| Author | Message | ||
     Jerry_haughton |
Why should cops need Screaming Eagle pipes so they can pollute the air and make a bunch of noise, an still be relatively underpowered. Scott, your profile says your XB is sporting an aftermarket muffler and race ECM. do you consider these mods to increase your bike's output of air and noise pollution? if so, your words highlighted above sound like hypocrisy. if not, why should you be so militant about the police wanting to have the same beneficial modifications to their motors? If Harley can't make a decent bike for the police job, buy a Japanese bike that will be quiet, fast, and won't pollute. Harley has been making "decent" bikes for the police (and for the rest of us mere mortals) for over 100 years. during this country's history, several hundred domestic motorcycle manufacturers have come and gone (some several times), but ONLY Harley-Davidson remains. there's a reason for that. you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool ALL of the people of this great country for over a century. Then, and only then, will Harley consider making a competitive machine. have you been paying attention to Harley-Davidson's fortunes for the past 20 years or so? their present-day machines are remarkable, especially so considering how conservative they have to be in implenting improvements so as to not lose the Harley "mystique" that has been the cornerstone of their survival and success over the decades. question: do you have any significant seat time on an Evolution-motored or Twin Cam-motored Harley-Davidson to lend credence to your negative opinion of their machines? i do, and my opinion is that your opinion is grossly in error. Just like autos, if we kept buying pieces of shit from Detroit in during the last 25 years they would not have made so many improvements to the vehicles in recent years. if you're implying that Harley-Davidsons are "pieces of shit," see my opinion of your opinion above. Let the market forces rule. Don't support an American product that is inferior, or it will always be inferior. the market forces have spoken loud and clear when it comes to Harley's products since their buyout from AMF back in the early 80's, in turn producing one of the most amazing business success stories in this country's history. in my opinion, a slick marketing campaign could buy a company like Harley *some* sales, for a brief period of time, but you don't get the continual record-breaking performance of H-D quarter after quarter, year after year, without having a product that is truly world-class. Otherwise you are basically stating that Americans don't have the brains and abilities to make a bike that keeps up with imports. i'm curious how you would define "keeps up with imports." a cynical person like me might go so far as to suggest that your Buell won't keep up with imports, even with the modifications that you've made, and yet i assume that your bike still provides you with the quality riding experience you desire. my current Harley-Davidson does the same thing for me, as did the four Harleys (two Big Twins, in Shovel and Evo formats, and two Sportsters, in Ironhead and Evo formats) that came before it. there are a lot of misconceptions about the capabilities of modern-day Harley-Davidsons, most often perpetuated by folks who have never had the pleasure of putting some serious miles on one (or more). i can tell you from personal experience that my 2006 Road King (24,000+ miles and counting) is a fine machine, more than capable of holding its own in any kind of street environment i choose to place it in, and equal (or superior) in fit, finish, function and capability to any other big-inch machine available in today's highly competetive moto-marketplace. take care, FB | ||
| Spatten1 |
You are right, my Buell is not close to keeping up with the imports. that is why Buell and HD have such an old demographic, which gets older every day. they buy image, not performance, and the next generation of buyers ain't buying them to play Marlin Brando on the weekend. recent US sales numbers are not so good, which is why HD is focusing on Europe. twin cam bikes are slower than many sports cars, forget about catching a motorcycle. I did mod my bike, and I do ride it at the track. probably no real point in modding it though, it is still a turd on the track. I just hate to put out a fleet of hundreds of bikes that are ridden on the street 8 hour a day that run dirty. just buy something that works out of the box, they are available. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1 FB. Although I choose to ride my Buells more often than my FLHP, it is still a 55k mile Evo that runs like a top and will usually average in the top five or better at a battletrax event. Is it the same animal? Hell no. Is it a good bike? Absolutely. Anything that can survive that many miles at my hands (and the hands of a city PD) is alright in my book, LOL. For those wondering if HD makes a "decent" cop bike, ask a motorman (is "motorperson" or "motorfolk" more politically correct?) sometime. All the motormen I know can't wait to get off their BMWs and back onto the FLH platform. Performance for the HD is where it counts - low speed maneuverability (battletrax stuff), operator comfort, and acceleration (torque) being more important than top speed. Not to mention visibility and instant recognizability. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
