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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive through September 09, 2008 » Cycle World Oct Re: Harley's buy of MV « Previous Next »

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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Okay so it seems the Mo Co has bought MV Agusta. If you read this article it quotes Harley CEO Jim Ziemer as stating the Buell brand will not be threatened by MV and "We have done a great job with Buell". Uh, yeah Jim. While most dealers shy away from the Buell and treat perspective customers like dirt, you've been just fabulous. Iam glad to see the MoCo take the glory for the Buell brand then continually allow shops of this quality to keep doing business. Want an 1125r? Oh we dont sell those. We just have the sign. Need parts? Uh.....is that the same as a sportster? Why no, its a Buell. Am I the only one that see's this as BS? Am I not getting the whole picture? Someone please explain it to me. Oh yeah, I CALL BULLS--T!!!
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

He's right though, MV is something beyond Buell, MV will have its own customer base, Buell will have theirs, Harley Mo Co will have theirs. All HDI did, imho, is to expand their customer base and dealer network. Something they need to do is grow beyond the cruiser. They're doing that. And it appears that Buells success showed HD how important sportbike sales are.

Its actually nice to hear Zeimer give Buell props and let folks know that Buell is here to stay. Understand this, Buell is not on an island by its own. Harley has had a hand in making it grow, they own Buell so why wouldn't they take credit for its success?

Does Harley have homework to do to aid in expanding BMC? hell yes. Dealer complaints seem to be THE biggest downfall to owning a Buell.
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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Okay, so I see the positives in what has been stated. I guess I expect alot more from my local dealers. Must be alittle jaded by the fact I cant find a good dealer within 150 miles. There is one that does try a bit but the general consensus by the local is the Buell is a stepping stone to a HD. If I wanted a slow heavy bike I'd be in heaven. Lets hope the Co will wake up and finally help support the Buell. Half assed is not my idea of support, then to claim the kudo's for the turn around of Buell. I wont rant anymore. Thanks for listening boys and girls...........ride hard be safe.
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Slaughter
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't hit the "OFF" switch on your rant. A whole lot of us don't have much confidence in HD's ability to handle ANYTHING that looks like performance machinery. They have seemed to think they can just "grow" the required talent from within... RRrrrriiiiight!!!

I've had my own rants on a few other threads elsewhere.

I can only hope that they are serious about changing their image AND their markets.

I'm about tired of owning a Buell and being associated with skulls, flames, chrome and tassels. NO sportbike rider looking to change from say an R6 or GSXR is going to be caught walking into an HD store... with very rare exceptions. Harley can't expect to sell sportbikes to their historical customer base.

When I walk in, I would hope that somebody could speak intelligently about suspension, tire choices, track days, performance accessories (and NOT JUST engine mods)
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"They have seemed to think they can just "grow" the required talent from within... RRrrrriiiiight!!!"

When HD began the VR1000 program they went to Roush racing to help with engine development. They then took one of their lead engineers, Steve Scheibe, who became project head. HD then hired, Miguel Duhammel, Doug Chandler and Pascal Picotte to ride it, knowing nobody from inside HD could.

Harley turned to Porsche to help with the VRod motor and has used Rotax before.

Harley, has historically went outside the company for help with projects. What they need to do to show they're serious about sportbikes is develope bikes through a racing program and not leave it, wasted, after 13 years like they did with the VR1000. That racing program would have been a huge leap for HD's sportbike sales for Buell and MV. I honestly believe that if they would have stuck it out, they'd be the owners of Ducati.

What do you think Steve?
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Rainman
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Marketing. They need to figure out how to market Buell, first to the dealers and then to the people. They already have an image in place for MV Agusta.

I like H-D. I'd love a Cross Bones and a Lightning Ss to go with the Blast. To me, the problem is best explained by the STT: What was the bike about? Cool number plates!
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Kyrocket
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

All I can say is thank God for the internet, or should I thank Al Gore, I forget. Anyway, my local dealer has proven to me time and time again, most recently Monday, that they have no interest in providing service, parts, or help when it comes to Buells. Thankfully I can read and turn and wrench and parts are usually just a click away, just a longer waiting period to get them. I've read, mostly with disgust, about all you Badwebbers who live close to a Buell mecca that have people who are actually enthusiastic about the brand, have parts in stock and are glad to see you. Well poo on you. Just kidding. I just wish my local dealer had a percentage of a fraction of what they have for a HD.
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Xl1200r
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When I walk in, I would hope that somebody could speak intelligently about suspension, tire choices, track days, performance accessories (and NOT JUST engine mods)

I consider my delaer to be pretty good. The Buells have their own little space with good visibility, and although they don't stock a lot of accessories, they always seem to have whatever part I need in stock, and many of the parts and service guys own Buells and enjoy the bikes.

However, I like your comment, Steve. When I picked up my Firebolt, I asked what they had set the suspension to. I was told they didn't touch it because they don't know how to do that kind of stuff.

