| Author | Message | ||
     Xb12mel |
Ok, so before I read this, I thought that the $ was so degraded that the cost of oil was up. Maybe that was the plan all along? Some would think that the deferral of this oil is being done to help the American economy. What if our Government is selling it back to the open market at the inflated prices? How long does it take to accumulate the 1 Billion Barrels of oil that we are supposed to have in reserves anyway? By the way, you can find this information here: http://fossil.energy.gov/news/techlines/2008/08019 -DOE_Defers_SPR_Delivery.html Issued on: June 5, 2008 DOE to Defer Strategic Petroleum Reserve RIK Deliveries 2.1 Million Barrels Delayed Until Spring 2009 Washington, D.C. - The U. S. Department of Energy today announced it will defer approximately 2.1 million barrels of royalty-in-kind (RIK) exchange crude oil that had been scheduled for delivery to the nation's Strategic Petroleum Reserve sites (SPR) this summer. The deferred deliveries are part of a royalty-in-kind crude oil exchange that began in January 2008 and were to total approximately 11 million barrels delivered to the SPR through July 2008. The approximately 2.1 million barrels will be deferred for delivery until March-May 2009, after the winter heating season. Deliveries of approximately 2.8 million barrels were not deferred and will continue through July 2008. Shipment of these barrels was already underway and could not be practicably deferred. The deferral action is consistent with recently enacted legislation, the "Strategic Petroleum Reserve Fill Suspension and Consumer Protection Act of 2008," to negotiate deferral of deliveries to the maximum extent practicable, and with the Department of Energy's Procedures for the Acquisition of Petroleum for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The Royalty-in-Kind (RIK) program began in 1999 and continues in accordance with the Energy Policy Act of 2005 which directs the SPR to fill to the capacity of 1 billion barrels. The RIK program has been jointly administered by DOE and the Department of Interior's (DOI) Mineral Management Service to transfer the government's share of petroleum production from federal offshore leases to be exchanged at the market center for crude oil that meets the SPR's quality specifications. The exchange/crude oil is then transferred to the four SPR sites located on the Gulf Coast of Louisiana and Texas. The Strategic Petroleum Reserve currently holds 704 million barrels. - End of Techline | ||
| Miamiuly |
It's already $5.00 in my head. $4.30 last I noticed for premium, might as well be $5. I know the world is using more, China for one, but I have to believe that the speculators are really ••••••• us up too. High dollar gambling for the uber rich. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Should the price of gas be regulated like natural gas and electric? | ||
| Xl1200r |
I don't know how you'd do that since a lot of oil isn't domestic. You ca regulate electricity because it's used and processed here. But try telling the Saudi's that we're only going to allow stations to charge $3/gal so we need to buy it cheaper from them. | ||
| Gtmg |
If you do research there is not a supply and demand issue for gas. We have two issues going on: 1. Speculation is driving up the price just like it did in housing. Depending on who you are talking to it is worth between 40 and 60 cents a gallon at this point in time. 2. There is no real competition for gasoline production. We have consolidated down to basically three companies in the US. The constitutes an oligopoly where there is not really any competition. The oil companies are not paying any for for oil than they did several years ago...they have long term contracts or own the wells. Their costs have not gone up but the price has. We could actually do alot without getting away from gas to lower demand like using paper, glass, aluminum and steal that are recyclable vs plastics but it will never happen, so we will have to convert our tranportation eventually. | ||
| Cowboy |
What happened to the 19 or 20 big oil companys we had a few yrs ago????????not to mention a bunch of small independents. | ||
| Retrittion |
No oversight/regulation for 8-12 years = massive consolidation among corporations. Net result is what we got now, where they take refineries off-line at peak usage times of the year. You add in our country's willingness to allow sub-30 MPG vehicles, no introduction of alternative engines (electric/biofuel), no real movement on mass-transit, etc. I'm not saying anything political, I'm saying that when you let companies influence elections and policy you get results that benefit them, not us. Think about who really benefits when universal health-care, environmental regulations, and windfall taxes are voted down -- and who loses. | ||
| Danger_dave |
It's already $NZ8.50 per gallon here. | ||
| Hootowl |
