| Author | Message | ||
     Buellgrrrl |
You could test the model right here in the U.S.- there are several areas in the western states that are over a hundred miles from a Buell dealer. Most of the dealers that exist are darn near useless anyway, having barely enough parts in stock to do a 10,000 mile service. So a customer in Aberdeen, South Dakota or Williston, North Dakota could just as well have the new bike drop shipped to them and get parts shipped in from HD/Buell direct. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You could test the model right here in the U.S.- there are several areas in the western states that are over a hundred miles from a Buell dealer. Most of the dealers that exist are darn near useless anyway, having barely enough parts in stock to do a 10,000 mile service. So a customer in Aberdeen, South Dakota or Williston, North Dakota could just as well have the new bike drop shipped to them and get parts shipped in from HD/Buell direct. Wouldn't you view your business model viewpoint colored preeminently by your singular exposure to a bad dealership whereby no dealer is better than a bad dealer? | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
FB, the Buell dealer just down the road from me isn't the only "bad" Buell dealer. In fact, there seems to be no shortage of next to useless Buell dealers. If all your Buell dealer does is add a couple thousand dollars to the price of a Buell, why not cut them out of the loop? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I have a very good dealer. Others have very good dealers. There are several here. | ||
| Damnut |
Not everyone here lives near you fatty. It seems to me that folks that have good dealers do not know what dealing with a bad one is like. But I don't have much to worry about since I do my own work to my bike and only need my dealership for maintenance items. But it WILL be a problem when I want to get another Buell added to the stable. 2 isn't enough I guess.  When that time comes, I'll definitely by looking for the best price I can get, even if that means traveling many hours away. I WILL NOT be buying a new bike from the dealership that I bought my XB from and I have NO problem telling them that when I go there to buy my maintenance parts. | ||
| Court |
I live better than 1,000 miles from fatty and have 3 dealers within an hours ride of me that I would recommend without hesitation. I am, and have been, very vocal that Buell needs to do something and I think it needs to be done with some true visionary thought. I've got some ideas and, in my opinion, folks who are quick to complain bring little in the way of progress. I feel somewhat confident that it's time to break the mold with time, tide and technology having changed and provided a host of material with which a great solution can be crafted. We'll be seeing, in the next 36 months, if the message registers. The key will be to respect and satisfactorily deal with the contraints of the commercial dealer contract while integrating "new think" to allow Buell to avail themselves of new and improved means and methods. The manner in which I got my VMW HID lighting and some of the other stuff I've been ordering convinces me it's doable. Court | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh I have a piss poor dealer near me as well. I wouldn't trust them with servicing a skateboard. They operate in a MILITARY town (Ft. Campbell) and can't sell Buells. That demonstrates a special kind of suck. Court, I want the job of clothing and accessory merchandiser for Buell merchandise. I believe Buell should do what Polo and Tommy Bahama do inside department stores. I WANT THAT JOB!!!!!! I worked for Abercrombie and Fitch doing just that. | ||
| Damnut |
While I do not like my local dealer there ARE a couple of employees there that I do like and ARE Buell friendly. One is even a NEBO member and I consider a good friend but he is facing an uphill battle with most of his coworkers.  But the rest of the employees cast a black cloud over the whole establishment. For example: Walk in one day to pick up a part that I ordered. Me: Hi I received a call that my part is in, name's Jim M. Parts Person: Oh I have that right here. What kind of bike is this for. Me: Buell Firebolt Parts Person: Oh One of THOSE. Me: What's that suppose to mean? Parts Person: Those can't be comfortable to ride! How can you ride all hunched over like that? Me: I have ridden PLENTY of 4-500 mile days with no problem. (as I take my part) Have a nice day. It's like they don't even notice that they sell the bikes that I am ordering parts for 20 feet from where they are working. Don't even get me started about the sales transaction of when I bought my bike. Still makes my blood boil 3 1/2 years later. | ||
| 04buell |
Kinda like when I traded my Sportster for my 12Ss. The kid made a couple of idiotic statements and I was real quick to tell him that he needed an attitude adjustment if he was going to sell the Buell machines. (What talk show host was it that always said "You can't fix Stupid)? | ||
| Brumbear |
