| Author | Message | ||
     Captainkirk |
OK- I know there's a lot of you out there who have a lot more experience at this than I do. Your input, please? I have a stock '99 M2 except for K&N and Thunderslide. Performance is great, reliability outstanding (at this point). I'm considering the following mods, but ABSOLUTELY don't want to affect reliability or longevity 1) Mikuni 42-11 carb kit 2) Andrews N8 cams 3) Forcewinder 4) Buell race ignition unit 5) Performance exhaust- back in '99 when this unit was new, the exhaust was considered hard to improve on. How about now? Would a slip on help (considering D&D) or should I go with the race header/muffler? Prior experience...talk to me. Sound is not an issue, really. My neighbors don't hate me...yet. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
By changing to those mods you should have no reliability issues, (To my knowledge) but instead a better running ride and from what I hear you can pull more ponies with a full exhaust versus a slip on. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Kirk, the most bang for the buck will be gained from the Forcewinder and a slip on exhaust. The dip in the midrange will for the most part disappear. The only thing the race module will buy you is no soft retart as you reach red line. You get full advance up to the stock redline. According to Aaron and his dyno testing, the Mikuni won't change much, just a bit on top. It's easier to rejet as you don't need to pull the carb. Maybe a bit smoother power delivery. I think the difference really shows up after head work. Changing to N8's may change the whole carb thing but in order to get full benefit of the cams head work would also be necessary. As far as exhaust, the new style SuperTrapp works well without being too loud. Plus it's tunable. Lots of folks use the Vance & Hines. Many models (all vendors) are prone to breakage. Some folks have problems, others dont. Mounting method is critical. No stressed mounting points is the key. Check the Exhaust KV for more info than you probably ever wanted to know. I'm sure lots of other folks will chime in. FYI, My M2 has the CF Race "Ham" can and a Daytona Boss slip on. I also have the SuperTrapp. I switched back to the Boss in Sept before Bonneville because of slighty better performance at the expense of noise. I'll probably switch back to the ST before next season. Good luck! The M2's are the best motorcycle ever made and Court can prove it! Brad | ||
| Buckinfubba |
the d&d for the tubers is a really good all around pipe in my eyes. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Brad,reread Aaron's bit on Mikuni.He was saying it did not really show a big HP gain on dyno,but throttle response was greatly improved--and ease of jetting,along with multitude of adjustments and parts.For ignition you may want to try the Dyna 2000 in single fire as I know it smoothed out the idle/low speed running on both of my S-2's.Multiple adjustments for curve and rev limit. | ||
| Aaron |
Kirk: IMO, the exhaust and the cams are the big things constraining your motor, although personally I wouldn't go with that particular set of cams. They go together, too ... either one by itself won't do much for you. Your stock cams don't have enough overlap to get you a big benefit from a new exhaust system and your stock exhaust has a big mid-range reversion that'll only show up worse if you put in cams with more overlap. You need to change both to get a big benefit. The rest of that stuff (ignition, carb, a/c) is not going to deliver much bang for the buck, simply because they're not what's holding you back, and they won't be until you're ready to do much more. Not that I dislike those pieces, I do like them, particularly the Mikuni, I'm just warning you that on the dyno sheet they'll do relatively little for you. Just my view of things. | ||
| Awprior |
I have a D&D full system, an open aircleaner and a Mikuni 42mm. I started with just the D&D and aircleaner, big difference in power (I didn't run it on the dyno with this configuration). I added the 42mm carb this summer, made an incredible difference in throttle response. It's a wheelie machine. For a street bike, I'd say it's good. Then again, I'm a gear head and will probably be starting on a new motor this winter. Alex | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Aaron, I'll be calling soon to discuss my options to get my M2 into the 150 Club next year. I'm figuring head work (Not sure if i can swing a set of bolt heads), 1250 kit and cams. I'm keeping my eyes open for a race header also. Jim, Yup! you're right. I should have left out the "a bit" part. I'll know first hand this spring as I have one on the shelf to install. edited by bluzm2 on November 21, 2003 | ||
| Captainkirk |
