| Author | Message | ||
     Regkittrelle |
...or at least it would appear to be the case given the recurring subtext hereabouts. I contribute/lurk only occassionally, and concern myself with only a few of this board's topic. While I don't concur with the significant Nanny Factor in play I do respect the effort that Blake has put forth. As to that NF, nobody is forcing me to be here, so if I don't like it, I can leave. I like Buells. In particular, the Ulysses. Over the years Buell The Company has exhibited all the traits that have made this country great: Brilliance peppered with bonehead decisions. I do believe Buells to be unique in the single-track world. I do not believe they're the best bikes out there. (On the other hand, I don't know that ANY bike is the best.)If you're enjoying your Buell.. great, I'm happy for you. Personally, the only one I'd own would be the Big U. And the reason for that is because it comes closer to matching its own hype. The 1125? Interesting, and frought with the aforementioned brilliance an boneheadedness. Given time and an infusion of cash it indeed could be world-class. (...and I'm not convinced that either will be forthcoming.)Is it a better motorcycle than I am a rider? Certainly. The "Fan Boy" aspect around here comes close to gagging me at times. Again, I can always leave. But I need to ask some of you: Did your life run off with another man? I ride a Harley and a Ducati... love 'em both! I also have an S1 that is coming back to life. I'm an old guy with 44 years of riding experience under my butt. OK, I've given you enough ammo for rebuttal; now to my point... Lacking anything intelligent to add off times contributors resort to that handy whipping boy Harley-Davidson. It might reference the company, the dealer, or the rider, but all are unfair game for the experience-challenged. Why is this? | ||
| Buelliedan |
knowing the person who posted this all I can say is ouch!! | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Reg, This is a Buell enthusiast site. What do you expect? All I can say is that if it wern't for my Harley I would be walking. Frequently. I'm currently waiting on back - ordered Uly parts.  | ||
| Odinbueller |
Hey Reg! I know that I can get a bit sappy when talking about Buell, so if I've made your lunch reappear, my apologies  I'd just contribute it to enthusiasm. I do agree with you on the opinion of Harley-Davidson around this board. Many have conveniently forgotten that if Harley-Davidson hadn't partnered with Erik on those initial 50 XR1000 motors way back in the day, there may not have been a Buell Motorcycle. Knowing Erik, I think he would have found another avenue to pursue his dream, but we probably would be looking at a different machine today. I think it's just the difference in culture that a lot of BadWeb folk latch on to regarding Harley-Davidson. Also, many have been burned by bad dealer experiences, so I guess that's prevalent in their minds when speaking ill of Harley-Davidson. The funny thing is, when comments are made about the "Harley Rider", with his leather vests and chaps and all, you should hear what they say about us (myself included) when we gear up for a ride. The only thing I can come up with is the vast personality difference between sportbike riders and cruiser riders is the answer, with a helping of bad dealership experiences thrown in to boot. | ||
| Mbsween |
Reg, take some of the brown acid this morning? I think people like to have a scapegoat and Harley just happens to be a convenient one. I ride kawasaki's and always wanted a Ducati 900ss, but then the Buell came along. I used to explain it as a Ducati frame with 1/4 of a 327 chevy for the motor. I'm thinking that most people who come to the Buell fold have at least a couple odd duck genes. I don't really care for Harleys, nice bikes, but I could never understand why you'd want to ride a bike that makes cornering more difficult. That said most of the US seems to prefer that style of bike. That all of the big 4 make a bike that is basically a harley knock-off is amazing. Hell even Ducati made the Indiana! 4 companies that more or less own the industry can't beat an old dog who relies on 40+ yr old technology. And if you believe TV reflects life we all ride cruisers (with the occasional stunt bike thrown in) Harley's economic might shows that the management team knows what they're doing fiscally. Yeah they can't grow forever, even though most people seem to think that's possible. Ask Dell and VMware how long that 50% growth per quarter goes. So you've got a company who has survived economic plights that would've killed Indiana Jones, is copied by the best and brightest, and is still going strong 20+ years after near implosion. And their bikes are probably still the most lusted after bikes around. Personally I think harley's suck, buts thats just my opinion | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Good answers, all. I certainly have no problem with enthusiasm. What the hell, were I not enthusiastic 'bout motorcycles my life would have been totally different and a lot less exciting. There is, though, a difference between enthusiasm and... and some of the stuff I've read here. And I don't believe in any substantive difference between cruiser an sportbike riders... I know too many people who own and enjoy both. That many don't own both has more to do with economics than desire. For me, understanding the strengths and limitations of each is the first step in getting rid of the mc bias that pervades. My current Harley ride is an '08 Road Glide. (There is a feature article in the current