| Author | Message | ||
     Smitty |
The article also notes how the Buell makes 40 ft lbs of torque at 1500 rpm when you can only get 50 ft lbs out of the Brutale at 10200 rpm. They also let out how this "old lump of an engine" (words by naysayers) can meet euro 2 without a cat converter with new injectors and mapping great work Buell. I had the opportunity to hear the Brutale at the dealer when we were droping my friends S4 Monster yet again. It sounded like a GSXR750. I did hear a XB9S with the Force pipe. That sucker was loud.He was there getting the Power comander dialed in . | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
crusty, im as tall as you are, and i have an firebolt 9r. when you test rode it did your feet touch the ground fully? mine dont when i have both feet down the touch, but my heals ar up about a 1/2 inch. Maybe my legs are just short. idk feels fine for me though. reuben | ||
| Daves |
Blake! You haven't taken a ride on a 12 yet? What the hell are you waiting for? Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Smitty |
Dave Ill be calling ya this week. | ||
| Court |
Smitty: Beware the "Dave Tractor Beam". HINT: Clear space in the garage before you "go look". This guy is good....VERY GOOD! | ||
| José_quiñones |
Blake, I could borrow a page from your book and respond as follows: Funny how you seem so authoritative and expert on the subject. You must have friends or relatives associated with..... Buell. But I won't. By this time next year you should be able to go to your local KTM dealer and demo ride a 990 Duke. It will cost less that $12,000, weigh less than 450 pounds, and make at least 120 rwhp. Then you can give us your review. In the meantime, I think I will put more weight on Alan Cathcart & Brian Catterson's opinions, because they have actually ridden the 990 Duke. Especially Mr Cathcart, who has ridden/reviewed almost every naked bike available, Buell included, and places the KTM above all. | ||
| Bads1 |
JQ MOTOR CYCLIST MAGAZINE states that the Duke will have its first batch out in May of 2004 and volume production begins in July with bikes arriving stateside a month later | ||
| Smitty |
I know Court. We have spoken several times. I have even plotted out the route. It is a bit of drive making warranty items a little difficult. I’m in northern Delaware next to Jersey. | ||
| Jim_witt |
Dave mentioned: Blake! You haven't taken a ride on a 12 yet? Yea, right ...... Blake on a XB?  -JW:>  | ||
| Gearhead |
Jrw98flh To answer your question about fit on the XB12 I can give you my 2 cents. Before I bought the XB12 I owned an M2. I test rode a XB9 just after they came out and hated it and kept my M2. After a two day track day I had distroyed a set of foot pegs so over that winter I installed a Banke peg raiser kit. It made a big difference on the track as far as lean angle was concerned and didn't take long to get used to on the street. Then I test rode another XB9 before comitting to DaveS that I'd take a new 12 and was quite surprised how comfortable it was. I've got just over 1500 miles on it and it fits me great, I'm 5'11", 190 or so with long arms and inseam. My point is had I not done the peg raiser kit I don't think I would have been as comforatable right off the bat but if you really want one I don't think it will take you long to make the adjustment. I'm lucky that Craig and Dave let me take an extended test ride a 9 first though. Ralph IFM | ||
| Bads1 |
GEARHEAD sound like you and I did the exact same thing before we bought are 12's.I also did the Banke risers on my old bike. | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake Ukes sales KTM and I would bet keith will be demoing the Duke 990. | ||
| M2me |
Come on people, lay off Blake! I know what he means about the Duke 990. In software it's called vaporware. SuperDuper Software 8.0 will solve all your problems and cut costs by at least 30%. Great, where can I buy SuperDuper Software 8.0? Oh, it won't be shipping until late Q2 2004. In other words, right now it's not going to solve any problems or cut any costs. Once the Duke 990 is actually available we can accurately evaluate it. In the meantime it's just vaporware. | ||
| Rocketman |
The article also notes how the Buell makes 40 ft lbs of torque at 1500 rpm when you can only get 50 ft lbs out of the Brutale at 10200 rpm. Smitty, you trying to put me off? Shut it! You're doing a good job LOL. Rocket  edited by rocketman on November 10, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
