| Author | Message | ||
     Lemonchili_x1 |
I did a riding course recently and there were two things that weren't covered which I never got to asking about - 1. Riding on the balls of your feet vs. the peg in the middle of the foot, and 2. 2 or 3 or 4 finger braking and covering the front brake with a couple of fingers in a turn. I used to always ride on the balls of my feet in the twisties, but now I'm using the rear brake more so I'm not so sure. With the X1 I don't find I have enough braking power with two fingers, I always try to use four, ie I'm on the throttle or on the brake, never in between. Sport Riding Techniques suggests covering the front brake with two fingers in a turn to reduce reaction time, but this seems a bit indecisive to me, and braking mid-turn is something I try not to do. Any thoughts on which techniques are best and why? cheers, chili (I'll admit the brakes on my X1 aren't as good as they used to be - overdue for a fluid change and a new rotor is on order) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
During spirited riding or track riding, I rarely use the rear brake. On the street I rarely cover the front brake during a turn as 98% of the time I am done braking way before I get in the turn. This is why I am slow on the street. On the track, I may cover with 1-2 fingers, depending on the turn. Also I have been known to trail brake waaaay deep into a corner. However, I do not recommend this to inexperienced riders. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I cover my clutch by resting 2 fingers on it while riding, never the brake. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
 I cover both and ride on my toes. I also like to use the rear brake to begin scrubbing off speed as well as trail brake. It doesn't tend to upset the chassis as much as the front brake. I NEVER use it when the clutch is pulled in or when the RPMs are below 3500 RPMs. | ||
| Jaimec |
The answer is: "It depends." For beginners we stress covering the REAR brake with your right foot, and leaving your hand OFF the front brake until you're using it (and then use all four fingers for the better control AND grip strength). For Experienced Riders: Whatever works best for you. | ||
| New12r |
I ride on the balls of my feet, cover clutch and brake with at least 2 fingers. I will change up depending on the conditions but in spirited riding I got all my bases covered. If I am in a panic stop I have already changed my body position to accommodate using the rear brake. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
It's weird... I've been riding for 20 years, and having done a course recently and reading a bit, I feel like a beginner all over again, and that's not a bad thing  I'm re-assessing how I ride and what I do. I will go back to riding on the balls of my feet, but practice shifting my feet a little quicker, and have a look at gear and brake lever position too (I think I've been running them a little low). While I do weight the pegs as I'm cornering I don't think I use the lower half of my body as much as I could. In particular my outside leg pushing against the tank is something I want to practice. Anybody able to do a panic stop on a tuber using two fingers on the brake? | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
I always use 2 fingers to brake. MSF teaches use all fingers because in an emergency your other fingers can get trapped between the lever and the grip - limiting how much you can brake. I have CRG shorty levers and keep them on a "6" setting, so the bike would be in an endo before the lever touched my other fingers. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Noob question- I always use 2 fingers on the brake as I can pull the brake all the way in and not touch my other fingers, so I feel I have better control with the other fingers around the grip. But riding on the balls of your feet? Then you slide your foot forward to clutch or brake? What's the reasoning for that? | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
it's just as much to keep your feet to the outside of the bike as it is to move them rearward. moving your feet to the rear (resting on the balls of your feet instead of the middle) will give you more ground clearance when in a steep lean angle, and prevent your feet from touching the ground. leaving extra space on the peg between your feet and the frame will allow you to rotate your foot/leg/hips more easily when shifting your body weight in preparation for a turn. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Makes sense. Thanks | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"I always use 2 fingers to brake. " I think my brakes definitely need a change of fluid! If I try and do an emergency stop with two at the moment the other two will just get caught between the lever and bar on the furthest setting with standard lever. (Message edited by lemonchili_x1 on November 14, 2008) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
On a side note, when riding at night on unlit roads, I have 1 or 2 fingers covering the front brake but I only use it if the back brake isn't enough. Reason being, on an unlit road with a short wheelbase bike, when you touch the front brake you light up 6 feet of the road ahead & precious little else. Rear brake won't make the front end dive. Night riding on windy country roads is a fairly regular exercise for me, due to odd working hours. The trick is to be steady & smooth, you'll get there quicker than gassing it & panic braking when you can't see jack, or think is that a deer? The best advice I can give you is, Ride to the limits you feel comfortable with. | ||