American Rider magazine on my bike) This is my third 'Glide. I've outfitted it for the Long Haul. If you know how to ride an FL properly it can even be quite satisfying on a mountain road. With their new Brembos the FLs have gained a giant step up on swift touring. The frame can still be a bit flexi above the ton mark, but even that is manageable. The point here is that it's fun to ride if you ride where IT'S fun. My Ducati is a MultiStrada; this is a fantastic all-around motorcycle that is far superior to the 'Glide on a tight mountain road or a track. This makes it a better motorcycle in those venues. But, when I leave Reno and head for, let's say, Wendover, I'll take the 'Glide with it's XM radio, comfort and 45 mpg. Matt raises salient points re Harley's background, but I'd never buy a motorcycles based on a company's history: I want to know what it can do for me with today's products. All too often when I question a sportbike riders criticism of a Harley I'll ask if they've ridden a new one; usually they haven't. Conversely, I'll question the Harley loyalist re their disdain for sportbikes. Their answers usually fall in a couple of categories; 1) too fast for me, 2) I don't fit and 3)the randon xenophobic. Interestingly, Harley riders are generally more tolerant of sportbike than the reverse. | ||
| Ebear |
So Reg...... What's your take on HD's newest venture , buying MV/Cagiva ? Do you think this may promote the Buell Boutique store idea? .............(From a curious fan)........... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There is always a healthy animosity between Harley people and sport bike people. Ridiculous? Yes. Real? Absolutely. Some of this animosity has been experienced by Harley people in the same place where Buells are sold and serviced. I think we should start another "wave or not wave" thread.  | ||
| Crusty |
Harley's Suck! And Squeeze! And Bang! And Blow! | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Ya know, Eric, this is a very interesting move. It's full ramifications are probably still a bit of a mystery to Harley. First off, I think it a good move. H-D's european growth has been excellent (as opposed to its current flat progress domestically). As a global company Harley is going to respond to the needs of the marketplace, regardless of where it might be. They see Europe, China and India as having a huge potential for future growth. For the moment, existing laws (China) and tax structure (India) are stalling that growth. Europe, however, is ready, willing and able to handle it. However, appropriate dealers, distribution issues, and infrastructure are lagging behind the demand. By acquiring MV Harley has instantly (or at least, quicker) gone a long way towards solving those problems. There is also the issue of manufacturing. If the major markets are overseas, it only makes sense to build overseas. Whereas our Harley faithfull would throw a hissy fit if the bikes were manufactured in India, the rest of the world would not be as concerned. BTW: It might, emphasize "might"' not be too long before Brazilian-built Harleys are trickled into domestic dealers... might be a single, slow-selling model just a a toe in the water. As an aside... The $109M +debt that H-D paid for MV is not a lot of money and is reflective of just how small MV is. Harley hasn't purchased them for the few bucks those sales represent. An important aspect of this is that the Europeans are not as brand-centric as are we in this country. That is, they largely appreciate a motorcycle for what it is and can do, rather than for what it represents. A good example of this is the V-Rod. This is an excellent motorcycle that Europe has embraced and the US buying public largely erased. Yes, exceptions to this are readily evident... I'm speaking very general. This is important because they will more readily accept a multi-brand dealership, i.e. MV/Cagiva/H-D. A very prophetic example of the way the world is going is the recent introduction of the XR1200. You know, of course, that it is all the rage in Europe. Did you also know it's been introduced in Africa? (Another possible emerging market). Think about this: The newest Harley-Davidson goes to Africa before it comes to stateside dealers. There is strong noise that we WILL see the bike here this year, but the dealers had to force the issue. As re stateside MV/Cagiva dealers (uh... both of them... jes' kiddin'). I don't think you'll see much change. I can't see Harley placing the brand in current H-D dealerships, and putting Harleys in MV houses uh, no. Buell might ought to be getting a little nervous, however. The company has been largely kneecapped by Harley's refusal to loosen the purse strings. Buell's current problems are an echo of what I and others wrote about a decade ago: little P&A support, marginal dealers, poor brand recognition. The good news is that the hardware is better than ever. Dealers are bailing, though, because ultimately they are business, and a business must make money. I believe it makes a lot of sense to combine the MV/Cagiva and Buell franchises IF, price points can be competively set, e.g. Buell prices need to come down. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
If I could have more bikes in the garage, I would. Luckily I work at the dealership and get to demo all the bikes and experience all the types of models that Harley & Buell build. At the end of the day I wouldnt trade my CityX or XL883R for anything in the store. Now I might add that new XR1200 when she comes out, but a dedicated passenger might have me looking at a FatBob. Its a different hammer for a different job. A Sledge, standard, ball peen... grab your favorite one and pound away. Ive had 13 different bikes, only the last two are from Wisconsin. Two wheels is two wheels, everything else is just walking or commuting in your SUV Elephant. Still no chaps, leather, tattoos or ponytail. But stereotypes are fun arent they  | ||
