit your needs, get a faster bike. Incidentally, if unloaded, separated and properly locked up in your tank and tail bag, you can carry a firearm on a motorcycle. The catch is, it is useless for self defense due to the inaccessibility. Is strictly a technique for transporting to the range or hunting grounds. Can do long guns as well in a locked scabbard with or without a shoulder strap, but you can rest assured you will be pulled over at least once to check if the carry is legal. I personally use three locked containers (empty pistol, empty magazines, ammo). The pistol is then locked in the tailbag. The others are locked in two separate locked compartments in the tank bag. Is a real pain in the arse, but it is the legal way of transporting a firearm in a car or bike. I received this info from the LA PD, LA Sheriff. Orange County, CA Sheriff and the CHP as well as the Wisconsin Highway Patrol. Lastly, Courts reference to Massad Ayoob's book(s) is very sound advice. Trust me, you do not ever want to brandish a firearm, much less shoot at someone unless you have all your legal bases covered and even then, you will wish you hadn't. That is just the way it is. | ||
| M1combat |
Well, living in AZ I am reasonably certain I can carry anything I'd like cocked, locked and ready to rock as long as it's not concealed as I don't have a permit for it. I'll check with a YCSO officer the next time one brings in his laptop for repair. The problem with this is that they just passed a law that disallows anyone to carry any gun into a public building unless it IS concealed... Anyway, I'll look into it and get a concealed carry permit if need be. I've been meaning to for quite some time anyway. | ||
| Chainsaw |
April 2002 the Colorado Legislature passed a law allowing concealed carry in vehicles and motorcycles. Hooray! | ||
| Fullpower |
nevco why ever would you carry a handgun that is unloaded? a rock would be more effective, easier to deploy, harder to identify, and much less expensive. and what communist country do you live in that outlaws the means of personal defense? citizens are armed. disarmed are subjects. |