I almost wish sometimes they were dealt buy small Independents where the product means something to the seller and the MIGHTY HD isn't behind the service. But to be honest I kind of enjoy sticking to the HD guys now and then. Just ask em to follow down the road a piece I did get a laugh once this season I stopped at a HDdealer bike night for a free HD hot dog that is and this guy pulls in with a blackwidow or some big dollar chopper looks at my bike and says what are you doing here with a croch rocket. I say scuse me pal what did ya say he says why would you come to a harley dealer with a croch rocket I couldn't resist I say what the hell are you talking about what are you ridin where does that overpriced piece of shyt say harley davidson on it. the guy starts to stammer I say this is a flockin harley a relly fun one one at that so I am gonna ask you what are you doin here with some HD knock off I turn and walk away and just and laughed to myself all the way to the hot dog stand so it aint all bad | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Interestingly, the Harley dealer just down the road from one of my favorite dealers, Judson, gave up the Buell franchise a couple years back. Under Minnesota franchise law, HD could now give the Buell dealership to Judson. Imagine Buell, scorned and consigned to the back of Harley dealerships, on equal footing with Guzzi and BMW in a place that actually looks and even smells like a motorcycle shop. Imagine all the parts you'd normally need in stock, and the rest available quickly, even overnight, if needed. And Buell savvy techs that don't have to keep running back to the computer terminal to figure out how to take a Buell apart, never mind put it back together. That's what the Buell ownership experience could be like... but fat chance the HOG executives in their luxury office suites will ever let it happen! | ||
| Steve_mackay |
That's what the Buell ownership experience could be like Huh, that's exactly what MY Buell experience is like. I walk in to my local Dealership(Hals HD/Buell in New Berlin, WI), and I see a row of bikes, and clothing right out in front. The mechanics in back are the best in the biz. Ask anyone who was at homecoming this past year their impression of Hals. This was a dealer that bought 12 bikes JUST to rent them out for the Buell 25th anniversary homecoming. This is a dealership that sponsors track days, sponsors racers, and has even loaned us their professional racer(Dan Bilansky) as our private instructor for the day. The local BMW dealership? I've been in there at least a half dozen times. They wont even bother to acknowledge me walking in the door. Much less talk to me when I'm looking at a bike. | ||
| Chellem |
That's what the Buell ownership experience could be like... but fat chance the HOG executives in their luxury office suites will ever let it happen! See, I was with ya right up until that line. I know a few Harley executives. Their offices are pretty nice. But do you really believe they want Buell to fail? Do you honestly think that they'd rather sit back and read posts like yours? Do you think it makes them happy to know that there is SO MUCH room for improvement? You make it sound like they are actively stopping Buell from succeeding. You couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Or multiple bad experiences. Really I am. I wish I could help you. But have you ever tried to get someone to do something they don't really want to do? Have you ever been a manager who had to tell someone to do some task - or they're fired? And under that duress, did they do an awesome job? Or did they just do what they had to to get by? I'm not saying that's a good example of the company/dealer relationship. But let's not pretend that Harley can wave some magic wand and all the people who have been living the Harley life for 10-25 YEARS will suddenly become sport bike enthusiasts. And although I'm sure a lot of people here think they know what it takes to run a dealership - it's harder. It's harder than you think. Much harder. Just getting people to do things is hard. Even if the dealer principal is the biggest Buell enthusiast in the world - if the parts guys, or the service guys, or the sales guys don't like them, they won't do a good job. They'll get by. Yes. I know. Easy, right? Get rid of 'em. Except we kinda need to sell Harley stuff too. Buell just is not ready to have true stand-alone Buell dealerships. At least not in America. I just don't think there's enough potential profit per year. And while mixing Buells with other sport bikes like Ducati and BMW probably makes sense to sport bike folks, to a lot of people, it's mixing something unique - an American sport bike - with a bunch of foreign lines. Not exactly Harley's vision either, I'd assume. Can't speak as to Erik's vision. A lot of people aren't trying. But a lot of people are. And they're just as frustrated to learn what's being said about their dealerships as you are to have to be saying it. So can we be a little more constructive than referring to Harley Corporate officers as rich bigwigs in their corporate offices, implying they're going to offer that we eat cake? ->ChelleM | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Chelle, first off you don't have to understand sports bikes to understand Buell and Buell riders. I've never raced a motorcycle- I bought a Buell because being lighter than a Sportster it's easier to handle, vibrated way less, and the riding position is much more comfortable for day long rides than a Harley's. You'll note that the Uly has brought riders with similar interests into Buell dealers- they want a bike they can explore the roads for days on end, whether said roads be paved or not. As for HOG's management, I don't think they're greedy as much as inept. Almost none of the folks who saved Harley in the 80s are left, and the current top management can barely figure out what to do with Harley, never mind Buell. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
