| Author | Message | ||
     Jramsey |
I've been in the metal working trade going on 40 years and it amazes me the misuse of the term "billet" by the after market parts manufacturers. Billet is the term used to describe the material in its first stages of a hot rolling process. The billets are heated then run through the first of several sets of rolls. Before the billet was a billet it was a 'bloom" and before that it was a "cast ingot." Billet is the material form in an intermediate step in the rolling process. Making parts from "true billet" would result in a substandard item compared to material thats been fully processed and heat treated and besides the rolling mills won't sell it to the metal suppliers non finished. I believe it got started years ago as a hot-rodders term that was applied to parts machined to a detailed shape from a piece of solid stock. It really cracks me up when someone comes in my shop and wants a part made for their car or bike and "demands" that it be made from "billet" and not bar stock. End of rant, the next will be the term "CNC'ed." | ||
| Xl1200r |
Yeah, but billet sounds cooler than bar stock. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It's all Boyd Coddington's fault. | ||
| Tramp |
I agree, but these breadths of definition expand with popular useage. Much like air/oil-cooled BMW engines are not "opposed twins", etc. The 21st c. fad-chopper world is ripe misapplied terminology. "Soft-tail", itself, before HD "trademarked" it in the late '80s, meant a rigid rear with small plunger springs, as featured on Amen saviour frames, etc. Don't get me started, as misneology abounds in the 21st. c. motorcycle world.... | ||
| Diablobrian |
sure F_B, blame the dead. Kind of like whenever someone leaves a job, everything that goes wrong for the next six months (or more) happened because of something that he/she did or didn't do.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"It's all Boyd Coddington's fault." And Chip Foose and the Tuttels. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on June 23, 2008) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I give Chip a pass. He doesn't seem to be quite the ass bag that Coddington was and the Teutels are. | ||
| Jaimec |
Tramp, I think what you meant was that air/oil cooled BMWs aren't "Airheads." I'm not aware of anyone who argues that they're not opposed twins... that'd be just stupid because anyone could look at the engine and see the cylinders are opposed! Of course, maybe they're confused and mean "WATER COOLED" BMWs aren't "opposed twins" and then they'd be 100% correct... | ||
| Slaughter |
Aircraft engine designations: O = Opposed R = Radial V = "V" configuration Boxer is actually pretty accurate. Junkers Jumo was a true horizontally opposed diesel - two "bottom ends" and a common combustion chamber in which both pistons compress: .jpg) | ||
| Tramp |
jamieC: Thanks, but as a BMW T2, I know the difference. and, despite your claim of 'stupidity' in thinking that a BMW boxer engine isn't truly "opposed". news flash: it isn't. It's a flat-V. Ask any Navy mech. about that one. be carefule and do your research before you throw around words like "stupid" to describe a condition of which you're unaware...somebody (not necessarily me) might refer to that as "ignorant" A BMW boxer is a flat twin, as it has two combustion chambers per bottom end, as opposed to vice-versa. Also- neither the bore-line nor the stroke (If you wanted to stretch the definition to suit a beemer) is actually "opposed". You think I wasted all that time at BMW tech school for the great chow? another case of modern usage bending a definition. | ||
| Jaimec |
OH DEAR GOD WE'RE SPLITTING HAIRS AGAIN!  And I guess the letter "I" is really the letter "L" only straight??? Since Harley engines are V-Shaped, but the rods are inline with one another, it's really NOT a V-Twin but an opposed twin that's bent in half?? (Message edited by jaimec on June 23, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
jamie- Colour it however you like, but Billet means Billet, and opposed twin means opposed twin. No need to say that it's 'stupid" to recognize the correct terminology, is there? This isn't splitting of hairs, it's a spot-on exampling of a usage-based mislogism, analogous to that of "Billet". True opposed engines share a cylinder, simply ask any navy mech., again. A boxer, using two discrete cylinders, is a "flat twin" | ||
| Tramp |
Jaimec- You need to understand the primacy/recency of these semantics. The "V-Twin" config. actually predates that of the flat-twin. In fact, if we were truly splitting hairs, or, at worst, actually being concise- a BMW boxer is a Flat-V, technically speaking. | ||
| Bill0351 |
bil·let [ bíllit ] (plural bil·lets) noun Definition: 1. chunk of wood: a short thick piece of wood, especially firewood 2. metallurgy metal bar in semifinished state: a metal bar or block with a simple shape that requires further working 3. architecture part of decorative molding: one of a series of short, evenly spaced blocks or cylinders forming part of a decorative molding [15th century. < Old French billette "small log" < bille "log"] Maybe I will go with the first definition and start a new trend by having my Cyclone decorated with carefully placed pieces of firewood. I did like the first part of the next definition though. Bill (Billet: pretentious word for "lump of metal," used by machinists and marketeers to confuse outsiders.) That piece of metal might have been cast, forged, or rolled (squeezed between rollers, sort of a limited forging, only capable of making flat things with straight grain like a board)." | ||
| Tramp |
jamieC- please understand that i'm typing this with a beneficent grin... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Slaughter- I wonder who was first with the true "opposed" engines? Fairbanks-Morse employed the same arrangement in the U.S. They were popular on submarines and used in some diesel locomotives in the 1950's. | ||
| Tramp |
Messerschmitt ooops- hughlysees was asking slaughter... | ||
| Igneroid |
The "correct" way to use the word "BILLET" if you're Ukrainian... "Im don't be havet enuff money for kubasa. Im take it now and you billet me...OK??" | ||
| Slaughter |
The common combustion chamber - coupled with the extremely high compression for Diesel - and the short stroke required for reliability (and in aircraft, possibly throttle response) - ESPECIALLY compression ignition (no spark/high-energy electrical stuff), seems to have really been pushed in the 20's and 30's in the German hydrogen-filled dirigibles. Fascinating stuff actually - (though I suppose they coulda been cut from Billet) | ||
| Tramp |
Or, as it was termed in the teens: the "Opposed Engine" | ||
| Slaughter |
or... Horizontally Opposed (does anal-retentive have a hyphen?) - and I have an answer to that question as well. | ||
| Tramp |
I think "Horizontally" was added later, in English | ||
| Just_ziptab |
And here I thought this was billet[/list]  | ||
| Tramp |
Only with spent primers, as illustrated ( almost appears that 2 different handguns fired those rounds, could be the lighting) | ||
| Diablobrian |
looks like two different diameter firing pins to me too... | ||
| Blake |
Interesting bit of history/info there Tramp. Thanks for the education. I for one appreciate learning stuff like this. The "flat V" does seem like a very strange way to characterize an engine like the BMW. Whoever coined that nomenclature had to be a bit goofy. "Flat twin" makes more sense to me. One of my pet-peeves is misuse of words. Lately "mad" is being used in place of "angry" a lot, even on news broadcasts and such. "Are you mad?" No, I'm just angry. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Blake |
JRamsey, How do we know that it is the machinists' terminology that is mistaken and not the founders'? billet: 1. A short, thick piece of wood, especially one used as firewood. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
So now that I have learned something, what is the real term for a part machined out of solid block of stock? Is there a simple term? | ||
| Crusty |
Yeah; the word "Billet" is commonly used to describe such an item. | ||
| Igneroid |
Yeah; the word "Billet" is commonly used to describe such an item. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Im dyin here Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha  |