Hey all, I really appreciate the feedback. I read Aaron's dyno report on the Mikuni vs CV and realize the benefits of the Mikuni are felt more on the butt dyno than the DynoJet. It sounds like the ease of jet changes would almost be worth the price of the carb...not to mention it takes almost a half hour to pull the breadbox! I'm sure the race pipe flows a lot better than a slip-on, but it's a bit pricey. As for airflow through the heads, I was under the impression that the T'storms were the cat's pajamas. No? Anyway, since you (Aaron) say the N8 cams wouldn't be your choice, that begs the question...which one would? I'm a realist- I spend most of my throttle time between 3000 and 5000. But when I honk on it I take it right up to the rev limiter.The only negative I've heard regarding the D&D is in Reg's writeup in B2win (which overall, was very positive)where he mentioned a huge gain in midrange but he mentioned you have to wind it higher and longer. Midrange grunt is why I bought the M2 in the first place. Maybe it's unrealistic, but I'd like to be able to launch the front wheel on demand. Anyway, thanks again! ck | ||
| Aaron |
Brad: what it takes is about 120hp at the rear wheel. I'd forget about the race kit header if I were you, I've never seen one get into that range. A big bore Force will work, or we could make you something that works even better. You also need to think about carb (think big), ignition, and valvetrain. And it'll be cheaper to do it with XB heads than t-storms. Kirk: XB heads represent an improvement over t-storms. A lot of good motors running around with t-storms, though. In general, the older the set, the better. The short answer to your other question is that as bolt-in cams go, the N4's (aka SE bolt-ins) are as good as it gets. There ain't a whole hell of a lot of difference between those two grinds though, and they're both really mild. The N8 is dual pattern with a more advanced intake lobe, resulting in more overlap (exhaust system becomes more critical) and leaving some inertia fill (high rpm phenomena) on the table. But the grinds aren't that far apart, I'm sure you could get either to work for you. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Aaron & all- Thanks! If I read all this correctly, I probably need to start with a slip-on that really moves the air, a better intake and a good set of cams to pump it through. I'll take any testimonies anyone has to offer. I'm not ready to dig into the motor yet as far as heads go but I appreciate the info on the XB heads. I didn't know they'd bolt on an XL motor. Good to know. Bluz, you seem to have gotten good results with the slip-on. I know the race pipe will flow more air, and the longer primaries will certainly boost the torque curve, but will the boost be useable in street riding? If not, I'm fine with the factory header. This is the whole thing for me- I don't race or do dyno runs. Every mod I do needs to translate to useable street performance...which is why I'm ignoring pretty much all I've read and am relying on you all who've actually rode the difference. BTW-anyone considering the Thunderslide kit; it made a HUGE difference in throttle response on my M2.I would recommend this as a starting point for anyone. | ||
| Blake |
Dyno and street performance are the same thing. If you feel it in the seat, it will show up on the dyno. There is no difference. Tell Aaron how much you want to spend and let him take it from there. It is CRITICAL to match your exhaust to your cams. Taking a shot in the dark is folly and chances wasting money on a system that does not work optimally as a whole. Headwork is one of the biggest improvements you can make as well along with the exhaust and intake/carb. Good luck, let us know what you decide to do. Blake edited by blake on November 23, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
One more thing... the Mikuni wont' make a big difference if any until your bike is near putting down 90 rwhp or more. Then it seems the stock CV starts to become noticeably restrictive. | ||
| Pammy |
We have gotten 120+ hp with the Thunderstorm heads(albeit with some of Cycle-Rama's technologicly advanced headwork) You might want to check Cycle-Rama website at Cycle-Rama.com. Please pardon my butting in here. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Pammy where ya been hiding. how are things in sunnyland | ||
| Pammy |
Fl is perfect! We are having the annual "Pam's birthday" ride this very morning and the weather could not be nicer. We are leaving the shop at 9AM and heading out over the Skyway bridge and then round about to Plant City. Come see us some time..... Later man | ||
| Rocketman |
Happy birthday Pammy and make sure you enjoy it. Kisses to you and 'tother arf'! Rocket  | ||
| Court |
Happy Birthday Ms. Queen of Speed ! | ||
| Blake |
Pammy, Where ya been girl?! Happy Birthday! This website exists in part thanks to the generous sponsorship of Cycle-Rama. Notice how when you type "Cycle-Rama" it automatically turns into a hyperlink to your site?  So how about you give us an update on the recent goings on your crew of record setting, dyno shootout champion, high performance specialists? There's a special topic just for you under the "Sponsers" topic.  Inquiring minds want to know. | ||
| Axtell |
Happy birthday my friend!!!! Ron | ||
| Captainkirk |
