| Author |
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Hexangler
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:35 pm: | 
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They just reassessed the value not to long ago... tax went up
What, no Prop. 13?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Propositio n_13_(1978) |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:40 pm: |
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In Capitalism,the strong survive and the weak fail.As it should be
That's so Darwinistic. If you really believe that you have no moral responsibility to help out your fellow man ( and I dont mean by giving them loans they cant repay) then you should be willing to accept the consequences. In other words, don't expect the less fortunate to live by your rules of civil obedience. If we are truly going to live by the Darwin code then embrace the whole code and accept that the physically strong or armed survive and not just the Capitalists. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:49 pm: |
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I have no problem helping out the people facing foreclosure on their homes. However, I think the idiots that thought it was "good business sense" in the first place to make these loans ought to face the consequences for their stupidity.
That first "bail out" was a farce. Reward those jackasses for their stupidity? Get the poor and middle class to bail out the rich?? NFW!!
As Samuel L. Jackson said: "There are ALWAYS consequences!" |
Thumper74
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 05:13 pm: |
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Wolf, you can't ask them to reassess now that it's lower? |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 05:52 pm: |
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Stop for just a moment and play a game. . . .
Imagine . . . Just imagine . . . that you are CEO of the World and your assigned responsibility is to SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
Step away from worrying about blame. . . ignore the "coulda/shoulda/woulda" . . . try to isolate yourself from even knowing there are Republicans and Democrats.
Just try to imagine a solution free of the flavor of your prejudices and preconceptions.
What would the solution be?
Try it first in a mode of "ignore consequences" (i.e. a gross failure of the banking system is just tough luck for the millions of folks wiped out)
Try it again optimized to mitigate consequences.
See if you can do it.
These are the types of decisions I've had, although much less smaller, had to make over the years as CEO of a business, with The White House Advance Team, and in my daily job.
This is a process I often use to provide a guide. I usually, after I do this, color the result with my "spin" in terms of preferences, consequences and politics. But am often amazed that many curmudgeons have the prejudices but lack the solutions. |
Hexangler
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 06:25 pm: |
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SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
Ok, call in FIMA. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 07:31 pm: |
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Give everyone a Buell motorcycle of their choice. They'll then be too busy enjoying life or spending all their time arguing on a discussion forum to cause trouble.
My first inclination would be to resurrect Lincoln and Grant and tell them that we are now the United States of Earth and that all the current troublemakers have joined in a confederacy and have fired the first shot. |
Indy_bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 08:16 pm: |
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Round up all the exec's that caused this fiasco and throw them in jail (for threatening the stability of this country they have made themselves enemies of the Constitution). Give the "bailout" money to the citizens as an economic stimulus and let all the banks in trouble fail because they were too stupid to stay in business.
Having said that, I don't believe that "economic stimulus packages" are the right thing to do. But I believe the money would be better spent.
(Message edited by indy_bueller on September 30, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 08:33 pm: |
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>>>>Round up all the exec's that caused this fiasco and throw them in jail
How ya'll feel about tossing the folks who, with monthly disposable income of $2,400, were taking on mortgage payments of $1,987 ??
Shall the stupid join the dishonest?
If I offered to sell you a new 1125R for $2,000 supposed you'd have any responsibility to ask more questions? Then, if you had a problem, how would you view your right to complain? Should I be rounded up and jailed for selling it to you?
No position here, just asking.
The stupid, like electrons in the "K" shell, tend to attract each other. |
Hexangler
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 08:47 pm: |
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uh, unless your talking hydrogen atoms only, your analogy is nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_shell |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 08:47 pm: |
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1.) The people should sieze( i don't know how we could ) the money in the democratic and republican campaign funds dump it back into the fed coffers
2.)take the CEO's that caused the most damage and give them 12 months to turn a profit with no pay or life in prison and total siezure of all FAMILY ASSETS 5 years will be reduced for every year the company does well IRS audited
3.) Loan the money only to the organizations that will actually survive under these conditions
4.) Congress goes on social security retirement just like everyone else if they drop the ball inside 15 years by letting any of the previos 3 rules go bad
5.)Take fuel oil off the comodities list deam it untradable a sort of gold standard if you will
6.) bonafide increase in alternative fuel reseach Hell I am a forklift mechanic and I can build an electric car that works well I mean really well.
These simple 6 rules could seriously help us back to the promised land quickly. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 09:04 pm: |
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If you want to throw out our system of jurisprudence then we can do what you suggest, Brumbear. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 09:05 pm: |
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New rule. You start a bank, you fail, you forfeit your assets and walk away. No one can pick it back up. All moneys loaned out are canceled as paid and no longer collectible. No one can pick up the loans to collect. No one can bail you out. You carry the costs into your future.
Play it like all of us small business owners have to. How many business owners that have failed have had their futures wrecked by debt that was un-payable and receivables that became un-collectible.
Life sucks, play hard. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 09:08 pm: |
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my other suggestion was getting a bunch of thugs in brown shirts and beating the shyt of the masses until we get what we need
effective but played |
Indy_bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 10:42 pm: |
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I don't disagree with you Court. But I'd say the decision by these banks to finance the subprime mortgages that they did had far greater impact. The people running these institutions are supposed to be smart. They let their greed get in the way of their common sense. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 07:00 am: |
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Brumbear: Congress has been paying into Social Security for the past 24 years: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp
Don't believe everything you read in an E-Mail someone forwarded to you. |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 07:17 am: |
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quote:How ya'll feel about tossing the folks who, with monthly disposable income of $2,400, were taking on mortgage payments of $1,987 ??