twin cam bikes are slower than many sports cars, forget about catching a motorcycle. Scott, i spent nearly 45 minutes composing my post to you above, and you missed it entirely. i should simply move on, but i AM still curious: what personal experience do you possess that gives you the knowledge to make such a bold statement? are you familiar with M2nc (Carlos Suarez) and Nevrenuf (Neil Kemp) on this board? ping 'em sometime and ask them what a Twin Cam (riding two-up and loaded with a weekend's worth of gear, no less) is capable of on a technical road. i consider both these fellows to be fine gentleman, very competent riders and straight shooters, and they can give you first-hand insight into some very recent experiences we all shared. tell 'em Ferris sent you. your disparaging comments about the capabilities and performance of current-day Harley-Davidsons are, to be blunt, ignorant. take care, FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
...and will usually average in the top five or better at a battletrax event. Rat, it's been forever since i've BattleTrax'ed, and never on the RK. i have no pretensions of taking Top Time with it, but i think most folks on hand would be surprised what the thing is really capable of in that situation. let me know if you ever host a BX at your dealership - i'm close enough to you to consider attending. take care, FB | ||
| Xl1200r |
why should you be so militant about the police wanting to have the same beneficial modifications to their motors? Speaking only for myself, my gripe with this would not be allowing the cops to use the same mods we use, but instead to make it LEGAL for both parties to do so. The cops should be allowed to modify thier engines as much as they want so long as they are only limited by the rules we are (aside from lights, sirens, etc). As for the FLH platform being a "decent" bike for police duty (or any duty), I can attest that they are just fine for the job. A couple of days ago I was able to test ride a VROD, a Fatboy and an Electra Glide. The EC was hands down the lightest feeling and most easily maneuvrable bike among the three, and turn-in speeds were suprisingly quick - rivaling a few sportbikes I've ridden. Now I know how those old guys can really "muscle" those big bikes around tight courses like they do - it's because it really isn't *that* hard. Plus the stereo was just cool, haha. | ||
| Mark61 |
I think you all missed the really interesting part of the bid sheet. They want POWER COMMANDER USB3 and NOT the SERT! mark61 | ||
| Jramsey |
Where does one buy "Mystique?" How much does it cost? How long does it last? Is it waterproof? Does it come in a can or a box, and if in a can is it applied with a brush or sprayed. (Message edited by J.ramsey on June 07, 2008) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Jerry, Twin cam bikes weight what, 650 to 750 pounds wet? I don't ride motorcycles like that. I don't want to ride a HD, a Shadow, a Vulcan, etc. I ride bikes that can wheelie, stoppie, accelerate and turn. If you think you can ride a technical road well on a full sized harley, you should try it on a bike that weighs 200 pounds less and has twice the power, better brakes, better suspension, better geometry and better ground clearance. It might work better. Is this too much of a logical stretch for you? Oh, and I have ridden many pre-Twin Cam Harleys and I thought they all rode like slow heavy pigs with horrible brakes. How is a Twin Cam going to catch a Corvette or a GSXR? Only in your fantasies. Now, if I had to eat up 1000 miles of superslab I'd love to do it on a Harley. Bar to bar is fine too (but I would not wear the costume). Catching runaway vehicles...not in my top ten choices. An of course the cops wanted to get off of the BMWs, the police model BMWs are very low performance bikes that couldn't catch a Corvette either. | ||
| Spatten1 |
