| Author | Message | ||
     Santafe |
This last weekend was my first Brag ride and I was really anticipating a great time. Friday, on the ride to Show Low, I witnessed the first accident in Salt River Canyon (incredible ride and now, one of my favorites). Although I have ridden for more years than I care to admit, it was the first serious accident I have witnessed on the road. I'm no stranger to crashes, having road raced in Wash. and Oregon for years and crashed myself at Steamboat but, that was a sobering sight. Sheer insanity to be passing on a blind corner. I thought that nothing could be worse than that accident was. Boy, was I wrong. When we arrived in Show Low after a more sedate pace, I met Al, Daryl, and many others and held the flashlight for Daryl as he helped fix Al's bike. What a great bunch of riders! Murrae, my riding partner and Service Mgr for my favorite HD/Buell dealer in Santa Fe was also right there helping fix Al's bike. The next day's ride started out at a brisk, but safe pace and got progressively faster as it warmed up. I echo Al's experience with the passing; many times it was just too fast and unsafe. When we got to the turnoff to 191, Murrae tried to let people know what to expect in the road ahead and how dangerous that blind right-hand, decreasing radius turn was with the spectacular views that opened up ahead. When I came upon the accident at that turn all I could say was, Oh no! Not again! It was a real shock for me to see it was Daryl that was down because, even though he was riding fast and somewhat reckless, he appeared competent enough to take a corner like that without crashing. That was the most traumatic motorcycle related accident I have ever seen and the memory of Daryl's face and injuries will stay with me for a long, long time. I am a commercial pilot with many Alaska bush hours. Talking about incidents/accidents up there was the only way to learn from mistakes so you don't experience them yourself. I lost many friends to aircraft accidents and now I am experiencing the same thing in my favorite sport on two wheels. I encourage the sharing of experiences we had this past weekend on this site and others so that the next ride I take, and I will go on another Brag ride, is safer and unmarred by unnecessary accidents. The Brag folks put on a great event (thanks, Peggy and Mary) with the most incredible route I have ever ridden. I hope that the next Brag ride I go on is as good. I will be a better rider for having experienced these events and I hope to encounter the riders I met again on another ride. I hope all who needed to learn from this, learned that it's the fun that counts and the good memories you take home, not how many people you passed or how fast you went through the corners and on the straights. As Al said earlier, "but if his (Daryl's) death has any meaning, it's that folks should learn about passing protocol and maintaining distance in group rides". The pre-ride meeting should stress this over and over. I don't ever want to experience losing a riding buddy again so, please folks, learn from this one. Thanks, Murrae and CJ, your presence at this ride made it better for me and everyone else. Your efforts on Daryl's behalf were heroic. I enjoyed the ride back to Santa Fe with you. Kim | ||
| Viros |
Ferris, I also remember the safety and hard work you put into the Cal Brag ride. You sure know how to put together a good safe ride which is why I don’t want to miss Octoberfast. I will also bring you a Cal brag ride CD with pics of your ride. -Victor | ||
| Jon |
I read some of the posts, not all, but I am stricken with the weight of what has happened. The fact that it didn't have to happen adds weight. Ghostrider or CJ, You said it, brother. And your post stands a sober testimony about wrong riding behavior. They did it to themselves. I am truly sorry for you guys who had to experience this. And the family members who lost a loved one. | ||
| Ferris |
thank you Victor, thank you so much. i love this sport, and the people involved. we're very much looking forward to this weekend. Ferris & Denise | ||
| Viros |
In Daryl and Jims defense, nobody really knows if they just picked dangerous spots to pass, or went/forced to turn wide. Based on their riding behavior we are all assuming they were trying to pass. HOWEVER, had both been riding slower and more carefully both accidents could of been easily avoided, and we all know when we go down we at least feel a little better blaming something else (gravel, deer, etc) than ourselves. | ||
| Jim_witt |
For those of you that missed the Torque Fest and haven't read the message threads about it in Storm Fronts check this out. -JW:>  | ||