It seems like every week we have a bad dealer thread. We all know there are problems in the system. I have a question. These dealers that are less than quality, how are they on the HD side? I know a few members here own HD's, so I am curious. Is the servicing better, sales, customer service (dealer level)? Is there really a double standard, or is a bad dealer a bad dealer no matter what the product? | ||
| Damnut |
Double standard in my case. | ||
| Ustorque |
Don't even get me started about the sales transaction of when I bought my bike. Still makes my blood boil 3 1/2 years later. i'm in the same shoes on this one, it was a fight just to make the purchase! | ||
| Irideabuell |
It's amazing what kind of thoughtless and idiotic statements you hear from people representing a dealership or place of service. There's a very reputable auto repair shop here in Orlando where I get all the work done on my car and I would consider the shop manager a good friend. I went there for a couple of things one morning and my bud wasn't there, but a young kid was taking care of getting service started for customers. When I came in he started taking my info and when I told him I had a Ford Focus he immediately proceeded to tell me that was a girl's car and why would I drive something like that. I stood there in shock for a moment and had to ignore it. Rest assured I told my bud all about it when I returned to pick it up and he couldn't believe it. The kid ended up getting fired a week later for a multitude of reasons, but it goes to show that some people have little to no common sense in dealing with customers. | ||
| Court |
Ahhhh . . . at last . . . something we agree on. But alas I suspect my thoughts are based on specific facts. Can you give me one example of why the current management is inept and one example of how one of the "80's" management would have operated differently? Two questions: ( I need to know if you are credible and capable of discussing this) 1) Can you name one of the "80's" management? 2) Have you read "Well Made in America?" I guess I'd also ask where your personal "goal line" is. Is your hope to better and improve Buell or simply run helter skelter declaring the sky to be falling. If the later, I can share, with 20+ years experience, that the sky has been falling since 1987 and folks have continually opined the Buell is doomed. Many of the same folks said the HD stock I bought in 1987 would be worthless and "this can't go on forever". Well it didn't but each $1 did turn into well over $1,000 before it ended. I won't be able to respond today . . . I think I am going to Vermont for some chili. | ||
| Rainman |
My dealer is serious H-D with a big local following, dyno, reputation for speed shopping big twins, etc. They seldom have more than a couple of Buells and, with the exception of the 1125rs, usually have left-overs. The sales folks ride H-Ds and have for years and don't quite understand Buell, but they put the bikes up front where they're easily seen. However, they do their best to accomodate me. They've never insulted me, although they have admitted they "don't get it" I tell them to imagine a Sportster that has been developed to its absolute fullest and they have a Firebolt. That makes sense to them, sort of. The big thing I like about my dealer is that they do their best to keep SOMETHING in stock, whether it's the friggin carb boot for the Blast or oil filters or a few T-shirts. And they'll order and ship in a heartbeat. They also have two drag racers (jap bikes) and a Buell freak in the repair shop and have done good work for me in the past. They're trying. I buy something there every month to encourage them. | ||
| Gohot |
It seems like for Me, when I decided to get a Buell, I already knew that I would be getting beat in dragraces with the current crop of Offshore 600's. I still wanted a Buell, I also found out soon after getting My Buell that there was a rather large amount of HD dealers that looked at Buell's with contempt. So What! Well in the course of ownership, I found the guys that were into them by word of mouth. Now I have a list of those willing to get the stuff I need, when I need it. I guess it's like taking your Ford F40 to the local dealer and wanting service.......WHOA! we don't know nut'in bout those! Youll have to try another dealer...sir! Well we can all take hope that here in the forum, we can find those with experiances good and bad who can steer us to a dealer that will be all kinds of helpfull. Remember, when we bought these bikes, we knew, or at least most of us knew it would be tough. After all, when you went in the HD dealer to look at Buells, I bet there were at best mebe 4-5 Buells and 30-40 of all the HD lineup. That should have been a red flag on its own, still we bought, and, well alot of us found out just who was going to address our needs. and it may not have been where we bought it, which sort of is wrong. If you ride a Buell, first, you are different, #1 and if you can work your way around and navigate to the Buell fanatics dealerships or shops, well then again you are # 1. | ||