| Dobr24 |
I only use two fingers on the front brake because I change between bikes frequently. ON my Buell I need to pull pretty hard to scrub off speed and some times I will add a finger or two depending on the situation. On my Ducati if I used three fingers I would be locking up the front wheel. On the track and my 650 I can do almost all my braking with two fingers and just a little trail braking as required to settle the suspension. I figure that if I start with two fingers I can always add more if required, but if I immediately lock up the front brake its all over. Switching bikes does not help any because they all brake differently and in a panic stop the last thing going through my mind is "now which bike am I on?" I think it sound more like "CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAPPPPPPP!" | ||
| Tramp |
This is a largely personal subject, and it's difficult to categorize as "right" or "wrong" how many fingers one has on controls. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
I cover my clutch by resting 2 fingers on it while riding, never the brake. Me too...I'm afraid if I do cover the front brake with my fingers a panic stop will turn into a face plant. I use one of those wrist rest dealies on the throttle. It allows me to open my hand while I ride. I found my reaction time getting my hand to the front break is faster now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think it sound more like "CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAPPPPPPP!" That was all that was going through my head when that red pick-up truck came into view. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I always cover both brakes and clutch when approaching an intersection, meeting a car that's waiting on me to turn right into my lane, etc. I try to practice panic stops every week or so when I'm riding somewhere I can safely do it. | ||
| Jaimec |
Pkforbes87: That's not the only reason the MSF tells you to use all four fingers. Some people just don't have the strength to use the brakes to their fullest with just two fingers. Case in point: Many years ago we had a student in an ERC riding a Honda CBR900RR. At the time, one of the best all around sportbikes available. In the "Quick Stop" exercise he was stopping 10 or 15 feet BEYOND what we considered "the standard." My partner walked up to him and said: "Try using all four fingers next time." On the next attempt, he lifted the rear tire about two feet off the ground. My partner walked up to him and said: "Works a little better, huh?" After he pulled his eyes off the inside of his face shield he told her: "You know, I was going to take the bike in this week to complain about the brakes. I don't think I will now." True story, and one of my favorite "ERC stories" ever. | ||
| Skinstains |
I have both my clutch and front brake levers pointing way down towards the ground. It allows me to always keep one finger on the brake and one or two on the clutch without any awkward bending of the wrist. There is no doubt in my mind that my stopping distances are shorter than they would be without my fingers on the levers. It eliminates one move from the sequence of what you must do to stop NOW once a hazzard is registered in your brain. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm not too sure by what you mean by "way down." When I get a new bike, first thing I do is hold my hand flat and straight so my arm forms a straight line from elbow to fingertip. I then sit on the bike and rest the palm of my hand on the handgrip. If my fingertip isn't resting on the brake or clutch lever (meaning if I have to bend my wrist up or down to have my fingertips on the lever and my palm on the grip) I'll adjust the levers until they do. As you said, I just want to extend my fingers and reach the lever. I don't want to have to bend my wrist too. Knowing how strong the ZTL brake is, I DON'T keep the brake covered. There is a tendency to "clench" in a tight situation, and although that sounds like it might help reduce the reaction time, I feel it also means I'll inadvertently apply the front brake TOO quickly, before the bike has had a chance to transfer weight to the front wheel during deceleration. That would result in a front end wash out (I don't trust my reflexes enough to think I'd be able to release and reapply the brake if that happened). By using the MSF method, it forces me to roll off the throttle as I reach for the brake which begins the weight transfer (through deceleration) from the rear wheel to the front. Your mileage may vary. As I said earlier, whatever works for you. We try to install "good habits" in NEW riders but we'll only "correct" an Experienced Rider if their technique is obviously NOT working for them. | ||
| Brumbear |
I do the same thing stains I am just comfortable with my index fingers covering clutch and brake as for the strength pucker factor make you fin strong. Even when regular braking I have always been comfortable that way I have never really had a problem with not being able to pull in either lever | ||
| Babired |
Does anybody in here know the other Total Control, inside pass instructor? If he comes onto Bad web or not? I met him at VIR doing inside pass last year and he would be perfect for this thread and the other thread created by Boo. K |
