| Author | Message | ||
     Teddagreek |
He's looking more and more like bush every day... "McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in June 1958; he was fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899" | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Math is hard. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
"fool me once..." by GWB is the all time best IMO. Nothing can top that blunder. I almost soiled my pants I laughed so hard. | ||
| Teddagreek |
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| Ft_bstrd |
Worth the post. | ||
| Seanp |
"McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in June 1958; he was fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899" And where did you attend college? And what kind of extracurricular activities did you participate in there? I'd be willing to bet money that it was not as tough as the Naval Academy. I'd rather be an Annapolis grad who graduated fifth from the bottom than someone who graduated fifth from the top of almost any other school. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Letterman does a bit almost every night... This is good... | ||
| Skinstains |
Who's dumber...GW or those who put him at the helm ? | ||
| Teddagreek |
Chill... have beer or smoke or whatever..  I'm not running for president! Its called making a comparison, and there really isn't much between these two especially the way they voted the last 8 years.. | ||
| Court |
>>>>"McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in June 1958; he was fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899" This is great for me to hear. Do you get extra cookies if you graduate #1 in your class, with a 4.22 GPA, from an Ivy League School? I need your answer by 12-2-08. The argument, as you see, holds no water . . . . we used to kid about the Doctors who graduated last in their class from med school. These type of arguments that tend to impute baseless logic detract from the topic. | ||
| Tramp |
The difference ()and this is NOT meant to detract from either pres. candidate, nor to support either one) lies in the fact that Military academies draw a larger proportion of politically-appointed candidate acceptance; A simple sponsorship from a congressperson can be all that an aspiring cadet require for entrance, and in the case of a legacy applicant touting such sponsorship, admission into one of the big three can be near-guaranteed. Given this admissions atmosphere, then, a bottom-of-the-class gradutating status is more notable than, say, at an Ivy. Court's own Ivy, in fact, offers NO scholarship program to applicants, and hence tends toward a higher degree of exclusivity than many other schools. I believe Court shares an alma mater with one of the candidates. That being said, I have no problem sharing my opinion that a (presidential) candidate's class ranking should have little, if any , ranking on his or her presidential viability/efficacy. A candidates ability to delegate a strong cabinet, regardless of the candidate's own class-ranking of long ago, will guide that candidate's presidency toward success, much as would any executive officership in any corporation. My feeling is that either candidate has one helluva difficult road ahead of them, cleaning this present mess up, and both should be lauded for taking the reins in attempting to do so. Neither one can possibly foster any single-term solution to our present economic crisis. No Obama-voter should tear into McCain if he has little success in solving our current impasse, just as no McCain voter should be overly critical of Obama, should he win the election and do his best. Both candidates face a near-insurmountable public crisis, one that is going to require both sacrifice and hard work on the part of 'we the people'. The time to sit on your fat ass and watch "survivior" is long gone, kiddies. It's now upon us to stand behind the winning candidate, whomever that turns out to be, without whining baseless platitudes about " more years of Bush policy" or "Socialism"- as neither gripe approached fact. Both are good, honest candidates, facing a near-insurmountable challenge, and they both deserve our respect and support. To act otherwise will spell the end of our great nation | ||
| Brinnutz |
I went to the Academy. so what if he was 5th from the bottom, and graduated with some of the highest amount of demerits. What's your point? I don't watch vid's like those, but how does going to the Academy, graduating 5th from the bottom, make him anything like Bush? Bush didn't go there, Bush didn't spend 7 years as a POW. (Message edited by brinnutz on October 28, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
Brinnutz- based upon this quote from my post immediately preceding yours: " I have no problem sharing my opinion that a (presidential) candidate's class ranking should have little, if any , ranking on his or her presidential viability/efficacy." I presume your post was not directed toward me. | ||
| Etennuly |
The thing about these videos is that McCain and Obama are tired and burned out on the campaign trail. But George W.? He was napping when they handed out brains. I still think that we have a lot to blame George HW and Bar for. Six weeks into George W's first term they should have taken him out back, paddled his ass, and said "No George, this is not how you are going to run this country!". But no, they were absent parents when he needed them the most. | ||
| Aeholton |
Both are good, honest candidates, facing a near-insurmountable challenge, and they both deserve our respect and support. To act otherwise will spell the end of our great nation I believe Socialism and big government will spell the end of our great nation. Minimal federal government with strong state governments is what this great country was founded on. Our tendency to keep relinquishing rights to the federal government is completely opposite of what our founding fathers envisioned. | ||
| Tramp |
I actually disagree. I don't think Dubya was as much at fault as were his handlers, I tend to think he had fewer opinions on some of these matters than did the backstage folks such as Rove and Cheney. Dubya seems like a classic example of a decent guy running with the wrong crowd; sort of the slow kid being goaded along by his peers, who dare him to do outrageous stuff. While his presidency has been one of the greatest shambles of the executive process in the history of our great nation, I tend to think that history might exonerate Dubya, the man, to a greater degree. In general I think he's been misunderestimated. (Message edited by tramp on October 28, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
"I believe Socialism and big government will spell the end of our great nation. Minimal federal government with strong state governments is what this great country was founded on. Our tendency to keep relinquishing rights to the federal government is completely opposite of what our founding fathers envisioned." I agree with AEHOLTON. The "patriot act", and its ensuing degradation of our constitutional rights, was an act of Stalinesque socialism that should never have been suffered by the great American nation. The present distribution of tax-revenued wealth to private banking institutions spells out a highly communistic big-government ownership of banking institutions, causing greater fiscal suffering for the rank & file worker. I look forward to seeing this present path of socialism reined in. | ||