JQ, Like I said, my comments on the article are from the perspective of a potential XB12S owner. The whole thing just seemed outlined to laud the MV and pick on the Duc and the Buell, more so the Buell. I mean how can you love an ill handling bike with a sticky throttle that only makes 27 mpg? I guess maybe I'm just too far on the practical side of motorcycling to see the value in such a bike for use on the street? On the Duke... I just don't see those specs as pushing the goal post out much if at all in the world of naked superbikes. I'm sure the bike will be great and very well sorted. After all it will have gone through a proper development cycle, no? But like M2me says, it ain't here yet, and you and I know very well that the optimistic thinking of engineers does not always stand up to the rigors of durability and emissions testing. Even if it does, I don't see 120 rwhp in a naked superbike setting the world on fire like some seem to think it will. The styling is pretty out there. I like the black version. Would be great to take one for a ride. I've learned that is the only way I can reliably evaluate a motorcycle for me. Jim, You forget that I ride around on a '97 Cyclone with full blown racing rearsets and clipons (well the clipons do have 1-1/4" risers). The XB9/12R are like sitting in a recliner compared to my M2. The Lightning versions do put me at a very upright stance that I do not like. I like to have weight on my wrists to counter the air stream rather than have to hold on to keep from being blown backwards. It was pretty hillarious a couple weeks ago in the Hill Country I swapped rides with my friend Ian; after putting 30 miles on his Ducati 750SS (awesome bike by the way) we stopped to fuel up and return to our own rides. Ian commented that my Cyclone was the only bike he had ever ridden that made his Ducati feel luxurious. LOL. The erbos were similar, but teh Duc's seat was mucho comfy compared to the poorly conceived mistake that doubles for my Cyclone's seat, and I even have it stuffed with a big ole gel pad. Kinda like riding a horse after being away from teh ranch for a spell, you gotta break-in your ass more than the saddle. The Firebolt ergos are perfect for me. Yeah the bike looks wierdly small with my big ole apelike frame hunkered down on it, but hey so does my Cyclone. I figure if ole Big Hairy Ralph can ride an S1, I can certainly get by with riding an XB. If I get on eit will be for the track. I cannot part with my Cyclone for street duty. We've been too far for too long to split now.  "> Please excuse the typos/spelling, no time to proof tonight. edited by blake on November 10, 2003 | ||
| Tripp |
i found the article not very buell friendly despite the full page add(on the back cover even?)can't remember, left the mag at the shop.. anyway the pictures did the xb no justice! | ||
| Jim_witt |
Blake, Bet you could pick up a used one "real" cheap if you have the funds and shop around for a while. A bud of mine looked for a black, low mileage, flawless 2003 BMW K1200RS for 4 months throughout the country. He found one in CA last week. It was loaded with extras, BMW hard-bags, soft tail bag, tank bag, aftermarket muffler, chip, charger, only 4,000 miles and not ONE scratch on the puppy. Got it for $12,000. Course he's a short little fucker, shorter than me even. I'm counting on him not being able to ride it so I can get it from him real cheap. The guy owned more on it than he sold it for. My bud said he wrote a check out to the bank for $4,000 to release the lien. Amazing deal and a really pretty bike, -JW:> | ||
| Nevco1 |
Tripp...In the press, compliments of history, everything is a wait and see attitude concerning our favorite manufacturer. Not everyone in the sport is into wrenching like we are and competing with SV650's. Long term testing and a few years of reliability will give Buell the recognition it deserves. Damn, it is always tough to be an innovator, but someday the reward will be there. | ||
| Court |
