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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive through June 13, 2008 » H-D to buy out MV Agusta « Previous Next »

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Archive through June 09, 2008Spatten130 06-09-08  03:57 pm
         

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Ferris_von_bueller
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm not saying that MVs are as unreliable as a Jag was, but I am saying that the buyer for that type of bike is willing to spend a lot of dough and put up with some crap because that machine is so damn beautiful and awe inspiring.

Apparently, not enough people or they wouldn't be in need of a "bailing out"
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Spatten1
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't think it's that simple.

It seems that Italian motorcycle manufacturers are better at putting passion into the product than monitoring the balance sheet.

Ducati always spends enough to do well in international racing and build gorgeous fast bikes, but then nearly goes out of business annually ever since the TPG financial controls were removed.

A good healthy business group at the helm of MV might be able to do something wonderful with it.
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Ducxl
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A good healthy business group at the helm of MV might be able to do something wonderful with it.

THe rest of your post spoke to the passion of uncompromising quality motorcycles.

In my view,the sentence i quoted puts the bean counters and marketing ahead of engineering.Quality suffers as a result.

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Unibear12r
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

But then again the motorcycle and the company are still around five or ten years down the road. The trick is to put in the most quality you can but stay solvent. Buell seems to be on a smart curve of quality vs. production/longevity to me.

Ducati is either a master at this or just foolish and damn lucky. At the very edge it amounts to about the same thing.

With MV I think Harley is getting more of whatever they are looking for with a lot less bs than Ducati brings to the table every time they cry "buy me" to HD every few years.

Or else HD figures this will shake up Ducati (and it will!) and this will finally make them put up and shut up.
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Spatten1
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

In the 90s Ducati had a great run with TPG watching the numbers, and fostering what makes Ducati special. I don't think fiscal discipline and quality and passion are mutually exclusive.
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Rfischer
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cagiva's [MV] problem is that the words "fiscal discipline" and Claudio Castiglioni are mutually exclusive. Just ask Proton. Their managing director got sacked over it. And they wrote off several hundred million Euros. Cagiva did however get a wonderful state-of-the-art manufacturing facility. One that cannot possibly be paid for with the limited sales of MV/Cagiva bikes. H-D's debt assumption offer is likely linked closely to their estimate of the operating worth of the factory. Maybe a dollar or two for the brand name.

(Message edited by rfischer on June 10, 2008)
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Spatten1
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds like they'd be picking up some pretty good tooling too. Think of how long the 916 design was viable due to stellar looks and a solid chassis design. I believe that the current MVs are just as timeless and someone could make a good run with them. Sounds like it would have to be someone with the ability to make better financial decisions, but that shouldn't be impossible.
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Bill0351
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe they should buy Norton too.

If all they are investing in is the brand, Norton would probably get more name recognition in the US than Agusta. Triumph has only been back in the USA for a little more than 10 years and they have an impressive presence in the sport-bike community. With the right moves, HD could do the same for MV or Norton.

Obviously someone down there in Milwaukee knows what they are doing. They took a brand that sold less than 50,000 bikes in 1980 to a company that has been able to sell over 300,000 bikes per year.

I just like to see that HD isn't sitting still and hoping things will get better. They are looking toward the future. MV Agusta doesn't make any sense to be now, but if they are moving 100,000 units in 10 years they will look like geniuses.

Bill
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Brumbear
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

now there is a thought HD/Norton racing and the true spirit of hooliganism all rapped up into one.
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Rfischer
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dunno if the Norton brand would make any sense for H-D, given their market position with Buell. Kenny Dreer's failed attempt to make a new Norton previewed a lovely bike......and a $17,000 price tag. But it wasn't no MV Agusta.
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Crashcourse411
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

or maybe....

or maybe....

I can't believe this has not been said.


They could buy Indian, then they would have more racing history than anybody, especially the Italians and the English. It would be a lot cheaper than $300 mil, since prior owners have turn the name into the community bicycle.
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Bill0351
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Buying the Indian brand?

I think the biggest problem is that they would have to change the name of the company to "Native American" or "Native Person." The logo would have to be a tastefully dressed genderless person with dark skin and high cheekbones.

NATIVE PERSON MOTORCYCLE COMPANY

It just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Bill
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Bill0351
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Or....

In one last snub to their former rival, they could use the Indian name to import a lineup of colorful 50cc Chinese scooters.

Bill
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Xlcrguy
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

MV Agusta denies Harley-Davidson buyout

See it here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults /mcn/2008/June/9-15/jun1108mv-agusta-deny-harley-d avidson-buy-out/?R=EPI-101028
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Rfischer
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Claudio, who is a consummate shuck & jive artist, is still trying to con another Asian industrial giant into financing his hobby, a la Proton, cf. Mahindra or Tata. The premise is that if the investor is big enough, they won't miss the 40-50 million Euros he burns through each year.

H-D, no recent resident of the turnip patch, is only interested in assuming a discounted portion of the debt held by Gevi, banks, and a couple major suppliers to gain control of the company. It will be interesting to see if Harley pursues what clearly will turn into a hostile take-over.

Great power sports industry soap opera!
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Swordsman
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've heard of MV Agusta. I've even seen them. I have no idea what a "Norton" is. Had to look it up on Wikipedia. Not so sure that name would have any pull for US customers under 30.
Heck, were they even sold here in the 80's?
~SM
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Brumbear
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

are you sure about that looky here

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Brumbear
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)



oe here
nortonmotorcycles.com
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Zane
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I personally would love to see the old Indian name come back. Those were some really beautiful bike. I hit the new Indian web site and it says they're gonna start selling bikes in the second half of 2008. But I think they're doomed to failure. Low end bikes start at $31,000 and go up to $35 and change. I don't see anyone paying that much for a factory bike when a you can get a HD Ultra Classic in the neighborhood of $21k. Also there is no dealership network in place. They're building the first one now. What are they gonna do, sell them out of the back of a van?

Real shame.

(Message edited by Zane on June 11, 2008)
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Rex
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 05:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Norton would be cool. A lot of work is already done. A lot of Norton fans.....but probably not.

MV Agusts. Cannot really see this happening. Two sportbike companies? they would get some high end 4 cylinder motors though.

Indian. I hope they make it, but I doubt it...still doing the HD clone motor. they need to step up, and make something unique. Just because it has the Indian name on it, they think it will sell. Will probably go a couple of years and then go away again. Really too bad.

they need a motor like the triumph rocket three.
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