| Author | Message | ||
     Tramp |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_iraq_contractors | ||
| Rocketsprink |
there's a shock....NOT!} | ||
| Spatten1 |
Damn tax and spend Conservatives. | ||
| Teddagreek |
That's nothing new... The sad part is our service men and women have to ability to do most these jobs and do them properly... We have around 10-13 deaths due to Electrocution from improperly built showers from Haliburton. http://westtnliving.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/us-so ldiers-repeatedly-die-of-electrocution-in-iraqs-us -army-base-showers-kbr-noted-%E2%80%9Cseveral-safe ty-issues-concerning-the-improper-grounding-of-ele ctrical-devices%E2%80%9D-but-kbr/ This shit is half ass because no one is accountable. No Combat engineer or Seabee is going half ass his work.. This is not a war, its presidential approved royal fleecing of our tax dollars.. There was and is a lot to gain by this conflict lasting.. Makes you wonder why our armed forces have such strict and complicated rules of engagement. | ||
| Hexangler |
Q: How many billion spent on New Orleans post Katrina? | ||
| Greenlantern |
A: Somewhere near 1.5 billion went to fraudulent claims. Seems war is not the only disaster ripe for profiteering, | ||
| Hexangler |
Good answer! From my Google-skim, I found about $14 Billion to date. | ||
| Brumbear |
see our state and fed need those fuel tax dollars good thing the oil companies are doing so well it can finance the peace effort being as the oil companies have to find it drill it ship it refine it ship it again to turn a profit and all our illustrious leaders have to do is tax it and they too make record income wow who knew | ||
| Hexangler |
There is exhibited a fine line between profiteering and capitalism... | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I really enjoyed feeding at the contractor trough -- good stuff. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I wouldn't expect contractor labor to be any cheaper than the US military. If it costs the same, I'd be surprised. The issue is whether there are 190,000 extra military bodies to fill the gap. I don't know that there are. I agree that military folks could do the job better, but let's not assume that if the military did it that there would be no waste. The military still uses $500 hammers and $200 toilet seats. Gotta fund those black helicopters somehow.  | ||
| Tramp |
$500.000 hammers and $200.00 headsets still represent a form of outsourcing, little removed from civilian contracting. Where are the federal prison populations when milspec hammers and headsets are indicated? | ||
| Miamiuly |
http://iraqforsale.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY or for the readers http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I had a big long boring post about contractors,,,,I deleted it. The contractors are overwhelmingly retired military or at least prior service -- I worked with most of the big providers of talent in both theaters and the only one I met was a truck driver (and he washed out.) No one every discusses why the DOD has to supplement on such a vast scale either. Yes, there's always been some type of supplemental workforce since the beginning of American warfare, but it's bigger now and history tells even the most ardent supporter of hate America first why,,,,,,if they'd only open up to the truth. We had that one super slick president that decided that the Army only needed 535,000 troops (I don't know what the damages were to the other forces,) and a bunch of other crap that tossed morale down the poop chute, but I digress. A huge group of career soldiers took early retirement or just some financial incentives to leave it all behind -- we're talking about career soldiers with the experience and training gone. That's the bulk of who'd be senior level NCO's and Officers at this time. Goes right fricking through me too,,,,dang,,,I have a physical in 2 hours and you guys have screwed up my numbers for sure. | ||
| Tramp |
You're politicizing the issue too much. It's not that the DOD et al hire out contractors, it's what they're paying them and also who run the contractor firms.... | ||
| Tramp |
...and where and why the fhuck does "hate America" enter into this? | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I was not assigning that value to you -- you linked to AP and they suck in my view. Again, it wasn't slung at you, but it was slung. | ||
| Tramp |
I didn't think you assigned it to me, as I'd expect you'd understand me better than that. AA means something different to to some, than it does to legs. Invoking "hate America" implies an attempt to call anyone who disagrees with this overpay/overrun of mil. contractors an 'America Hater, which is disingenuous, at best. I feel that the DOD overpays contractors, often with murky-at-best bidding practices. Doesn't mean I hate my nation. My love for my nation is what disgusts me about others ripping it off for their own personal gain. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I feel that the DOD overpays contractors, often with murky-at-best bidding practices. Agreed. I was on the very tail-end of the process and feel/felt zero guilt. 20+ years of "good Army pay" and I was chasing some dollars. I believe your statement fits well on not only the DOD process, but the entire alphabet of gubmint agencies 'outsourcing' work. | ||
| Tramp |
What pisses me off, the most, is the claim that there simply isn't enough $$$ to purchase armour for vehicles and personnel, in-country. This is where I take the greatest issue with this circus | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Agreed. If you can't afford to give American troops the necessary tools to be war-fighters then you can't afford to fight. I'm all for anything that preserves American lives and allows them to come home with a sound body, mind, & soul. The seitengewehr is no longer a viable option in combat -- 7th Army NCOA thought differently at one time  | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Well Iraq is doing well, monetary wise... Estimated $79 Billion Budget Surplus by year's end. | ||
| Greenlantern |
A one to one ratio of contractor to military personnel rings more of some backward version of the bounty exemption of the Conscription act of 1863. Circumvention at work? "We are coming Father George, We are marching to your call. We are marching father george, 190,000 more." | ||
| Tramp |
...and, again, all this happens while politicians accuse those who speak against further Iraq spending as "not caring about the safety of troops" | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Read "Generation Kill" | ||
| Tramp |
yeah- Novels will give you all the facts.  | ||
| Bill0351 |
"We had that one super slick president that decided that the Army only needed 535,000 troops." In 1940 we had about 350,000 active duty military personnel. Five years later we had done our share to crushingly defeat the entire axis. In 1985 we had 2,200,000 active troops! Why? In 2005 we had 1,400,000 active duty troops. I think the numbers are about the same today. It is a HUGE drain on our federal budget that could be spent on infrastructure and industry. I think an efficient well supplied standing military of about 500,000 sounds about right to me. Bill | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I think an efficient well supplied standing military of about 500,000 sounds about right to me. You could be right I don't know. I know that history teaches us that some really bright military minds, the post WWII leaders in fact, thought much the same and in 1950 Task Force Smith hit the news cycle. I'd guess it's a lot like automobile insurance -- sucks to pay for it, sucks worse to not have it all. There must be a happy medium in there somewhere and yea I have no clue where it is. | ||
| Bill0351 |
The lesson I take from all the reading I have done lately is that a healthy industrial base and a motivated patriotic population are what keeps us safe. A huge standing military is like letting your house fall because you spent every last cent you had (and borrowed from your Chinese neighbors) to keep WAY too much insurance on it. I am extremely pro-military and extremely patriotic in my own way. I just hate watching what I think is the cynical profit taking that is being done in the name of keeping America free. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Bill, Our differences on this issue are minute and probably more semantics than reality -- great point on the Chinese financing schema/fiasco. |