| Regkittrelle |
FB... "healthy?" as in good, or "healthy" as in a growing amount? | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Brian, "Its a different hammer for a different job." That's great line... I'll probably steal it from you. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Healthy as in robust. A greater sportbike affiliation with HD, to me, is a good thing. I've often fantasized about HD regaining a healthy (robust) sense of competition not just in sales. Imagine a consolidation of MV Augusta, Buell, and Ducati under the resource umbrella of Harley Davidson. All we need is for Harley to be "switched on, baby!"  | ||
| Slaughter |
Y'know... I'd never cared for the IMAGE as put out by HD. Chrome, leather, flames, skulls, the "I'm baaad," "I'm a lone-wolf" (add all the other cliche's you want) It just turns me off - and the HD showroom does nothing for me... but then, I'd never been in their target demographic - except maybe age. My frustration with HD however comes largely FROM my past relationships with dealers... (another long post some other time) and their attitude toward Buells and "OTHER" bikes (read: Japanese). Sunny and I have a couple XB-based racebikes, an S3 streetbike. She has a couple VF500's (1 street, 1 track), a XT225 dual-sport, I have a DRZ400s dual sport. I sold the SV since I wasn't enthused about racing it that much anymore. IF we bought another Buell, it'd be a Uly - especially after renting one from Hals for 5 days... but we really NEVER sell any of our motorcycles and therefore don't have a pressing need to add one more to the stable. We NEVER ride 2-up - with rare exceptions such as Homecoming on the rental. I don't have anything really against the HD machinery (just that it's not for me/my interests), my negative opinion is just tied to the image being marketed and being picked up and run with by so many customers. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Maybe we will get some of the Aermacchi type models back The Topper, The 250 Sprint, The SX250/350/500... You know the stuff Harley would never build | ||
| Kyrocket |
Ft Bstrd it's funny you should bring up the "to wave or not to wave" conversation. I had the good luck to meet a few people who hang out on this board some today. We had three tubers in one spot and believe it or not that was the most I've ever seen in one place outside the dealership years ago. Anyway, I'm a "as long as your knees are in the breeze" type rider. It doesn't matter what you're riding or what you're wearing as long as your riding and not doing it nekked, unless of course you're at an Easyrider Rodeo then all bets are off. So I peeled off from the group a little early and was coming home up a back road and caught up to a Harley cruiser and could tell he didn't want me back there. Wasn't crowding or anything, we were both stuck behind a car. Well he proceeds to pass in a blind curve to get away from me and I pass later once the road straightens out and catch back up when he gets behind another car. We were moving pretty slow and I catch a glimpse of him in the mirror and I know the dude, ridden with him a few times and our jobs cross paths a few times each month so I decide to make him real uncomfortable just for poops and snickers. I've got my full face on with a tinted visor and pull up next to him and he won't even acknowledge me and I flip up the front of the helmet and he looks over and realized it was me and it was all good but I think it just goes to show it's not all us. Lots of people have their preconceived notions about how another brand or style of biker rides or acts. I'd be willing to bet a dime to a doughnut he saw a sport bike pulling up in his rearview and was waiting for a little squid action. In my opinion, for what it's worth, we all know it's just not bikes, this is a bike forum so that's what gets discussed. I drive a Toyota and have three kids and someone may say a Chevy and two kids are better, but they'd be wrong just saying you're going to get an argument or opposing viewpoint no matter what you put on here, unless maybe it's Valerie Bertanelli is still smokin' hot. If you don't think so YOUR'RE WRONG! Hahahaha | ||
| Cochise |
Only thing I don't like about SOME Harley guys, is the ones that think if they buy a Harley, they are instantly Billy Bad A**. | ||
| Chellem |
I think the problem with this stereotype - as with any - is that they're LOOSELY based on truth, and it's easy on any given day to find an example or two that will support the stereotype. There ARE sport bike riders out there who are nutjobs, whose antics ruin it for the rest of us by supporting the stereotype. There ARE Harley/Biker style riders who act like asses. Or embrace the biker-style a LITTLE too much. Although it's the posers on both sides that bother me. If you're really a biker, and really live the lifestyle, fine. But don't try to be something you're not. Actually, that goes for sport bike riders too. (Actually, that should go for most of the world. Wouldn't it be a better place if people didn't have to work so hard to maintain some image?) But for the most part, riders are riders. And I hope, when it comes down to "us and them" meaning motorcycles vs. cagers - we'll all come down together. So to speak. ->ChelleM | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Why is this?" If someone hates Harley's and uses this forum to express it, I could not care less. I certainly don't feel any negative symptoms of being exposed to it on this forum, and my opinion of the Company has not been swayed. Why do you care so much about what these people (most of whom you do not know or will probably ever meet) think? Even if it's wrong, let people be wrong. Getting worked up about something you have no control or influence over says more about you than you realize. Just my opinion, if course. But if you don't like it or agree with it, it doesn't bother me. I am not going to get worked up about it. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