| M2me |
I am so sick and tired of hearing people saying "ride to the edge"! When I ride I am so far from the edge I'm in a different time zone. Go ahead, call me names. Call me a "pussy" or a "wimp" I don't care! I plan on living and riding tomorrow. If anybody wants to ride to the edge, they should do it at the track. They won't have to worry about trucks towing campers in the opposite lane or guard rails. Yeah, he died doing what he loved...riding like a jackass. I'm sorry if this sounds mean-spirited, it isn't meant to be. Everybody, please be careful out there. | ||
| Thad |
The return trip down 87 was just a leisurely cruise. The worst thing that happened to me there was my face shield kept blowing up when I would turn my head to make sure the lane was clear before changing. Just started but only above 70mph. Kinda unnerving the fist time, then just annoying after that. I rode to Chandler HD as they were having an event last weekend also. Radio station van was there broadcasting and they had free food and stuff. I got quite a few looks from the HD types when I pulled up there in all my gear and backpack on my bug splattered Buell. Seemed like they thought I wasn't supposed to be there but nobody wanted to say it. Got home about 2pm. 746 miles since Friday.  The wife made this for me. | ||
| Jim_witt |
This was posted by Carole on ATC. My name is Carole Chase, I am Daryl Levesques girlfriend. Myself and the children, Alicia 15, Shawn 13, and Becca 12 want to express our sincere thanks to all of you who have contacted us with your kindness and support over our recent loss. As any of you know who ever met Daryl he was a fun loving, kind and generous person. He would go out of his way to make sure everyone was OK and happy. Daryl just recently bought me a Blast so we could ride together. Sadly, we never had a chance to. Daryl met alot of people on the road, he always had stories to tell me about them and the rides they took, he was so full of life and loved riding. He especially loved his Buells. He was doing what he loved to do and I am sure he is smiling still. I am also sure that all of us who Daryl touched have a guardian angel on our shoulders who will watch out for us out there. I don't think I really understand what happened on Saturday, I know Daryls abilities and I am shocked that this happened. The local Harley Davidson Dealership has set up a memorial foundation in Daryl's name. If anyone would like to contribute to his memory please forward them to: Motorcycle safety/Daryl Levesque C/O Meredith Harley Davidson/Buell 8 Maple Street Meredith, NH 03276 If anyone would like to, please e-mail me at shreca@metrocast.net If anyone was there I would like to talk to them at some point. Again, thank you all so much for your kindness and support. Carole, Alicia, Shawn and Becca | ||
| Bbuell |
OK now for my two cent, the events of this weekend surely sucked and may have been avoided or maybe not. But I can tell you for sure that everyone on this board has rode above there skill level, or over the speed limit, or have taken chances on their bike. Not to mention the ones I see everyday. So maybe you and I just got lucky and others didnt. Yes, maybe this weekend put somethings in perspective. But im not going to judge what other people did or didnt do. I will save the JUDGING TO GOD. and you should to! | ||
| Henrik |
it saddens me to think that there are folks who won't do a group ride out of fear of what's possible. Ferris; gotta say I'm with Jim on this one. During the Rockies riding last year I was plenty happy to be riding towards the rear. In bigger groups that's not always possible. When I choose to ride with others, it's important to me to trust that they won't do anything that will put me in danger - or themselves for that matter. That narrows the choices down considerably. Rocket and I had a bit of a discussion about that last year, where he in choice words expressed his view on my riding style  But the truth of the matter is, that there is no $$ prize at the end of the ride - no gold medal, no umbrella girls, no champagne. Just the fact that every time you park your bike after an "uneventful" ride - that's your prize; you made it back safe with good memories and get to do it again. I love getting together with like-minded MC enthusiasts - but group rides are not for me. My thoughts go out to Jim and Daryl's families. Henrik | ||
| M2me |
Bbuell, Yeah, you're right. Have I ever taken a chance on my bike? Yes I have, probably too many times. Why am I still here? A little skill but mostly luck. You're right. I'll leave the judging to God. | ||
| Jon |
