| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
You win.  | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
You guys seem to be forgetting all the great press Buell got back in the day from MO http://www.motorcycle.com You should go check out some of their past reviews. Here is a classic quote from their former editor "Sean on the Buell XB-12S: Here boy! ::whistle:: come on boy! Aw! That's a good boy! Man this is a great bike I tell you. It feels like the world's biggest/fastest Schwinn Stingray." | ||
| Retrittion |
Love my XB, keeping my XB -- enough said? Personally, if the people who think a 'busa, ZX14, R1, etc., or whatever metric is the current be-all and end-all then I'm fine with that. The only thing that sucks is HD's lack of any real demand that the dealers are knowledgeable and support Buells on the showroom floor, the parts counter, and in the shop. But since I like the great people who ride Buells and who are always there to help us me out -- he|| most guys I know who ride metrics don't even know how to change their oil. | ||
| Ducxl |
Except for visiting a downed Bueller yesterday,I had a great ride on my XBr. Bikes with FI defects aren't isolated to Buell.The Ducati 996 had FI defects that the aftermarket had to solve.IT,was a 3800 stumble...very pronounced | ||
| 4cammer |
It is my guess that most anyone that was brought up on Japanese 4 stroke 4 cylinder sportbikes would find my '07 XB9R very unsatisfying. She shakes, she makes my pants smell like exhaust, her top end is lacking and her engine makes more noise than a room full of drunk strippers. Read most any bike mag anymore, be it from the US or the UK and all it is is about SPEED. How fast can you go. What is the top end mph? Ninety is enough for me. Maybe this is why Classic Bike is my fave Brit mag - they still remember why people used to buy bikes. Character....and speed. I smirk at every mention that a particular bike has "niggling vibration" in the bars, seat and/or pegs. It is a MOTORcycle (actually engine....) not a freaking washing machine. Or that is sputters or pops. Please. Reading reviews of Buells in most mags is frustrating because they are compared to more mainstream bikes. Not everyone is wired to like a Buell, want a Buell or ride one. I am. Thank G-d. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My friend has spent years trying to sort out FI issues on his DL1000. Another buddy spent quite a bit sorting out FI issues on his FZ1. There is no place but up for the 1125R. It will simply get better from here. | ||
| Tramp |
growing pains will always present with adaptation of recently-acquired tech. few FI scoots hit the pavement without considerable stutter. The first FI BMW motorycles were a nightmare, with attendant surging and hunting, and a 'notchy' potentiometer signal. give the f*cking thing a chance, as so many did with many first run Duc and Beemmer FI scoots | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
This is the 3rd iteration and 9th year of DDFI. Maybe it's time to let a company that specializes in fuel injection design the system. I hear Harley's open loop systems work great. Bravo !! The 03's had issues. Those issues were corrected in subsequent model years. You must not venture onto the XB board much. I read the same complaints for the 08's - surging, pinging and hesitation. Considering Buell has had years to troubleshoot the XB motor, one would think it'd run like a Swiss watch. | ||
| Tramp |
It took BMW many years to sort out their issues, and they answered to Bosch, the great god of automotive electronics. You'd be shocked at how complex an issue FI R&D really can be. that being said, however, i am baffled by the present issues, taken in light of the Aprilia's near-seamless FI condition. | ||
| Bartimus |
With 5 tubers, and 2 XB's, I think I've been the fortunate one when it comes to Buell reliability. Three '95 S2's, one with over 155,000 miles on the clock, have NEVER left me stranded, or caused undue stress due to failures. One '98 S1W, ran like a clock until I put Mobil 1 gear oil in the primary. Only failure I ever had was the stator going out, and I blame it on Mobil 1, NOT Buell! One '99 S3, ran like crap, vibrated, and shook like hell. (bought used) found worn isolators, worn wheel, and steering bearings, found badly spliced wires, found piss-poor maintenance had been performed by morons. I got rid of that bike as fast as I could. I don't blame Buell for that mess, It was the previous owner that ruined that bike. One '05 city-x, 18,000 trouble free miles of hard riding through the mountains of Arizona and New Mexico... And one '08 XB12XT, has given me plenty of grins in the meager 650 miles I've put on it. Like I said, I've been very fortunate to have never received one of those Buells that "suck". In my book, Buell is doing just fine, although I still wish they would build something modern that has the S2's beauty, a sport tourer's ability, and the 1125R's power. Stay tuned! | ||
| Tramp |