I don't think "worked up" properly reflects my feelings, Dan; curious is more like it. And as for caring what these people think... I do care insofar as it effects a sport that I truly love. At the same time, I don't lose sleep over it, nor do I feel any "negative symptoms." In fact, it's the opposite as I enjoy a good discussion as I always learn something. Actually, I agree with you re letting people be "wrong." (Not sure that right or wrong belongs here, tho). | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Slaughter... We're tracking along the same line re the "image." There is a truly badass Harley segment which I can now avoid. Curiously, while I don't buy into their activities, if pressed I might admit to having more respect for them (given that they are true to what they are) than I do for the Instant ••••••• that magically appears after purchase. | ||
| Smoke |
come on DJ, you can get worked up, it's ok. how ya doin? tim | ||
| Djkaplan |
Doing good, Tim. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What's funny is how few true "bad asses" there are in the "biker" world and how many pretenders there are. Most Harley folks are more like my accountant, stock broker, and dentist than Marlon Brando. It's all become an odd caricature of itself like a ready made antique or brand new rat rod. I feel the same about all the wanna be Woodstock events. There was only one Woodstock. Everything else is only a pale facsimile. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I'm a badass. I just look and act meek all the time because I never get worked up about anything. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I gained a lot of respect for Harleys after buying my first Buell (the M2). The motor was impressive in many regards. It opened my eyes to the fact that Harleys are not just popular motorcycles, they are very good motorcycles. Do you really think the price of the Buells have to drop? My XB9SX was what, $7800 brand new? Thats about $2k more then an SV-650, but having ridden several SV's in different circumstances (and continents), I think my 9sx is easily $2k nicer. Maybe the 12's should be priced like the 9's though. Not many good reasons they should be that much more expensive. And I think the Uly compares *very* well to a GS when you compare price, kind of an inversion of the SV-650 and XB9SX... the GS is worth the big $$$, but for the price, the Uly is very fairly placed as well. The 1125 is a bit of a wildcard, but it seems to be priced well relative to the closest aspirational-exotic in it's class, the 1098. In fact, after the first year, the 1125 may mop up the 1098 in every category except "how red it is". MV brings a couple of nice "import boilerplate" bikes into the Harley family, and did so a lot cheaper then trying to start from scratch. It could be a good synergy if played right, or could be totally screwed up. | ||
| Chellem |
I'll tell you, there's not much more entertaining than watching a weekend "badass" meeting up with the real thing at a bar or a party. Now THAT'S entertainment. ->ChelleM | ||
| Rfischer |
Folks love their stereotypes - either to live them or bash them. It's human nature. Moreover, most stereotypes have some basis in fact....that's how they got to be stereotypes. For example, how 'bout the stereotypical Italian business[man] that is prolifagate and fiscally irresponsible and/or inept, albeit with artistic or engineering genius. Anybody who has done business with Italians will be familiar with the stereotype. Is it fair or generally accurate? Probably not, but H-D has just taken advantage of it in the person of Cagiva/MV Agusta. BMW ditto last year with its acquisition of Husqvarna. Claudio Castiglioni IS the stereotype. At the end of the day, we are all a stereotypes of some color or stripe; we are for the most part a herd animal that is inclined to behave in accordance with our particular clan norms and expectations. And we are ego- and ethnic-centric so will always take swipes at other clans' norms. So endeth today's sermon on sociology and bikers/squids. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
FB.. You remind me. This weekend is the annual "Hollister" event... Vendorfest, actually.(It's about 40 miles from my home) A lot of the ersatz BAs draw their image from the original happening in '47. By all accounts the dust-up was relatively minor. Right up, that is, until Life magazine posed that infamous pix and wrote the article. Suddenly the nothing-that-was became a seminal biker event, caused "The Wild One" to be made, and spiked the sale of black leather jackets for decades to come. Methinks it quite appropriate that the Ersatz M.C. embraces Hollister because, to recap: It was a fake event memorialized by a posed photo, given historical status by a fiction movie starred in by an actor, with very little motorcycle cred, riding a Triumph. |