Shall the stupid join the dishonest?
Yes, I believe they should (figuratively) be joined: send the mortgage brokers that sold these Yugo's to the morons to JAIL, likewise with the bankers that represented these crap collections as assets, and let the stupid be foreclosed.
I remember a time in my not too distant past arguing with my wife about stopping for a cup of coffee on my way to work, and her telling me that my $1.20 per day wasn't in the budget. Every lunch was bagged, and was reliable PB&J since a jar would last a week. THAT is what was within our means at the time, so that's what we did.
If you bought a house on an ARM, on an interest-only, or even at the limit of your disposable income, then I've little sympathy. None, really.
I wrote my congressman, I asked for a no vote on the bailout, and that I wanted indictments first. Court, maybe you're connected enough to say that this will be a bad thing for JQ Public, but the gov't hasn't done a very good job as explaining WHY. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 08:08 am: |
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Jaimie we all pay social security except if you work for 4 years and then you have to wait till your 67 or early for less see what you get for the rest of your life and a congressman would get a check after the term for life and at 67 he can also collect wait for it social security we are bleeding off billions on shit like this
Common sense works better than Emails but in this case maybe the brown shirts might actually be warrented |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 08:47 am: |
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Court wrote:
"
Imagine . . . Just imagine . . . that you are CEO of the World and your assigned responsibility is to SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
Step away from worrying about blame. . . ignore the "coulda/shoulda/woulda" . . . try to isolate yourself from even knowing there are Republicans and Democrats.
Just try to imagine a solution free of the flavor of your prejudices and preconceptions."
I'll cut you guys and our gubmint a deal I've cut with my employers are clients for decades.
When (not if) you find a problem, it's bomber's fault.
No doubt about it -- even if it happened before you knew me, or after I left, it bomber's fault.
THis saves untold hour of pissing, moaning, whinging, whining, finger-pointing and nose-picking, and you can move on to solve the problem.
So -- current economic woes -- it's bomber's fault.
Step up with a solution. |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 09:29 am: |
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it's bomber's fault
I like it! Y'all will be seeing a lot more of this in the future...so much so, in fact, that I propose a new internet abbreviation:
IBF
Whattaya think?
rt |
Greenlantern
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:13 am: |
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Shall the stupid join the dishonest?
In all fairness the "stupid" should be called the "Uber-Stupid" as the large majority of people i observe these days are financially stupid. I hear it from neighbors and acquaintances in suburbia all the time, "We're going thru some troubles", " things have gotten too expensive" "Taxes , taxes taxes" "Government this, Democrats / Republicans that". Meanwhile these people carry a mortgage, have 2,3 or 4 cars, Flatscreens with full service cable in every room and a boat sprinkled here and there for good measure,go out , entertain or vacation on a constant basis. they are not making the $200 to $300 thousand a year it takes to live such a lifestyle where I live . I carry a mortgage and my Buell payments as my only extended debt. I have a Wife and 2 children and 1 salary. We have 1 car in the family . We only use the credit card if the transaction can be paid in full within the 25 days. all utilities and bills are paid in full and on time. Too many people seem to be in some kind of "most things, look at me daddy" contest that all end up costing my honest fat ass money down the line whether through bailouts or some other half assed tax break legislation. Say that I am harsh, but imo, either live within your means or shut your freaking mouth when the bottom falls out. |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
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live within your means
I still want a 1125R.... I know I should NOT even be thinking about it....
But I'm sure I will have one before the next race season starts..... I'm a sucker for speed.
It would be nice to know how hard the commercial building industry will be hit.
I buy products from all over Ohio, Ky, Pa, Mi,Ny,Tn..... and ship them all over the country. Mostly for chain restaurants, just read last night that Sonic can't get any more loans. No loan = no more building = a huge drop in sales for all the companies I buy from..... less bucks in my pocket... no 1125R... Erik wont be pleased... |
Indy_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
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+1 Greenlantern
I waited until housing prices fell to buy a house. I bought a house in May for less than 50% of what it sold for in 2004. Not including taxes and insurance, my payments are less than I paid monthly for my last apartment.
After having gone through the mortgage closing, I find it very hard to believe that anyone who signed one of those risky mortgages did not know what they were getting into. It was very clear to me what my responsibilities were. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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IBF, aye! |
Rainman
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 11:15 am: |
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We're doomed! Doooooooooomed, I tell you.
I think there's more than enough blame to go around here, from the folks buying houses they can't afford to the idiots who made lots of money selling unaffordable mortgages to those people to the banks that traded the mortgages back and forth to the Congress that encouraged the sales to the Congress that turned a blind eye to bizarre Wall Street movements.
Of course, the majority of the blame falls directly on Bomber.... |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
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I'm with ziptab on this one, virtually no stock market exposure, all my assets in my own hands.
As for Court's idea, if I was in charge things would be different, VERY different, in fact so different, I'd probably end up being assassinated.
But it'd fun while it lasts, & I don't forget my friends, (or grudges, heh heh)
Benign dictatorship is the way to go, with me at the top, me me me ME, it's the only solution.
You know it makes sense.  |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 11:53 am: |
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Rainman-- you are clearly a quick study -- well done! |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:14 pm: |
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If its all bombers fault he should get a bailout of 1 or 2 billion so where's the party |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:22 pm: |
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soon as the gubmint check clears, the party will be based in Welcome, Tejas, and extend acoss the country as fast as tires allow |
Rainman
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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I'll host the Blue Ridge Mountain/Virginia section, providing Bomber doesn't forget to pay the electricity bill, again! |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 06:01 pm: |
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Done!
rt |
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