i agree. i won't even discuss the outrageous mileage i put on my '96 S2T....the past 40K or so have been estimated, due to second odometer failure. Mobil 1 is NOT the way to go in air-cooled HD V-twins, nor is any synthetic a great idea for these. One of synthetic's greatest qualities, that non-stick nature, is what renders it a poor candidate for antique roller- bearing mains- for such big ball-bearings, a lube should possess tenacity. tenacity has n little to do with weight, and all to do with 'adhesive quality', by which it remains 'sticky' on the balls in the races, ensuring well-lubed cold-start, esp. imporatnt in colder climes, where the engine oil requires more time to 'flow out' with heat and reach these components. tenacity is that honey-like quality of chainsaw bar oil that keeps chainsaw bars & chains running better and longer with less wear than with regular motor oil. argued to death by many, but simple logic underscores the organic-oil argument. "If it didn't come from dinosaurs, don't put it in one." -me | ||
| Id073897 |
The FI stuff itself is not very complex, IMO more simple. I've written large parts of it myself (until I learned how to cope with the ECM). The complex part is to comply with antipollution laws. The '08 model complaints apparantly are caused by that. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Mobil 1 is NOT the way to go in air-cooled HD V-twins, nor is any synthetic a great idea for these. You could be correct but that stuff that looked like mineral oil that came out on the first oil change didn't look all that "protective". | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Mobil 1 is NOT the way to go in air-cooled HD V-twins, nor is any synthetic a great idea for these." Both of the PDC dyno guys I've spoken to, that spend all day trying to blow up HD/Buell motors, recommend 20W50 Mobile 1 VTWIN Syn. Why would I use anything else? | ||
| Strato9r |
I guess whether or not anything "sucks" is pretty subjective. I have not had any real problems with my Firebolt, and what little has come up was handled quickly and with a smile by my dealer, and now that the bike is off warranty, I've been able to take care anything that comes up in the same manner. It is a fine machine, period. I really would love to keep it, AND buy an XT, but you can only ride one bike at a time, and my gal is as comfortable on the XT as she is tortured on the 'bolt. I don't think that Buells suck at all. And I freakin' LOVE to prove it...... .........a guy merges into my lane coming off of an offramp and gives me this kind of dead eyed look usually reserved for real estate agents in new 'vettes. He is on a very beautiful sport twin, the kind of bike the magazines really write sexy articles about, and make readers all revved up about, even me. We pull up to the next stoplight, and I just have to tell this guy how much I love his bike, and he snubs me outright, (usually an activity reserved for Gold Wing riders), looking away like some rockstar sick of being told how cool he is. Light turns green, he takes off like he has something to prove, and FREAKIN FLIPS ME OFF!...... ......well it just so happens that the dude was heading in the direction I has going; down into the river valley where there is an abundance of offramps and twisty pavement. Sweet. And almost no traffic at this hour, either...... ......I'm no hotshot rider, but I know my bike. Mr. Prettyshoes had me outgunned by at least 50 horsepower, but I rode around that dude and his bike smoothly and easily while he was doing everything in his power to keep up. I never shifted out of third gear, even when I slowed down to let him catch up. I lost sight of the guy, but a while later, he pulls a light with me, and much to my surprise, pulls up his helmet, APOLOGIZES for being rude, and says, "That thing is f*cking AWESOME!" Thanks, man, but I already knew that.... | ||
| Tramp |
"You could be correct but that stuff that looked like mineral oil that came out on the first oil change didn't look all that "protective"." ...nor is it meant to be, at all- it's actually formulated to do exactly the opposite of what tenacious, high molybdenum organic oils do- it's high-detergent low weight lube meant to simply flow easily and collect metallic particulates, and be dumped from the crankcase as quickly as possible. don't confuse factory run-in with correct, longer-interval lubes | ||
| Tramp |
IDO73897 posted: "The FI stuff itself is not very complex, IMO more simple. I've written large parts of it myself (until I learned how to cope with the ECM). The complex part is to comply with antipollution laws. The '08 model complaints apparantly are caused by that." That is not an accurate statement. Unless you've performed more FI R&D work than all of the collective engineering staff (thousands, incidentally) of Bosch AG, your statement stands on it's own, limited experience. It took BMW AG 5 years to straighten out their extremely well-engineered Bosch FI systems, and, much as in the case of Buell, the 'antipollution" reg.s were already in place prior to this engineering. | ||
| Tramp |
"Both of the PDC dyno guys I've spoken to, that spend all day trying to blow up HD/Buell motors, recommend 20W50 Mobile 1 VTWIN Syn. Why would I use anything else?" because they're not observing the long-term, hi-mile effects of this recommendation's implementation.... ...or maybe because you choose to follow logic... | ||
| Rick_a |