i'm curious how you would define "keeps up with imports." a cynical person like me might go so far as to suggest that your Buell won't keep up with imports, even with the modifications that you've made, and yet i assume that your bike still provides you with the quality riding experience you desire. Jerry, By keep up with the imports I mean in a straight line or a turn. Pretty simple. And I do love the riding experience of my (second) Buell. But guess what, I got a Buell because I have a family now and wanted a slow bike that still handled well. I am under no illusions that my bike is high performance, and the reliability has not been up to par with any of the Japanese bikes I've owned, probably around 20 of them. That said, the "soul" of the Buell is awesome and I do love the riding experience. BUT, give the cops something that works better in a technical respect, there are many choices. Buying something 50% down on power and changing the muffler is a joke (yes, I did the same, and it made less of an impact than I'd hoped). I leave all of my Japanese engines stock and only mod the suspension for my weight and riding style. The engines have enough power out of the box to get the job done. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Scott, we can respectfully agree to disagree, and i apologize for earlier calling your opinions "ignorant" - i should have found a friendlier way to put it. If you think you can ride a technical road well on a full sized harley, you should try it on a bike that weighs 200 pounds less and has twice the power, better brakes, better suspension, better geometry and better ground clearance. at the risk of sounding like the old fart i am, i've been an avid rider since before you were born. i haven't ridden everything there is, but i've ridden a lot, and i'd be the last person to suggest that a Road King can hustle down a tight road as easily as something that meets your design parameters above. Oh, and I have ridden many pre-Twin Cam Harleys and I thought they all rode like slow heavy pigs with horrible brakes. it's, um, interesting to me that you earlier spoke knowingly about what a Twin Cam Harley is unable to do, yet you've never actually ridden one. it's also telling, i think, that the folks i hear most often condemning late-model Harley-Davidsons for all their perceived shortcomings fall into exactly the same canoe as you. ...the police model BMWs are very low performance bikes... i gotta ask: is THIS statement backed up by personal experience??? Scott, there isn't anything i can say to change your mind, since you don't have the personal late-model Harley experience to relate to, nor do you know me personally and you seem unwilling to take me at my word. as well, there is nothing you can say to change MY mind, because i DO have the personal experience of which i speak. it'd be interesting to put you on the back of my Road King and take you down a neat stretch of twisty road. afterwards, i think you'd have a newfound appreciation for what a late-model Harley-Davidson can actually do. ride to lean, FB | ||
| Spatten1 |
Jerry, The BMW police bikes are 650's and 1100 boxers, and I have ridden civy versions of both. Not high performance vehicles. Nice riding experience, but not high performance. I did a 2-day 1100 mile trip with a guy in our group on a Road King last year. I was very jealous of him riding 40 accross the northern Colorado desert for 5 hours. I would have traded with him in a second. The Road King seating position is perfect for long rides, and I'd like the HD engine feel on a long trip too. His bike also did the best going over a 12,500 foot pass. His fuel injection worked great. When my kids grow up and I can do week long cross country trips, a Road King is near the top of my list for a touring second-bike that can haul a tent and cooking gear in style. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
When my kids grow up and I can do week long cross country trips, a Road King is near the top of my list for a touring second-bike that can haul a tent and cooking gear in style. cool! when you get it, the fact that you can also hustle it down a twisty road will be a very pleasant bonus. :-) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Good one dude! | ||
| Tramp |
" The BMW police bikes are 650's and 1100 boxers" This is not an accurate statement. that being said, however: The HD's clutch, alone, is far superior to that of the BMW Police line. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
jerry, you don't have to ask me to do anything for you. i was gonna jump in anyhow when i started reading this. as a two up rider, i've impressed a couple people up in the hills, but when i'm being outrode by a guy who has what, 8 yrs on me(sorry if i went over board, i'll be 51 at the end of august) and riding a road king through the cherry cola skyway and back roads of north carolina, it's made me think that i need to take the advanced riders course along with doing the inside pass thing to get my skill of riding up there. spatten, don't ever think for one minute that jerry couldn't outride you in the best of conditions on his road king or even in the worst. when we were done the first thing i asked him was, did you ever race before. and one of the comments m2nc made was that jerry is proof that it's the person and not the bike. which in terms of motorcycle cops, they are very well trained. my old salesman(rob cornelius) down in tampa supposedly had the opportunity to train with the sheriffs dept and just watching the way he handled a full dresser told me he was trained pretty good. hopefully m2nc will chime in and add a little with his experience with riding with jerry. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Funny, I don't ever tell people I don't know that I can out ride them. Hope you guys have rear-sets on them hogs for more ground clearance, the stocker Road King might run out of lean angle.  | ||