It's not about leaving the judging to God. Nobody said anybody went to hell. We have to judge and make decisions for the future. Let's not be so magnanamous that we can't call a spade a spade. They did it to themselves and there's a lesson in it for those who want to live past our next ride. Get it? | ||
| Dynarider |
Again, some absolutely see nothing wrong with a couple of beers at a stop, maybe even a few tokes, while others see it as totally ill responsible My local HOG chapter goes out of their way to preach the msg of no drinking & riding. Thankfully we have only had 1 fatality in the 5 years I have been active & that was on a run we were making to the state rally. Had a drunk driver pull out into the path of Dottie & she hit him square in the door & was killed instantly. We were in 2 groups & she was in the 2nd group, when we got to wausau & the news was told to the entire group it was a massive shock. I attend a few poker runs every year, the stops are almost always bars. The wife & I either have a soda or lemonade, some of the guys will give us a hard time about being pussies, but thats fine by me. I want to live to a ripe old age & see my grandchildren have children. Folks in a group ride acting as if it is a track day should be pulled aside at the first stop & be told to knock it off or go home. Motorcycle accidents happen, I can speak as someone who has been deeply affected by one as my mom & step-dad were involved in an accident aboard their goldwing 9 years ago. They had a rear tire blowout & the bike hit the ditch & flipped several times. My stepdad survived but my mom was killed. Came home from work & my uncle told me the news, absolute worst day of my life. I do not want my kids to go thru what I did. I dont push it on the street...used to tho. Topics like this one bring up lots of very bad memories. Thankfully nobody else on this southwest deal was killed. I can understand Buell & Brags reluctance to talk about it, but I think a message about it should be in Fuell. Perhaps name the issue in Daryls memorium? All in all group rides really do suck. Too much ego & testosterone flowing at one time. Please everyone, knock it off before we lose anymore. | ||
| M2me |
Jon, Ok, now you're right. I just felt guilty about using the term "jackass". Riding too agressive is just that. Too agressive. I get it. Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. | ||
| Al_lighton |
FYI, Victor's picture of the corner where Daryl died was from the runout on the lower side. Here are two pictures from the corner entry. Tough to see, but there were some small rocks in the road just ahead of where the collision occurred that MAY have been a factor, but that is just speculation on my part. We've all done harder corners. It wasn't the corner, but rather was the collision, that caused the accident to be as bad as it was.   edited by al_lighton on October 08, 2003 | ||
| Jim_witt |
Any of you Arizona riders ever seen those white crosses on the highways? There's a butt-load of them everywhere if you're looking for them. I wonder "where" you get them ... flower shop? I want to have one made up for Daryl and put it where the crash happened. I saw a pretty cool one on my way up to Pine several times that has a real small brass Harley on top of the cross. Seems like the proper thing to do. -JW: | ||
| Jon |
Dyna, Thank you for your post. | ||
| Ferris |
All in all group rides really do suck. some do, perhaps, but not all of them. a group ride does not guarantee that people ride over their head. i agree that a group ride increases the potential risk (and increases the workload on the organizers), especially if the group is on sportbikes, but i disagree that getting a group of sportbike riders together and turning them loose in the hills means that automatically there will be the kind of behavior that would keep the likes of Court, Jim Witt, Henrik, and others away. as i've stated above, it seems a shame to throw a blanket condemnation on an aspect of our sport that can be as much fun and full of good memories as a SPLASH, Border Raid, or Blue Groove. all that said, i respect everyone's opinions, and this isn't about taking sides. we all should ride our own ride, whatever that may mean to the individual. When I ride I am so far from the edge I'm in a different time zone. reminds me of a comment made to me during a group ride i organized some years back, from Washington to California for the second Blue Groove i believe it was. at dinner that night one of the boys, a fairly inexperienced rider as it turned out, said to me, "Man, Ferris, you were riding right on the edge today!" i laughed at first, but he was serious. i was two-up on the BLURR on this trip, and we HAD been burnin' the roads (when appropriate) as the day progressed, but at no time was i even within a hundred yards of MY edge. apparently, however, we had been right on the edge of HIS edge. this experience, and others, have made me a better ride organizer. i've still got a ways to go, and we all know that riding, even by yourself, is inherently dangerous. this thread is a positive result of something horrible, and the discussion we're having, whether any of us fully agree on what constitutes a "successful" riding experience, will make ALL of us better riders. i hope there is peace to be found for everyone touched by this tragedy. FB | ||