I've never ridden an XB anything and am more, for the moemnt, taken with the SYSTEMS of how the XB came to be and is being supported. I love the KTM, used to own one, will again. I am amused at the number of folks compelled to compare the Buell THAT IS, to other folks bikes that COULD BE. If the 990 comes out, I think it would be fabulous. I'd still opt fot the LC640, cause it suits me. If memory serves, the 990 and the Fischer should arrive at the same time...choices...choices...choices. Cathcart does a fine job and is fun to read. He has a vested interest in maintain/protecting and promoting his "in" with European manufacturers. Not a critcism, just an observation. It's a tad like the ThunderPress guy slamming HD or Buell...."then give us those 3 project bikes back". Simple reality of the commercial end of the business. Court | ||
| Tripper |
I doubt KTM will take very much longer to get the 990 into consumers hands than Buell took with the XB9. Was that not nearly a full year from press release to deliveries? Remind me. I like the KTM sharp angle looks, they have found a style of their own and they don't intend to make it look like every other bike that came out last year. Example: Triumph is trailing in it's styling attempts. They are handsome, but the new Daytona looks like a VFR to me. But then I've always enjoyed looking at the mechanical pieces which is 1/2 of the ownership enjoyment value of the Buell. The Brutale is brutishly handsome and made me drool but I hope 27 mpg was a mistake that can be rectified by the factory, ouch. The Tuono is the supreme naked bike for me if you never get off it and look back at it. What an ugly mechanical collection of bits. I wish they would have atempted to clean it up rather than just tearing the fairing of the Mille and selling it as a new model. Shit, they should just have a bodywork delete option on the Mille price list and save printing costs! | ||
| Jim_m |
Personally, Triumph made a big mistake with the latest generation SP3 (and Daytona 955i)...the bike looks way too "chunky" to me...the 2nd gen styling still clicks for me. The Brutale looks the biz, but that headlight throws the whole thing off for me (sorry Rocket ;^D ). The Duc is looking old too, It really is in need of an updating...say along the lines of a naked 999 (damn I love that bike). The Tuono is gorgeous in person, but why does Aprilia need to slap on the "beak" fairing? The Lightning needs the Firebolt's tail (imo). The Duke needs to do something about all of it's angles, just too damn sharp. But it may be a case of seeing it in person. They all have their pluses and minuses in the styling department, but the selection has never been better. | ||
| José_quiñones |
I don't know, whenever I go to a book store and look in the magazine racks, the TOP of the magazines is the one thing you can always see. So putting the XB12, with an unusual top view shot, on the TOP of the magazine is not a bad place to put it at all. But you must complain about something, right Blake? | ||
| Court |
>>>I think, correct me here, that it's already been about twice as long. Buell announced 6 months prior to delivery. I think I recall (someone will check, I'm haven't the time) it was about a year ago that KTM released the news of the new Duke (at least that's what Cathcart says in the current article) The next part of the equation, and again I confess I'll have to reread the article, how far is the bike from being a reality? Don't get me wrong...I am a huge KTM fan and a former owner. But, at this point, I'm still usting over the last generation Duke which would make an excellent Gotham Blaster. JQ: You are right on target about cover placement. But, I'd not hold it against Blake. There are some of us who have grown a tad weary of defending Buell during the years it's been painted as the red-headed step child and "sweepings off the Harley factory floor". I relish each time Hona, Yamaha and KTM replicate a Buell concept! My personal defensiveness has been exacerbated by a spate of simple stupidity lately. I have no problem engaging you, Dyna or someone when I don't agree. Wise folks hold differing view points and I accept that. What does get my dander up is when the occasional idiot with a computer declares, at the wise age of 21, that the "XB handles poorly". Pure unadulterated idiocy. Court | ||
| Blake |