| Spatten1 |
I don't doubt Jerry, and many others on this board can out ride me. But...it ain't gonna be with them on a Road King and me on my XB. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
it's the rider and not the motorcycle. Last weekend I saw Bubba Blackwell do wheelies on his Ultra Glide. You can see the pictures on his website. http://www.bubbablackwell.com/buellshows.html I also saw video of a guy riding the Dragon on a Goldwing and the rider on the sportbike had trouble keeping-up with him while filming the ride. I saw that video here on Badweb but I don't know how to look it up. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
i don't make comments about shit i haven't seen with my own eyes either. maybe he can and maybe he can't but don't think that a motorcycle cop couldn't catch you in the hills on an flhp. dragging knee ain't nothing for a lot of people even those on the uly. there was also a pic that someone posted of the guy on the wide glide at the track dragging knee. your not impressing anyone on the buell cause we all know how well they handle. do it on a big twin and i'll have more respect for ya. (Message edited by nevrenuf on June 07, 2008) | ||
| Dynasport |
Yellow Wolf on his Gold Wing following a Duc. The guy can ride. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWy-sVCaJY | ||
| Oldog |
If I may Ferris, I was in the pack just in your wake,( behind Neil and Carlos) over the "Cherry Cola" Scott, I was on an X1 following Ferris & D (TWO UP) I think that In the hands of a well trained motor officer the "BOB" will STUN a lot of "sport" riders on a technical road. Jerrys comments about the handling and power delivery of the HD are valid. Add me to the list,I too was there and will attest to the fact that we were moving at very high speeds. In the hands of a rider of his skill level the motor cycle is well suited to the job. Seeing is believing, and I saw it happen 2 times , I also followed Jerry down the dragon 2 years prior, he was at the other end out of his gear waiting on us [CHECKED -OUT] in the rain, if a motor officer is that skilled in an urban setting he should be able to persue and aprenend a suspect, As far as Ferris out riding you on your Xb, Don't put too much money on that friend I HAVE seen him ride, you may be in for a shock. One last though on persuit, most departments make use of the RADIO as its faster than say a BUSA or VETTE The original thread topic was about LE having Stuff that we could not have. (Message edited by oldog on June 08, 2008) | ||
| Oldog |
BTW this is a small segment of road that Ferris lead the ride, check the map and the track data. My GPS, I had ferris in site all afternoon. Data table for part of the track highlight  Data.  map. sample in light blue.. Nuff Said. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I really should avoid this one, but I can't. Ferris is fast, quick, and smooth on his RK. He'll drop 90%, or more, sportbike riders with his BOB and he'll keep the other 10% honest. M2NC will be along shortly -- there's no shortage of folks that have ridden with Ferris. So this isn't Internet hyperbole when people write that he's fast and proficient. One point that I'd like to add is lean angle and Road Kings. Those floorboards fold way up and make wonderful feelers (after you get used to the sound and light show.) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Or they could just get a couple of these and call it good  http://www.buell.com/en_us/bikes/adventure/xb12xp. asp | ||
| Unibear12r |