| Seanp |
Tramp - you need to check some of your facts and misconceptions about admission to the military academies. No candidate is guaranteed admission unless they are able to meet the stringent physical, academic, and extra-curricular requirements of any other candidate. There are some who might get the Congressional nomination more easily than others, but if they don't meet the other requirements, they won't get in. Of the hundreds of people I know who graduated from West Point, I can think of maybe a half dozen people who had powerful parents, be they politicians or high-ranking military figures. All the others are quintessentially middle-American. They don't let just anyone into the service academies, and I dare say the requirements are tougher because one must be a more well-rounded individual to gain entrance. It isn't all academically-based; it's based just as much on whether a candidate is involved in sports, student government, band, etc. I would place the exclusivity of admission to a service academy right up there with the Ivys. And with the recent grade inflation occurring at some Ivy League schools, it makes one wonder where they're going lately. | ||
| Court |
So we, of diverse politics, converge of one mind that McCain's academic ranking is of little import in the election. . . . it's simply smokescreen in my eyes. | ||
| Brinnutz |
My post was directed at the very first post in this thread. Oh, and Sean, I didn't need a Congressional nomination. There are backdoor's into places such as the Academy's. Oh, and can this not turn into a "who get's in, yadda yadda yadda." I don't want to have to spend my day explaining. In fact, I'm not. Carry on. (Message edited by brinnutz on October 28, 2008) | ||
| Seanp |
Brinnutz - me neither. They let a hundred or so enlisted folks in each year... (If I remember from talking with you at Homecoming, that's how you got in, too, right?) Court - yes, that's ultimately the point. Regardless of where one graduated from what school, or even if one went to a school, is not important in this election. | ||
| Tramp |
Sean, you posted inaccurate intel. I do not, in fact, need to check these facts, as they are factual as I've posted them. And, yes- Court, I believe many of us agree that McCain's class ranking should have little to NO bearing on his efficacy as commander in chief. Our politics are unlikley divergent as some of may think, its more our understanding of each candidate's positive similarities. | ||
| Tramp |
Sean- forget about Es, high school grads with decent GPAs, and little else, are routinely admitted to the Big Three (NY/CO/MD) by congressional sponsorship. You seem to be confusing OCS, in general, with Mil. Academies. | ||
| Seanp |
Tramp - As Court pointed out, this is not the main argument for the thread. I'm interested in the sources for your facts, as I have years of personal experience as a cadet and officer, and friends in the admissions office at West Point. But you can send that evidence to me offline. Thanks. Everyone else - carry on with the funny McCain videos.  | ||
| Bill0351 |
I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world that he scored near the bottom of his class. It's a factor though. It makes me want to know why. Did he have trouble with academics? Does he have trouble dealing with abstract concepts? Did he have trouble working as a member of a team? Did he lack discipline? They are all legitimate questions that are raised by poor academic performance. It was a LONG time ago, and a lot has happened since then that has a lot more relevance. Still, if I had two equal candidates and one was at the top of his graduating class and the other was at the bottom, the nod would go to the one with the higher ranking. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Neither a Degree nor a GPA is a complete standard by which to compare one candidate against another. Some of the most successful people didn't fair well within classic educational systems. There are conversely some really well educated idiots. The idiot proposing to shit can 401(k)s comes to mind. It's easy to wash out of any military academy. They'll show you the door at any time. He DID graduate. What is hilarious is that each of us bitch that "regular people" can't run for office and sure couldn't run for President yet the ONLY education that counts is an Ivy League education. Which is it? I loved school and was really good at it. My best friend hated school and never finished. I know more stuff. He is more talented. He makes twice what I do. Given our transcripts, you'd vote for me over him. I'd say you picked the wrong guy. | ||
| Bill0351 |
It's funny that so many people decry the state of our education system and then point out its irrelevance in the "real world." It may not be a "complete standard" but it is one of many valid standards. When it comes to a position as important as President, I don't want to choose between someone who is educated and someone who is talented. I want someone who is both. There is a reason that both education and work experience are on a resume. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Years ago, our educational system moved from a structure that taught students how to think to a structure that teaches WHAT to think. We convey information and call it education instead of training students how to think and evaluate information for themselves. Few graduated students possess the ability to critically evaluate the information presented to them. They simply regurgitate it as "fact" without testing that information for themselves. A degree doesn't necessarily indicate a high degree of critical thinking but rather the ability to absorb and regurgitate data in a testing format. This is part of the reason younger people tend to be liberal. The ability to critically evaluate abstract concepts develops with age. The critical thinking of some remain stunted by outside influences or through choice. | ||
| F_skinner |
A degree doesn't necessarily indicate a high degree of critical thinking but rather the ability to absorb and regurgitate data in a testing format. Concur.... Of course I did not go to a Service Academy as I was a dumb enlisted guy! Just kidding Brin and Sean...  I am somewhat educated, at least by NC standards, but I really did not start “thinking” until I was teaching. I learned more about the material when actually teaching a class, answering questions and providing test and scenarios. Education level does not equal Intelligence. I know a lot of well educated idiots like me! | ||
| Brinnutz |
Frank...IIRC, Sean was enlisted as well. We both enlisted before going to the Academy. I just left after 3 years to pursue a career as a LEO. |