| Choptop |
not too many guard rails at yer local track. Streets are for conservative riding. Tracks are for pushing your abilities. I doubt either rider would have been even injured if they made the same mistakes while at a track day. My good thoughts (sending good juju) to the families and the injured. | ||
| Daves |
Well even though"Ride to the edge" is part of almost all of my posts(and some are sick of hearing it) I ride pretty conservative on public roads. Track days, and lots of them have helped considerably with this for me. Just one example, I grind the pucks in almost every corner on the track but have yet to do it even once on a public road. Could I? Yes. Do I? NO. We have had many BRAG group rides every year for the last 4 summers, I am the director and ride leader of our group. We have had 1 and only 1 accident in 4 years(yes, it was me). I am pretty proud of that record and plan to keep it that way. Rules of our rides, NO DRINKING!! Don't pass the leader No need to ride over your head because we have a taildragger to make sure no one gets left behind or lost. We take lots of breaks No passing in corners This is not a race! If you want to race, come to the track with us. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Bomber |
I've buried many firends and co-riders over the years . . .. . the vast majority of them were involved in accidents that had alcohol or other substances designed to alter a state of consciousness . . . . While I am not aginst drinking, nor other substances, I no longer ride with anything in my bloodstream that is stronger than caffine . . . I no longer ride with others than partake during riding . . . I have to agree with Dyna on tis one . . . anyone who things these things don't impair your judgment is wrong . . . .not preaching, just stating the case . . .. . I've found myself less and less comfortable riding with large groups, and realize that my most enjoyable rides are with 2 or 3 other riders with similar skills or comfort zones . . . . if I don't know that you're straight and sober (at that moment, what you do after the ride is entirely your business), I don't want to ride with you . . .. . again, not preaching, goodness knows I am in no position to do so, and I wasn't at Torquefest, but the attitude of some towards alcohol, pot, and who knows what else mixed with riding (especially on challenging roads) baffles me . . . | ||
| Mikej |
"I have tried to find out what happened to this guy but the ER and hospital won't tell me anything. " That would be thanks to the HIPPA regulations. If you're not on a patient's call list they won't tell you anything. It's worse than that too, if a family member is missing and you start calling around to hospitals looking for them the person could be laying on a gurney right next to the phone and the hospital staff still wouldn't be allowed to tell you anything. Thinking about this, in addition to a donor card if one chooses to do so, one should also probably include a note stating to allow inquiries from people that you are in the hospital. Food for thought. ===== "i laughed at first, but he was serious. i was two-up on the BLURR on this trip, and we HAD been burnin' the roads (when appropriate) as the day progressed, but at no time was i even within a hundred yards of MY edge. apparently, however, we had been right on the edge of HIS edge. " Key point in group leadership, you will always have a range of abilities, and even if you break a group up into smaller groups by ability you will still have a range of abilities and equipment and a whole slew of other variables to consider. I think Ferris has a good grasp on this aspect and he doesn't seem to let any ego get in the way of adjusting the ride as needed to accomodate the current makeup/demographics of the group. | ||
| Court |
May be an odd place to add this but I always keep laminated EMERGENCY cards on my bike. One on top of the tank bag - obvious place One affixed to the SIDE OF THE SWINGARM - bikes never fall over stadning upright. One on TOP OF MY HELMET. Blood type Allergies Contact info | ||