Blake- Thanks for the input! Unfortunately for me, the plan is not to go on a shopping spree, but rather to plan in advance what I'm going to need, then slowly go about picking up the goodies. I realize the futility of installing one component at a time; that's why I'd planned to do it in "modules"- say, cams and exhaust, then carb/air cleaner, etc. The main idea at this point is to avoid going into the top end- it's got less than 10K on it and runs great. When I wear it out a bit I'll do pistons and head work, but you can see my point... Right now I'm pretty much limited to what bolt-ons will give me. That's why I'm trying to find out as much info as I can as to what works well with what. What I've heard is that the race kit does well with the stock XL motor. What I don't know is how well it works with OTHER mods like the N8/N4 cams and the Mikuni.Thanks again ck | ||
| Pammy |
Thanks for the sentiments guys. Rocket, Wes will be happy for a 'kiss' from you(by proxy, of course). He says hello to you as well. Court, thanks for the new title...but I would still be 'Queen of the Universe', I have a new t-shirt to prove it(actually it says "Queen of the FREAKIN Universe"  Blake, I have been around, just trying not to step on any ones toes(not my normal M.O.) We have a few things in the works. One of our ventures has set a new record in Maxton. We just delivered a Cycle-Rama built 95",turbo-charged Dyna, that is putting to the ground around 193RWHP and 206 ft lbs of torque. My 88" Buell is in for another nip and tuck and should be well over 160RWHP by Daytona time. Wes is building a 200RWHP street bike(HD based engine and frame) entering into a little friendly competition with James Simonelli from S&S Cycles. So, in other words....just normal shit! Ron, I will be looking forward to seeing you in March. But I suppose I will see you guys before that. Heading to the PRI show in December and then the dealer show in Feb. Call me. And last but not least. The ride was excellent. Some great friends and some surprisingly, primo roads(for Fl). The weather could not have been more perfect. My bike was never more smooth(FZ1, got a new ignition advancer for my b-day). CK, feel free to call or e-mail(cyclerama@aol.com) Wes any time to find the info you need, he won't steer you wrong. | ||
| Rocketman |
Pammy in a world of Nallin this and Nallin that I know who I'd rather be Nallin  Get your skinny arse back in the fight madam! Rocket | ||
| Pammy |
Fortunately, "Nallin World" is a bit smaller and insignificant compared to the world I live in. (I LOVE YOU BRIAN!) So no fight necessary. Last time I stepped in and corrected someone "important" on this board, I got a scathing e-mail from Court and don't wish to repeat that scenerio.(although this post may cause just that)as a matter of fact, e-mails were flying all over....and phone calls, oh my. We found it quite shocking, over here at "Cycle-Rama world". Cycle-Rama has designed some unbelievable motors(to get back on topic). To list a few: The 2002 Team ELves Bonneville 202.989 record holder. Many wins at the HP Shootout in Daytona Fl. Many National and East Coast 1st place plate holders in AHDRA for 2003. Record holders in Maxton, N.C.(which I hear is a hoot. I may have to go 2004) So you see, no fight required....(and don't think I didn't appreciate your 'skinny arse' comment, however sarcastic it may have been)  | ||
| Firemanjim |
Pammy,tell me more about this turbocharged bike.What set-up are you using--turbo,carb,etc.???? | ||
| Pammy |
*Aerocharger, used *Cycle-Rama modification of the stock heads *Cycle-Rama design cam *Ross forged pistons, 95" kit *and last but not least, Dyno-tuning by Cycle-Rama | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Pammy, I hope you had a wonderful birthday yesterday & a great ride! Yeah yeah, I know what you're thinking Rocket. My M2 is running very/extremely great. Wes did excellent work on the engine. It's been perfectly reliable. Unfortunately, I believe I need a new rear wheel. I keep going through wheel bearings. So, instead of riding this weekend, I was going from bar to bar drinking some excellent stout. Tell Wes hi for me. Dave Frye | ||
| Mrclean |
Good afternoon all. I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Mark Wolniak and I ride a Sportster...and Possibly a Buell in the future. On the 150 mph subject: It might be doable with a stock engine but you would have to drastically modify the chassis. My Sportster ran a top speed of 149.3 last month at Maxton NC. This done with a stock displacement and a stock bottom end with over 25,000 hard miles. She has dual plugged Thunderstorm heads to keep the stock 1200S ignition, Wiseco Thunderstorm pistons, SE kit cams and a Mikuni HSR 42. No big bucks invested here. Her latest dyno run yielded 87 horse but I would guess that she is making low 90's now. You will more than likely go 150 mph+ making 120 horse but I wouldn't use that as a rule. By cleaning up your lines and decreasing the frontal area of the bike with rider you can go faster with less power. Mark | ||
| Vr1203 |
Pammy,tell me more about this turbocharged bike.What set-up are you using--turbo,carb,etc.???? Pammy,Please let us know what's working as far as the cams go. Can I get a set? | ||
| Paulinoz |
"You will more than likely go 150 mph+ making 120 horse" This is sort of true Peter did 152 and change on AW's 120HP M2. but after 7 runs the best I did was 147 point somthing, Peter was wearing my helmet and leathers so we must be close to the same size so it aint just HP there is a lot of skill involved and as the USFRA say on there website " It aint as easy as you might think" |