| Chellem |
Chelle, first off you don't have to understand sports bikes to understand Buell and Buell riders. Maybe we don't have to completely understand sport bike riders. But surely even you can agree that it's a different selling style than it is to sell Harleys. You had your reasons for buying a Buell. Those aren't the same as others on this board, or out in the "real world" as it were. So what is your main complaint? It's not that we "don't get it", that doesn't bother you. Your main beef is a shortage of dealers with parts in stock? That the techs don't know what they're doing? I'll get the HOG bigwigs out of their offices right away to force the dealers to send their techs to school, and to take an inventory position on some Buell parts. Seems like it's in their realm of power to force small business to incur expenses that they aren't interested in paying. Dealers suck. I get that. I really do. I just find your anger a bit misplaced. The original point of this post, factory-direct Buells, can't work right now. I don't know what's down the road, but until a whole lot of things change, including the dealer contract, the basic structure of how Buells are shipped, and some sort of alternative service plan outside of the dealer network framework - for which I don't think there's even a precedent - that plan won't work. A network of non-dealers who service Buells will face the same facts. Unless they can see the profit potential, they aren't going to stock the parts either. I'm not saying there isn't a profit potential - I'm saying they need to SEE it. If you think the solution is easy, or that you have the real solution, post it up here. They lurk on this board, believe me. ->ChelleM | ||
| Court |
I intend to be part of a solution. | ||
| Oldog |
It's odd, I had a unique experience in my local dealer, I was in salavating over the 1125R and one of the sales guys came up and started talking to me about it, he had the brochure stuff down, and indicated that while it was not his cup o tea, he was excited about it as a new and great product to offer, shortly afterwards, an Import owner came in and started asking questions about the bike, and "RACING" wins then features, The guy seemed to be more interested which races it won and the specs sheet comparo than what it was like to ride a Buell I'm left with the question that how many sales associates deal with this waste of their time ? unfamiliarity, and change tend to put off most folks. I believe that well managed growing businesses get better over time. I have seen a number of new faces at my local shop over time some have been difficult to work with some are a joy to deal with in the end good dealers will be successful and poor ones will not be. | ||
| Rainman |
Let me say this and then I have to get on the Blast and drive from the office across town to a corporate meeting: My H-D dealer is a lot more fun to visit and hang out at than any car dealer I knkow of. They may not get Buells, as such, and especially the Blast, but they get motorcycles. As for the crap I get from the H-D crowd, I can hand out the insults as quick as they can and twice as cold. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Mexico is still a free and clear blank slate. I am working on my Spanish, see y'all from Cabo in January. I have a feeling the CityX will cause a bit of a stir and some market curiosity. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Court- some names like Blumenthal(?) come to mind from HOG's board during the recovery phase. And no, I haven't read the book, and I'm not real impressed by HD's production processes. As for being part of the problem or part of the solution, I am neither. Buell and HOG don't care what I think, and thusly I have zilch ability to fix them. Chelle, by your very presence here and listening to our complaints you've proven that not every dealership is hopeless. You say that your small business can't afford to train techs and stock parts. How much does your dealership owe on their building? How much does your dealership have tied up in motorclothes? Techs are the most important people in the dealership. Treat them well, keep them on the payroll year round, and give them the best training available. Don't forget health insurance either, lest you lose them to a car dealership or maintainence job. Parts are an investment- every time HD/Buell comes out with a new price list with increases they rise in value. And under many state's franchise law, the manufacturer has to buy them back if you can't sell them. When a rider comes in with a dead stator or broken belt, they'll be your customer for life if you have the part in stock and can install it promptly. If you tell that customer that you won't have the needed part for a week and it'll be another week before the tech can even look at it and ruin their two week vacation ride, they'll never buy from you again. | ||
| Dynasport |