The oil companies merged in 2000 because oil was $20 a barrel and they were on the brink of bankruptcy. ConnocoPhillips was just denied a permit to expand a refinery to process oils other than light sweet crude into gasoline. Refineries are routinely denied these permits due to lawsuits brought by environmentalists. That's why we haven't built a refinery in decades, not because the refiners don't want to. The rage is being misdirected. Be mad at congress, not the oil companies, they're the ones who won't let us drill for oil within our own borders, or build refineries that can process Canadian tar sands, one of the most abundant sources of oil on the planet. All the US oil companies combined aren't as big as the Saudi state owned oil company, so if you must be mad at "big oil" be mad at Aramco. (Message edited by hootowl on June 17, 2008) | ||
| Hootowl |
and BP was just denied a permit to build a CNG fueling dock to import the gas that the folks in the middle east burn off as waste. So who is to blame for the shortage? People trying to bring in more energy, or the people trying to tie their hands? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Not only has there been merging of oil companies and refiners but also collaboration. Many companies form paper partnerships in the exploration and refining process. It's a garbled mess and I'm not sure anyone knows what is truly going on but I suspect it's been designed that way. MBA's and lawyers sit around all day thinking up new schemes to make money and government regulators play catch-up. In my state, we have electric deregulation and our costs have skyrocketed. Furthermore, no one appears able to explain what in the hell is going on. Personally, I don't know what was wrong with the old system of electric regulation. | ||
| Aesquire |
I agree on the speculation being a major issue. If you were in the business of betting on the price of oil in the future, what would you bet? China & India are growing fast. The rest of the third world wants to catch up. That takes energy. Iran & China signed a big oil deal, paid for by U.S. consumers. Iran is not the most stable place. Across the planet, oil production/transport systems are vulnerable to terrorist action, and there is a jihad going on, whether you want to admit it or not. I'd bet on prices rising too. In fact I did. I've had money down on a new TDI since January. I know that the gas station on the corner has to pay for the NEXT truck load of gas with the profits ( usually 2-3 cents a gallon ) on THIS truck load. Most money made in gas stations is on Beer, soda & cigarettes. I also know that for many stations, it's not some faceless megacorp setting the price, it's the boss reading the signs on the competitions stations on the way in to relieve the night manager. If you sell for more than a few cents less, you get a run, & run out. Then you won't sell beer, etc. & are screwed. Weird, huh? Makes sense to me. Retrittion, nice 'Bolt!. You have a few facts & concepts off though. The regulation issues, both good & bad, are way way older than the last 2 admins. Even before Regan, the idea of consolidation to make massive money for a few top dogs has been a pattern. Oil/wood/beer, whatever. If I preside over a consolidation, I get to take a big chunk of money & run. Since people with big chunks of money have more to bribe politicians, they usually get the rules they want. Enviro-nut regulations, ( some quite good ) have meant that building a new refinery takes a lot of time, ( 7 years for the paperwork alone, per the ex head of Exxon ) and more money than you would believe. Long term, it's a good payoff, but in the time frame used by politicians & money men, not a good deal. That makes it hard to borrow money for something that won't pay for itself in longer than Wall Street likes. Also, when an enviro-nut group announces that they will never stop bringing lawsuits against you to prevent you from building a refinery, you have to consider giving up, and build it in some third world hell hole where you can control the courts. So that's what they do. Sure, you & I can see that we need more energy, but if it doesn't pay off before the next election, politicians don't care. All they care about is re-election so they can keep the power. That's why you get buzz words like "It won't help gas prices today" and "we can't drill our way out of this". As long as they are in charge, who cares about you? You didn't donate. I'm not defending the greedy sob's who run the oil companies. I just want you to know WHY we are not getting new refineries. Other points our country's willingness to allow sub-30 MPG vehicles So, you want to give that much power to them? A lot of nice cars, trucks & Bikes don't get 30mpg. You want Gearge Bush to tell you you can't own a F350? A kaw Vulcan? A 'Vette? No thanks. I'd rather have humans make their own decisions. If you want to mock suburban Walter Mitty's who are living out their midlife crisis with a Hummer, go ahead, but you might really want a Nissan GT-R someday, so don't let the government "allow" you anything. Smart people will buy economical cars. Idiots will buy Hummers. no introduction of alternative engines (electric/biofuel) Enough to make you feel paranoid, that one. You can run your Buell on Chanel #5 if you want. ( well, I can, my Cyclone can wear a alky carb from S&S, if I want to ) I suspect that most bio-fuel/alternatives are more expensive that gas. ( diesel sure is darn it! I still have money down on that TDI ) The E-85 thing may be what you want, I dunno. I can see that making fuel from food is insane. I was all for alcohol, but I thought they'd make it from garbage. Electric cars? GM's 1990's Volt got the same range as a 1908 Edison electric. See Jay Leno's articles in Popular Mechanics. He's owned both. I'm all for electric cars. Can I have a nuclear generator in my basement to recharge it? I'm all for that too. Mass transit only works in very high population density areas with predictable movement patterns. The Boston/D.C. corridor, L.A., etc. Where I am, the bus don't go where I need When I need, so I drive. Besides, it's really expensive, we need something like quick rental 2 seat pod cars we drop off a few blocks from work to be recharged, and pick up another to go home. If it drove itself back to the charging station & came when called to get me to work, perfect! Work on that will you? Think about who really benefits when universal health-care, environmental regulations, and windfall taxes are voted down -- and who loses. 3 things, hmm. Health care voted down? Insurance companies, doctors, most patients, they win, politicians lose. That's my opinion. Is there a socialized system that works BETTER than ours? Enviro regs. When did they get voted down? ( is there a certain law to protect something that didn't pass? ) Clean air, water, good. Forbidding me to drain a wet spot in my yard, bad. Windfall taxes...... Since every single dollar in tax collected by the government comes out of yours & my pocket, how can taking money from any company help anyone but the politician? The company just passes the cost along to the consumer. Always have, always will. It's just a scam to keep you from noticing that you are getting ripped off not just by the company but also by the government. I'm not saying all government controlled entities are bad. Inefficient, yes. But I do appreciate nice roads, a well trained military, etc., and would hate to have to contract with private companies for all my needs. Having Bush, or Obama, in charge of my driving habits, thermostat, freedom of movement, or choice of vehicle is not my idea of a good thing. | ||
| Ducxl |
Here's how i view $4./gal. gas(Soon to be $5.?). I now work 2 miles from home. I now have an offer to program CNC machines' 1/8 mile from home. I'll walk to work! The "village economy" , coming to a town near YOU! (Message edited by ducxl on June 17, 2008) | ||
| Loki |
I will be looking at a house a lot closer to my new employment locale. Granted it is only 15 miles each way now. I am looking to get it under 5 by a good margin. | ||
| Snowscum |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697 167011147 Interesting..... | ||
| Oldog |
Would the shortfall on refineries be considered a national crisis, if so why cant the regs be suspended and the plant built and put into operation with a few simple stipulations, no worse emissions than an existing refinery, design enhancements to permit upgrade and expansion of facility in the future, ongoing review and over site for enviro issues. having worked in Edmonton Can. the Exxon refinery there produced no unusual smells no locals complaining about polution etc. let the bloody treehugers $$#%ing walk. | ||
| Cowboy |
ANS. liberals | ||
| Aldaytona |
Highest prices ever, then as punishment after the fact, it's diluted with ethanol, driving up the price of food as well. I'm thinking a guy with 5 pounds of C4 under his vest walking into an Exxon-Mobil board meeting............................ It works for the guys wearing bedsheets, and it seems to be the only thing that really drives the point home. But seriously, since I don't own a vest and look silly wearing a sheet, I stopped buying Mobil 1 oil and any other products related to Exxon-Mobil. | ||
| Gtmg |
You guys are talking about shortfalls. There is no shortfall. There is not a supply and demand issue. You see anyone running out of oil or gas. This is not a supply and demand issue. The refinery issue is the biggest f'n smokescreen. They don't want to build more refineries so the price can go where.....down. This is strictly a result of no competition and some speculation that has driven up oil prices. Once again there is no shortage of oil. Just like the refinery issue the China/India issue is a huge smokescreen. Now if we had a completely new company talking about drilling for oil and opening a refinery that would be different but we don't. I do agree that the guy selling gas is not the issue it is the big oil companies who are essentially colluding on price. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