| Nevco1 |
Am really saddened to learn of the recent incidents and wish to extend my condolences to all. What I find interesting is the manner in which all are dealing with them. All very constructive comments regardless of perspective and I believe a lot of good will come from these unfortunate events. Even if they result in just a simple self analysis of skill, mortality and priorities in our respective lives, all will benefit from these tragic events. God Bless. | ||
| Bomber |
My Schuberth Helmet has a little see-through plastic pocket mounted to the side with a Red Cross logo visable . . .. inside is a tri-fold (little) piece of paper for the same data . . . . . | ||
| Ferris |
Mike, i've got the biggest ego in the world, with a mouth to match, and an aging brain that struggles to keep pace with both, which has all been my downfall on many occasions. i appreciate your words, but i don't want to imply that i have all this stuff figured out. organizing a group ride, particularly a large one that covers a lot of ground, is a TON of work, and there is no way to eliminate all the inherent risk. but there ARE ways to make group rides safer, and there ARE ways to keep the issue of rider and bystander safety on everyone's minds. this, of course, doesn't guarantee anything, it just stacks the odds a little more in our favor. i've been lucky. Court nailed it when he said that a LOT of what we do boils down to luck. i came an eyelash away from losing a good friend earlier this year on a ride that i had a small hand in organizing. the crash ripped his XB into several pieces, and the fact that a broken ankle was pretty much the extent of the injuries had NOTHING to do with any skill or good judgement on my part, and had EVERYTHING to do with luck (and, perhaps, a little Divine Intervention). this particular friend of mine will be riding on OktoberFAST this weekend (come to think of it, this gig was HIS idea :-), and i'm betting he'll have something to say at our pre-ride safety meeting this Saturday morning. this is a great sport, folks. we're all lucky to be involved in it, regardless of our individual comfort levels and points of view. ride to lean, FB | ||
| Ghostrider |
BTW, I’m NOT knocking the events whatsoever but they aren’t organized properly from a ridding and carving safety aspect. That being the case, you won’t find me participating. Well, Murrae and I were talking about that, and I've noticed some others mention it here. For us, the argument was between "Self-guided" rides such as Torque Fest and "Guided" rides such as Murrae and I were on in Taos in August. Dave's comments confirm what we felt. There should be a ride leader (or more than one based on skill, route, etc.) who sets the pace. The pace should be reasonable but still invigorating. If you need to go faster, just hang back and play catch up. There should be a trailer, someone to follow as the absolute last bike and ensure that all riders are accounted for. We wouldn't want to leave anyone behind. It would also be nice to have a chase vehicle, maybe with a trailer to tow broken or downed bikes. Our ride in Taos was sponsored by Chick's HD/Buell in Albuquerque. Chick was the lead rider and he made it clear that he wasn't to be passed. I felt that was a very smart way to organize the ride. He had a staff member riding trailer and another mechanic in a chase vehicle. The ride was very fun, everyone had a good time and pushed toward their edge, and nobody went down. It was a lot of fun and one of the reasons that I went to Torque Fest. Again, it's good to see the productive discussion here. Be Safe Out There. | ||
| Court |
>>>My Schuberth Helmet has a little see-through plastic pocket mounted to the side with a Red Cross logo visable . . .. inside is a tri-fold (little) piece of paper for the same data . . . . . If anybody wants one of these, drop me a note with your address.  | ||
| Ferris |
Our ride in Taos was sponsored by Chick's HD/Buell in Albuquerque. Chick was the lead rider and he made it clear that he wasn't to be passed. I felt that was a very smart way to organize the ride. i was lucky enough to attend a large BRAG ride in Taos and beyond in late '99. Chick led and set the pace, Erik was his wingman, and we all had a blast. and nobody went down. and nobody (except, occasionally, for me) complained about the pace. i'm just joking (well, a little...) about the last part. the point is, Chick did a SUPERB job that weekend of increasing everyone's odds of still being a rider at the end of each day, and EVERYONE had a great time. it CAN be done. and it CAN be fun. FB |