+Another on just how good Jerry is and the comments on the RK. What he does at times with big, heavy bikes seems to be contrary to the laws of physics. And it doesn't matter if D's on the back or not, it's all the same. Most of the time, just to keep him in sight, I had to sneak over and let most of the air out of his tires when he wasn't looking!  The only real questions I have is weather that poor RK has any floorboards left at all and if he's worn off all the chrome off the front disks yet! | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Funny, I don't ever tell people I don't know that I can out ride them. Scott, with all due respect, i never said i could out ride you, and that wasn't my intent in my earlier posts. my apologies if i came off that way. i was only trying to find a way to explain that a late-model Harley (Twin-Cam Road King, in this case) has way more performance capabilities than you'd ever think possible, especially since you've confessed you don't have any seat time on one to formulate your own first-hand impression. i appreciate everyone chiming in on my behalf (altho now i've got to find a bigger helmet, as my head has grown a couple of sizes in the last few minutes...), but my comments to Scott weren't trying to claim dominance as a rider, but simply to help someone who's never ridden a big ol' boat like my RK in anger to comprehend that it's not all about show, that's there's also a lot of go, too. it ain't a sportbike, to be sure, but that's not my contention. it's heavy, large, long, has relatively limited ground clearance, doesn't possess the best brakes or suspension in the world, and altho relatively torquey, it isn't gonna impress anyone with its horsepower ratings, dragstrip performance, or top speed numbers. all that said, however, it's a suprisingly capable bike on a twisty road, and i've got the personal experience to back up that statement. as a plus (IMO) is the timeless, classic styling, a visual link to all the bike's ancestors and to the legendary company that built 'em. Scott, if you ever find yourself pointed in the direction of the Blue Ridge Parkway, please give a shout. i can show you some tasty local roads, and maybe at the end of the day we'll run down to Tilley's and you can finally get that Road King you've been dreaming of. :-) back to topic, Xl1200r said "Speaking only for myself, my gripe with this would not be allowing the cops to use the same mods we use, but instead to make it LEGAL for both parties to do so. The cops should be allowed to modify thier engines as much as they want so long as they are only limited by the rules we are (aside from lights, sirens, etc)." +1. the only performance mods i've made to the RK are a custom-mapped PCIII, K&N air filter assembly (running the factory ham-can outer cover), and a set of specially-tuned Rush slip-ons with the factory headpipes. altho the bike has always run very, very well (the FI system has been marvelous; i concur with Scott's earlier observations in this regard), it's just that much happier with the above changes, and i don't blame the Police Department in question for wanting to have similar modifications made to their fleet. FB | ||
| Oldog |
now i've got to find a bigger helmet, as my head has grown a couple of sizes in the last few minutes Naah. we ( the chimers' in ) have seen it, ME the RK is not a good fit, for YOU it works, On the above comments about the sound and light show - yes it was entertaining  I have one question did you ever shift, up there? A thought, The police have always had access to special equipment for their vehicles so whats new other than that is in voilation of the current EPA regs. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
The law does not apply to police officers and government officials. You guys should know that by now. I have a friend who is Highway patrol officer who is also big in the Ford mustang world. His car is illegal as heck. Nitrous, no cats, and a bunch of race use only parts. He also races around town and brags about not getting tickets even when pulled over, a common courtesy he says. I saw it first hand. I say it is bull. You guys are silly, other than noise control tell me what the muffler has to do with emissions. If there is a catalytic converter in it I am unaware of it. My only beef with loud exhaust is the jack asses leaving the bars at 2:30 am. Show a little respect for the rest of us. Use the right wrist and tone it down. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Jerry, I know you didn't insinuate that you said are faster than me, I intended that comment for another poster. Sorry for the confusion. You are obviously modest in that respect, which I appreciate very much. Now you finally have me very curious to ride the TC bikes. I need to find a dealer that will do a demo going west into the mountains. I guess after my years wrenching in MC shops and riding all makes have become obsolete, as I've been out of that business since long before the TC came out. One thing I never question is how fast a guy can be on his local road on his normal bike. I remember a guy at Palomar on an old Ninja 900 with bias ply tires that could really haul. He pulled away from me on a newer Nina 900 with 75 pounds less weight. He knew every ripple on the pavement and never over-braked for any turns, carrying maximum momentum up the whole mountain. I just couldn't carry the same momentum into the blind tight turns, I didn't have the balls. |