JQ, You make an interesting point. However most magazine displays I see these days present the entire magazine cover, not just the top. At least the ones I see at the airports, the local grocery store, and the local book stores. Some smaller news-stands in order to save space may display their magazines in an overlapping configuration so that only the top half is visible, I don't see that much anymore. Still, that takes nothing away from my point, that the Buell photo is small, uncomplementary, washed-out, of poor quality, and just a really awful looking photo while the Duc and MV cover shots are just the opposite. Do you really imagine that CW placed a small poor quality shot of the XB12S in the upper left hand corner of the cover to benefit Buell? I would think CW would be more concerned with trying to sell magazines than promote any brand of motorcycle. It escapes me as to how a poor quality photo of a niche market bike that has already been well exposed in the moto media would do that. No, if they were trying to catch our eye and engage our interest, they would use the MV, a largely unknown, very exotic looking bike. Which is why I would guess that it gets the majority of the cover. But I was not reviewing the integrity of the CW cover in and of itself, I was evaluating the objectivity of the CW comparison article with respect mainly to the XB12S. The cover photos as part of that article are biased towards the MV and against the Buell, no question. If the bias had just been in the cover photos, I wouldn't have mentioned it, but the entire article was slanted in the same way. The preponderance of the evidence being everything I've already listed. I now know where the author stands wrt his bias. In my opinion, he cannot be trusted to provide fair and balanced reviews of motorcycles. That said, Buells have had plenty of exposure on the covers of the Moto Magazines. Would be interesting to see how issues with Buell-featured covers faired versus others in their non-subscription sales performance. I think CW is a great magazine. I subscribe to it and will continue to do so as long as they have folks like Kevin Cameron, Steve Anderson, and Peter Egan as regular contributors. | ||
| Bomber |
I think the peice in questions was written with little seat time, at least that's the impression I got . . . .. I do know that what is published often has embarressingly small amounts of research (seat time) behind it . . . many things that folks take as gospel are actually "ride impressions," which are valid, of course, but not nearly as impartial as a full on road test or comparison test . . .. I agree with Blake on this one . . . the author had his mind made up going in . . . . | ||
| Smitty |
Rocket. Putting you off? I don’t think anyone has the capacity to do that. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Blake I think you got a badly printed version of Cycle world, because the one I got the colors and detail are fine. As to the Author's bias, need I point out that there are at least three riders that took part in that review: Matthew Miles, Mark Cernicky and Mark Hoyer, who wrote the resulting article. It's a bit unfair to accuse them all of bias if all they simply did was ride all three bikes and compare them to each other. They did not even rank them in order, they just said that practicality favored the Ducati, Passion favored the MV and PRIDE favored the Buell. Just because you disagree with their conclusion does not mean they are biased. Brittish Magazine BIKE had a very large Naked bike comparison in their June 2003 issue and they concluded that they liked the Z1000 the best, the rest of them (Tuono, SV1000S, Speed Triple, Ducati M1000S) tied for second, with the exception of the XB9S, which all the riders agreed came in last place. Performance Bikes, another Brittish magazine, tested The Speed Triple, the S4 Ducati and the XB9S in their February 2003 Issue. They liked the Speed Triple, the Ducati and then the Buell. Are all the riders that took part in those reviews biased too? edited by josé_quiñones on November 11, 2003 | ||
| Jim_witt |
Damn Brit(s) ...... they're all bias blokes, especially that damn Rocket dude! -JW:> | ||
| Iamike |
Hey Ralph- I see you made the paper today, at least it wasn't in the police report section. | ||
| Rocketman |
I mean how can you love an ill handling bike with a sticky throttle that only makes 27 mpg? I guess that was a 'hack' and thrashed by who knows how many, never mind just journo's - which would explain the throttle. As for ill handling - yeah right. 27mpg - I pay 76p per ltr and you moan. Let's face it no one's ever gonna buy a Brutale to commute on so who gives a shit how much it drinks? What's that M2 of yours 'do' when you take it to the track or give it a good proper thrashing across three states Blake? No more than 35mpg I bet? Jeez Blake - anyone'd think you're biased!  Rocket |