No big deal - would have redone it anyways, but I chuckled.
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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

They'd be owners of Ducati? Well I guess it would be a fit.........overpriced bikes sitting in a boutique setting. Perfect if you follow the way they do it now. I love the ducks, dont get me wrong. Lust over them constantly. Heck, I even lust over a few HD's. One isnt available to the Americans yet? And yet another screwed up idea from the Co. Give it to the Euro's and not in USA where the damn thing is built? I think as long as they sell the cruisers to well heeled buyers and NOT riders they'll do fine. Leave Buell to itself and continue to struggle. We dont really want an AMERICAN made sportbike do we? That in itself is what they (the Co) has been telling us. Oh you want the Buell for your first bike, then buy one of these so you can be cool. I said I wouldnt rant anymore, guess I just folllowed the old Harley way. Say one thing, do another.
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"They'd be owners of Ducati? Well I guess it would be a fit.........overpriced bikes sitting in a boutique setting."

That's exactly what's going to happen with HD's purchase of MV Agusta.
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Jaimec
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Last time I looked, MV Agusta on average is more expensive than Ducati. Even the price of the Desmosedici pales in comparison to the F4CC!
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Jerseyguy
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I feel very fortunate to live within an hour's drive of one of the best Buell/HD dealers in the country. Without Liberty I don't think I'd be as enthusiastic about the brand as I am. It looks like I'll also be a Brutale R owner soon. It will be interesting to see if I get the same level of dealer support as I get for my XB12Ss and 1125r.
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Rainman
Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I know many dealers stink. Although my dealer doesn't have a big selection of Buells and sell many more H-Ds, they have the parts I need usually in stock and they care about getting them quickly if they don't have them. They've treated me well, even if Buells are a tiny fraction of their sales and service income.
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Retrittion
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I live MVs and all but this just looks like HD trying to branch out to Europe where their economy isn't F'd up plus maybe get some design and engineering options for HDi.

Here in Washington go to Legend in Silverdale -- they nice folks that don't flinch when you say Buell, plus Cityxslicker and his MutaBuell work there. I am sure if you check around most places have a decent dealer around you...
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Swampy
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well the crazy thing is I can walk into just about any HD store and find any nut, bolt or part I need and choose between satin or chrome finish for a 91 Sportster. If I don't tell them what it is for, I can get it for a Buell.
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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree with the statement about branching out into another economy. Also with maybe a design or idea bank. Doesnt change my thoughts or feelings of being treated like a dirtbag by someone who doesnt have a clue about my bike and supposed to represent Buell. And yes Swampy, you are quite correct. If I dont tell them I need that particular oil filter for a Buell I can get it in black or chrome with a smile and a wave. I'm sorry, I feel the statement was made by Ziemer without a thought or clue about what the real situation is. They (the co) did not do great with Buell. Buell has done great for itself in its trend setting ideas and engineering. I do want an a-- kicking AMERICAN sportbike and will continue to bitch and moan about the lack of adequate support by the Co. Screw MV. Support your AMERICAN people here not over there. Think what could have been done with that money directed to BUELL. This transmission now ending THANKYOU!
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well I know I was happy that I bought a later model year than the bike I originally fell in love with, once Buell had Harley's financial backing the product coming out of the door was a lot more reliable.

I've Loved the S1 since I first read about them in '97, but things really seemed to improve once the '99 model year came online.

It can be frustrating, 7-10 days for pretty much any Buell specific parts I ever need but they treat me well enough at the dealership. South Valley and Salt Lake still take care of me, even though Salt Lake doesn't wear a Buell sign anymore.

I think The Company has done well in supporting Buell in building the better bike that is on the market today.

That's my take on it, I understand the Dealership rant though, I'm not ignorant and have been into those places that turn their noses up to a Buell. Those guys just don't see my money anymore.

-Mike
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Steve_mackay
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When I walk in, I would hope that somebody could speak intelligently about suspension, tire choices, track days, performance accessories (and NOT JUST engine mods)


My local HD/Buell dealership knows FAR more about those things than most of the "other" brands dealerships in the area.

But they'll certainly try and sell a 18 year old first rider a GSXR1K, because he'll "outgrow a 600 in no time" : )
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

MV Agusta is nearer to Buell in spirit than HD or Ducati, in my opinion, both of whom are motorcycle based lifestyle purveyors.

It'd make sense to me to put the MV & Buell dealers together, separate from HD dealers, even if only to stop all the poor relation gripes.

Then you'd have a proper bike shop for the sport riders & a retail shopping experience for the Orange & Black crowd.

But I'm sure somebody on here with knowledge vastly superior to mine will pop up & write a long screed explaining why such is neither possible/desirable/workable or whatever & why I'm such a dummass who knows jacksh...

I have to confess I bought a pair of Buell boots, I probably could have made a better purchase, but hey it was a great deal.

I do know a number of HD riders & Ducati riders too, most of them ride as a fashion statement. One I've seen in HD socks & another wears Ducati underpants, according to his wife.
(I had absolutely NO desire to verify her statement but I have no reason to think she lied)

I know that's how these companies make their cream, with all the knick-knacks & such, but I'd rather the dealer put his money into parts inventory than crap I've no intention of buying.
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Ironken
Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A little off topic, but, I was schooled at the local Harleyween shop that Buells do not use the same oil filters as H-Ds. Not even the tubers ( I knew that the XBs did not, but, tubers???? ). Learn something new every day....even if it is crap! They did happily have Bad Faces on sale today though for all the noobs to ride with.....
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