| Author | Message | ||
     Kaudette |
Just a thought here - Ducati is on the market apparently as the VC firm that bought them out is looking to sell. Why wouldn't HD take a piece of them? Full of History, good presence on the racing front - V2 heritage and a decent sports / cruiser range with the accessories to go along with the bikes - plus decent WWD distribution. This would really make a one stop shop and Buell / Ducati could come together over the next 5 years and build the best V2 bikes in the world! | ||
| Dynarider |
They had their opportunities in the past to buy them & declined. Same with cannondale & I believe even KTM was on the market a few years back & HD looked into it, but so no thanks. | ||
| Court |
Can you say "Italian Government" . . . try "back taxes". Court (proud owner of DMH) | ||
| Sgtbuell |
Speaking of Ducati What do you all think of them. I am thinking about picking up a used 996 or 998 next year as my second bike. | ||
| Daves |
I have a 2002 998 on the floor right now I'd make you a Sweeeeeet deal on. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) 1-800-342-7539-ext 211 | ||
| Mikej |
With as many problems some people have dealing with Buell issues at a Harley dealership, can you imagine if Harley dealerships were also given Ducatis to sell? Ducati has nothing Harley wants. I am seeing more Harley shops starting to sell KTMs though.  Oh well, off to research current market movements on Triumphs for a side/background project I'm looking into. | ||
| Tripper |
MikeJ, that is a scary scenario. I would like the opportunity to buy a Buell from a Ducati shop though. | ||
| Mikej |
You'll probably be able to buy a new Buell at a Duc shop before you'll see a new XB-T. (Now, where's that ' just fishin' emoticon.) | ||
| Kevyn |
Buy a 996 or 998???? What are you thinking?! Jeez, there'd be valve adjustments, chain maintenance, chips and PCIII's to fool with. Lightened fly wheels, noisy clutches, adjustable rear sets, steering dampners and all the fairing pieces and fastners...Showa and Ohlins suspensions just waiting for a tweaking. Isn't there enough to fool with on the Buell?? You'd have to contend with DNA and a similar dealer network, mechanics drooling to smear their greasy hands all over your precious Italian machinery, lusting to put it past the redline on a test ride. Get real, it's a junk chrome-moly tube frame, Buell ditched those ages ago!  There's no color choice for heaven's sake! Red, Yellow. or red & white or yellow & white.  And really, a GSX-1000 can put some serious whoop-ass on 'em any day of the week and twice on Sunday. However, if you just have to have a serious 'poser' bike, then by all means a Duc 996 or 998 is the way to go. Yes, I said 'poser' bike. There is no way you'll ever press your precious Duc as hard as you press that brawny Buell bastard. Rumor has it that the Duc's carve a sweet corner but chances are you'll never let that svelte red fairing anywhere near asphalt. Much safer to keep it home in the garage where all good Ducati's are safe; change the oil or something, it'll make you feel better and keep the miles off the odo. You won't be risking a chance encounter with LE should you happen to exceed a posted limit just cruising through town lookin' cool on your Duc... Buy a Ducati...bwaahaaahaaaahaaaa  edited by Kevyn on November 03, 2003 | ||
| Sarodude |
Cheese n' Rice... Imagine the guys unable or unwilling to do a proper TPS reset doing a Desmo valve adjustment... -Saro | ||
| Paroyboy |
There's no color choice for heaven's sake! Red, Yellow. or red & white or yellow & white. Speaking of lack of color choices, you cave have an XB9R in any color you want as long as its blue. What happened to white? Why not have the yellow as a choice? Harley admits to burning itself with the limited color choices for the anniversary year. Why is Buell doing the same thing? | ||
| Spiderman |
Harley already tried that. Remember Arimachi? | ||
| Kaudette |
Sorry for getting out of typical board etiquette, however the thought behind this was more from a sales & marketing perspective for HD Corp - Ducati has righted the ship and is turning a profit, has a 3 new motor platforms V2DS-aircooled, V2 Testeratta and V4 Testeretta on the way. In addition to that they "own" the high end sport brand space and have a pretty broad aftermarket and apparel line. There is NO overlap on product and the philosophies are complementary - Ford / Aston Martin, Volkswagon / Lamborghini, etc... Yeah, it could take some time to consolidate the dealer network and get the people trained but this can be done. As for Italian back taxes, their president is a guy named Berlusconi - if he can get away without paying them why not HD!? Food for thought. And as for the 998 vs. GSXR comment, the 996/998 is going to go down in history as one of the most influential sport bikes of the 20th century while the gixxer (and just about everything Suzuki) will long have returned to the primordial parts bin from which it was built. | ||
| Court |
See Sam Zell run. >>>As for Italian back taxes, their president is a guy named Berlusconi There President's name has been LOTS of things over the last couple years. What part of this do you think HD would have any interest in? I'm really curious. This subject comes around about every 18 months and survived the "Ducati cut off my venodrs", Sam Zell and TPG eras. I'm wanting to hear more input. | ||
| Glitch |
What part of this do you think HD would have any interest in? Growing the business? They wouldn't have to remake HD/Buell or integrate, just own and operate Ducati. Kinda like what Ford has done with their acquisitions. | ||
| Mikej |
"Kinda like what Ford has done with their acquisitions. " Do you know anyone in the industry? There is no "just own and operate", there is no "just". | ||
| Glitch |
I don't know anyone in the motorcycle industry. But I work with a lot of big wigs that have bought other companies and the consumer doesn't necessarily know or care who owns the product company. Oversimplified I admit. I was only talking about what the consumer sees. | ||
| Court |
Mike: Dead on. Wish you'd been at the "History of Ducati" talk I gave at the grand opening of the Times Square store. Ducati is a most interesting company that, after many years of home appliances, toasters, radios and capacitors, got into motorcycles. They do evoke a passion not unlike Buell and, to their credit, the company has come light years in the last couple years. I see the lure, but I also have to question and challenge ANYTHING that diverts resources and focus from Buell dealing with two HUGE issues at present. Please don't get me wrong. My cousin has a Hailwood, my best friend a Ducati (a gift from Ducati NA) and in my mind Ducatis SCREAM sex on wheels. But, their dealership is in much worse condition than what Buell has to work with. Erik Buell and team have their work cut out for them, they can do it, they will do it. Please...toss the juggler no more balls. Court | ||