Someone earlier asked about experiences with HD dealers dealing with a HD as opposed to a Buell. Not owning a Buell, I can't directly answer that question, but I can say that my dealer has actually been pretty good from the service standpoint on my bike. They don't always have every part I have needed, but they seem to get them in pretty quick. They never seem to finish a job when they tell me they will, but now I just build that in to the time estimate they give me and it all works out. I have also needed small repairs on the road and my experience has been that when they know you are traveling they do everything they can to get you back on the road as quick as possible. Bottom line, from a HD perspective, things have worked out pretty well overall for me. On another note, it's not just Buells that dealers aren't equipped to handle. I was at a dealership one Saturday and a guy rode in and wanted to buy a tire. The problem was that his bike was a 70's model. None of the techs knew how to get his wheel off. They did finally get the guy a new tire on, but you should have seen them scrambling to find someone who had a clue about older bikes. I don't think they ever did, but finally someone decided they'd give it a shot anyway. | ||
| Chellem |
Chelle, by your very presence here and listening to our complaints you've proven that not every dealership is hopeless. You say that your small business can't afford to train techs and stock parts. How much does your dealership owe on their building? How much does your dealership have tied up in motorclothes? Techs are the most important people in the dealership. Treat them well, keep them on the payroll year round, and give them the best training available. Don't forget health insurance either, lest you lose them to a car dealership or maintainence job. I didn't say that we don't do those things. We do. And thanks for the advice about health care - we've offered a great benefits package since the day we opened. What I said was that it is difficult for Buell or Harley corporate to FORCE dealers to incur these expenses. Dealers make the choice on where to spend their money. And so being mad at the corporate people for failures on the part of the dealer network is misplacing your anger. THAT'S what I said. It's so easy for people to sit back and tell me how to run a business. All you have to do is pay people year round even though the business is seasonal, and make sure you give them benefits, and make sure you train them, and blah blah blah. You know nothing about my balance sheet or my P&L. You sit there and spend dealership money without having any real information. What's the return on investment for sending a tech to school? How much more will he generate for the business? What's the rate of turn on Harley motorclothes compared to Buell motorclothes - or the average turns per year? Or for that matter, the turns on a Buell part compared to a Harley part? THESE are questions that each dealership must answer for themselves. Then they need to decide how hard they are going to work for the money. Maybe you SHOULD apply for a Harley dealership. Maybe you'd do better than everyone else. I say, give it a shot. If your gloom and doom predictions come true, then I suppose an opportunity will present itself. Then, a year later, let's hear how it's going. ->ChelleM | ||
| Court |
Well said. I've been trying to convey this for some time. The BUELL VALUES apply to Buell Motorcycle Company, the part that Erik and Jon control. The dealer network is privately owned with each dealer having a contract with Harley-Davidson. Harley has no more control over the dealers "values" and business practices, beyond the normal so many square foot, inventory and so forth, than you have over the behavior of your neighbors kids down the block. Values and culture tend to migrate by example and economic motivation. If a dealer starts making money as a result of a behavior it elicits a Pavlovian (Pavlov. . . that name ring a bell? ) response that tends to make the reoccurrence more likely. For a better understanding of what really moves dealers, organizations and groups of people take a gander at a couple of Aubrey Daniles books. I have two, Performance Management" and "Bringing out the best in People" sitting here on my desk. I manage a large construction program ($7B) with lots of folks and I can't rely on threats and bravado to make things happen. In addition, the dealers are in a rapidly changing environment. The entire nature of the Harley-Davidson business model will change in the next 26 months. Some of you may have seen, and I'm certain my sage economic analyst Buellgrrrl has seen, the exclusive story on the Bloomberg Financial Newswire this morning. Frankly, all bets placed over the past 20 years are off and the spoils of the next round will go to the bright, mobile and flexible. HD would do well to listen closely to Erik Buell. I have only marginal confidence they will but am hopeful. There are Harley-Davidson dealerships available (I know since my wife has looked at one) and as Michelle says . . . it's a great time, for those who know how to do it better, to put their money, time and effort into play and get in the game. These are going to be fascinating times. But I'd encourage folks, rather than to leap too quickly onto the internet "let's kick all their asses into submission" band wagon to think for themselves. Court |