You know there was a Party in a Harbor when Tea got out of hand... We get what we tolerate. | ||
| Cowboy |
The ans. is domestic drilling. Look if you have your money in your left pocket and you pay $500.00 a bbl. and then you put the money in your right pocket you still have your money it is not in some foren country, your $$$ become bigger which in the end gasoline becomes cheaper. | ||
| Smitty808 |
Cityxslicker, Tea parties are considered terrorism now! Although that is what we need! Stolen from another site: OPEC sells oil for $136.00 a barrel. OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel. Solution: Sell grain for $136.00 a bushel. Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil. | ||
| Darthane |
How dare you insinuate that we should attempt to balance exports and imports. SHAME! | ||
| Ratbuell |
It really isn't a supply/demand issue. It's a greedy bastard issue. I'm still steamed that those assholes went in front of CONGRESS and couldn't "remember" how much money they personally made in the previous year. F them. If gas really cost what gas cost, I'd be relatively OK with it. The 'record profits' bit is what really pisses me off. And what pisses me off even more is, they're allowed to do it. I know...free market economy and all that...but when your personal profits are widereaching enough to affect an entire nation, somebody needs to step in. Personally, I think Bill Gates is the devil...but at least in making his gazillions, he hasn't made my food more expensive and the dollars in my wallet worth less. There is no excuse. | ||
| Hootowl |
You know, if I went before congress and didn't know EXACTLY how much money I made the year before, including wealth paid in the form of executive compensation (401K matching, profit sharing, etc.) and all the dividends on all the stock I owned, I sure as hell wouldn't have offered up a number. "Lying" under oath to Congress is a big no-no, and you can bet your arse they would have been hammered for it. | ||
| Hootowl |
ExxonMobil has a lower profit margin that the DOW average of 8% It really pisses me off when Congress calls the oil execs on the carpet to explain why there isn't enough oil, and then denies those same companies the ability to explore, drill, and refine domestica energy. Whose fault is it that there isn't enough oil on the market? The folks that want to drill, or the ones that succeed in stopping them? | ||
| Cowboy |
I used to fear the terrorist NOW I fear our present congress. | ||
| Darthane |
...took you long enough. I've feared them since long before I was able to legally drive. >.< | ||
| Neurorider |
Here's another thought: I don't get too upset about gas being expensive, because it is the only thing that will make our market change. I've wanted neat vehicles like the VW Lupo (something like 70mpg IIRC)and the Mercedes A-class for years. They won't import them because our market is perceived as a horsepower market. So, if the car companies don't think it will sell well, they don't import it. I just bought my wife a Mazda5: comes with a 2.3 4-cyl that gets 28mpg. That's good! Best mileage minivan in America. But, what does it get in Europe? a smaller motor that gets 35mpg, and a diesel that gets what, 45mpg? Some of you Badwebbers in other parts of the world know the vehicle as the Premacy and know more about it than I do. Just an example, though-We don't need a new hybrid that costs 5k more, just sell us the stuff the rest of the world gets! anyhow, high gas prices change what people shop for in a vehicle, and that becomes part of the solution in the long run-we adapt. Anybody know more about Shell GTL, making gasoline out of natural gas? I like that idea. They're drilling for natural gas all around me here locally! doc | ||
| Darthane |
Heh...NG to fuel-grade gasoline will just give yet another company a reason to bend you over - utilities. | ||
| Aesquire |
Natural gas prices are going up too. Years back, no one would build a electric plant to run on NG, because it's not as efficient as burning NG in homes & as chemical feed stock. But it's cheaper to make NG boilers clean, so in the last decades NG is in most new electric facilities. Result? rising prices. I want the nuclear car I was told was the 21st century thing. Durn Walter anyhoo. | ||
| Terribletim |
Actually, maybe do some homework and understand how the whole "global oil economy" works. All the oil pulled from the earth goes in the same big "lot". Oil companies buy from that shared pool. What would change the way gas prices inflate would be to stop putting all the oil in the shared pool. Why not leave the oil that's pulled from US land in the US? Can you say "competitive market"? But oh no, it's all in the name of "world trade". Yea right, NAFTA worked so well too.  | ||
| Dfbutler |
All this is great, but I paid over $5 per gallon this weekend in SoCal. I never though gas would cost more than cigarettes and I'm still smoking too. |