| Kaudette |
Let's face it - HD is a MARKETING Machine these days and has a good (I don't like it personnally but it works for them) store and retailing concept that would fit like a glove for Duc - they consolidate their spares and stock networks and do the same to select big name dealers - this gets GLOBAL distribution up and running well for both - critical mass on the global level and a huge well to tap on the retail side of the house - plus HD has the cash to expand on the financing side of things which Duc can't do these days so another revenue stream for HD. Buell gets MUCH better pricing for their components (forks & shocks come to mind...) - the Duc renaissance models they are coming out with are just what you would need to see on a HD / Buell floor to get the juices flowing. It's all about the brand, global retail network and expanding into a non-cannibalizing area. I've not looked at the financials becausue I don't work for either company but I'm sure this could work - just need some italian lessons for those in Wisconsin... | ||
| Mikej |
There are many issues in the automotive industry with all the mergers, beyond just Ford. Sometimes problems arise in a conflict between different standard business practices, sometimes in corporate culture, and sometimes in appreciation of what a merged company offers beyond simply market share and perceived customer base demographics. I personally think a major shortfall of the Harley corporate culture is in their applied or perceived concept of what they define as "growing the business". They, in my opinion, look at current and past sales, see growth, proclaim tradition is good, and carry on with expanded products offerings in the way of mildly massaged products, updated clothing lines that to an outsider look exactly the same as previous year's stuff, and once in a great while they'll come out with something as the V-Rod, or as mind-numbing as rubber-mounting the Sportster engine and wanting the customer-base to believe they've just invented a Jetson's Space Scooter. In my opinion, the only way Harley will every buy Ducati is if all the Davidson's leave or are ousted from the firm. But then I could be completely wrong and old WillieG could own a 996 at home which he's put 30,000 miles on while wearing JoeRocket gear and a mirrored faceshield so nobody sees who he is while riding it. Yeah, I could be wrong. A much more likely scenario is Harley buying Segway. Think about that one for awhile. | ||
| Glitch |
Issues are called growing pains. And nothing worth while is easy. The question I answered was what interest would Harley have, answer being only growing the business. Not how or why or how hard it would be. Harley will stay Harley, and buying Buell proves it (to me anyway). Segway?  | ||
| Gearloose |
No poser owned the one Dave has on the floor or the 4 before it!!! Gearloose | ||
| Mikej |
I can actually easily imagine Segways being sold in Harley stores. And I imagine they/Harley would come up with a vast array of SegWare for their clothing and accessories departments (as noted by the tassles in the pic ). I can even imagine Harley sales and service department personnel being more enthusiastic about selling Seg-Davidson's than many of them are in selling or working on Buells. In fact I would not be surprised at all to see a merger announced and product being offered this season for a new Davidson-Segway product line. The only real question I have is how well would a Davidson-Segway perform in BattleTrax? I don't want to try to imagine what a Seg-Chopper would look like, but I imagine that ApeHangers and SaddleBags would be in the mix. | ||
| Gearloose |
And a mini drummer!!  No offense Buckinfubba. Gearloose | ||
| Kaudette |
I thought the hard-core harley people already got around on used golf carts! - this Segway "thing" doesn't look to have enough room to store the 6-pack of bud so it's a dud from the get-go. That was a joke - even if true. | ||
| Glitch |
Bagger:  | ||
| Bomber |
H-D will only buy Ducati when all the Harleys have been ousted from the company . .. . oops! (smile) I can't think of an auto takeover that's worked nearly as well as the originators hoped, nor as seemlessly as Glitch's bigwigs have described . . . one of the issues affecting this is that of complexity . .. . a modern motor vehicle is as complex a device as upright humankind has ever produced, and when the accounting department starts to steer things to realize the economies of scale that sold the merger in the first place, things fall apart rapidly . . . if this is true on the scale of Ford, or Benz, imagine tryin to save consierable money on the forks that both Buell and Ducati use . . . .those savings wouldn't pay for the lawyers who draft the paperwork . . .. another thing affecting the issue is passion . .. .motorcycles are hobbies in the US, and they are designed, marketed, and, unfortunately, serviced as hobbies (anything ever come of Aerostich's rating dealers who help people that use their bike for transportation?) . .. the buy of a Sebring may not care if the CEO lives in Germany, or that some of the engineering that went into that care was done by a turkish guestworker . . . the purchaser of a telephone couldn't care less if the design comes from Finland, and the toaster buyer . . . .you get the idea people are passionate about their scoots (either positively or negatively) . . . H-D and Ducati have little in common, and I'd hate to see what happened to the culture that has done such an outstanding job with Ducati is they were sold to H-D or other US-publically owned company . . . it would be a sad day for both parties, I'm thinkin | ||
| Mikej |
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| S320002 |
With as many problems some people have dealing with Buell issues at a Harley dealership, can you imagine if Harley dealerships were also given Ducatis to sell? Harleys and Ducs have been sold side by side at the same dealership in Missoula, Montana for years. | ||
| Court |
And I have posted the picture of that dealership (there ARE others as well.....) each and every time this topic has surfaced since 1994. Court |