I like the STT. It's my favorite XB. I'm with ya on the old-schooler, though. My S1 is with me for life, too. The major shortcoming with conventional oil is that it breaks down earlier in high temps. I do know that regular oil pours out like water after 2500 miles and leaves burnt deposits near the exhaust valves in the heads. That said I've never heard of any H-D/Buell motor that's met an untimely end due to synthetic vs. conventional oil. Tuning EFI may be easy, but engineering/programming an EFI system certainly is not! Stop the madness. Back to the topic, please... | ||
| Tramp |
not all organic oils are the same, Kendall and Penz tend to go far, I've found, and for HD engines, the Spectro or HD brand v-twin formulation, and, of coourse, my old standby, "Rotella", stand up well to mileage. I simply change my oil pretty frequently, which gives the added advantage (over synth w/fewer changes) of removing metallic particles more frequently, and of keeping a higher crank Ph. You have no way of knowing if you have or have not heard of motors breaking down due to synth v organic. Either one may be causing more breakdown, but not all HD techs really record big-pic data on the specific compnent failures | ||
| Id073897 |
That is not an accurate statement. Unless you've performed more FI R&D work than all of the collective engineering staff (thousands, incidentally) of Bosch AG, your statement stands on it's own, limited experience. Oh, sorry. No offence meant. I didn't realize you performed such work. Anyway. What did you say, was your last project? Regards, Gunter | ||
| Tramp |
with regard to FI? I didn't, as you're aware. Data collection re: Bosch fuel/ign. interface service issues, through BMW/NA in concert w/BMW GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, for those who don't share your heritage) in 1998-99, w/BMW/NA tech services Not sure offense was intoned, any more than sarcasm was appropriately indicated. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Why, I ask with no little curiosity, is it acceptable to pay $13k-$14K for something (In this case an 1125)and not have it work properly? And why...still curious... is it acceptable to accept this just because similar teething problems can be found with other brands? Would this same magnanimous position be taken if it happened with your car, your plasma TV, your garden tractor? It is very easy to make excuses for "friends," to justify problems. Yet, how friendly is the bank when your Buell, TV, garden tractor is in the shop? Do they cut you slack because you know nice guys at the factory? I have been buying motorcycles for 44 years, and I am way past the point of believing that we are just one big happy family of riders and manufacturers that should go out of our way to accept as normal anything but equipment that performs as designed. It is your money, your loan that pays for a companies defects. I think it just great that now and again "anon" comes aboard and helps. And I think it just ridiculous that they need to. | ||
| Rick_a |
I can tell you for a fact that all catastrophic oil related failures coming through our dealership in the last 4 years have been due to no oil/oil pressure, not the type of oil. The only crank bearing failure I've seen has been from improper assembly by another shop (clearances way too tight). Every other bottom end we've replaced has been due to engine sprocket nuts coming loose or stator bolts shearing off damaging the engine shaft. There are a couple exceptions, like one thrown rod and one shifted crank...both had nothing to do with the type of oil used. Oil is good for your engine. No oil is bad. Those are the basic facts  Back to topic, please! | ||
| Tramp |
getting right back to topic, I bow (unsarcastically) to Reg's apt. point. I've owned NO new bikes as an adult, and I suffer from that attendant mechanical myopia that comes from being a decent wrench with spare time on my hands.. Were I to purchase new scoots, I doubt I'd take such a passive approach to these service issues, and I'd be with messr.s Jagger and Richards at the front of the line demanding satisfaction well said, Reg. | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
I agree! Buells Suck! Buells suck....the chrome right off that bloated cruiser as they roar past. Buells suck....the carbon fiber right off the poser-boys' inline fours as they pass them on a twisty road. Buells suck....the windows out of parked automobiles, setting off a symphony of car alarms for all to enjoy!  Here's my list of Buell "complaints" for the past 8 years: '00 X1: rocker box gaskets leaked (replaced with the updated ones and never leaked again) one stator (shop replaced it during routine service because they said it was going bad, 'though I'd never had any trouble with it. The one they replaced it with failed almost immediately! Re-replaced and fine ever after. 'Til I killed it.  (Crashed) '95 S2: leaky cylinder/head gaskets (well, they're original and the bike IS 13 years old!) 2 broken turn signals; broke at stalks (well, they're original and the bike IS 13 years old!) 1 speedo cable; well, it was original and the bike IS....oh, you know...oh yeah, and I never lubricated it...ever.) (Still have; never part with)  '05 XB12R: I got nuthin'...Oh yeah! Seemed to wear out rear tires pretty fast! (Sold to finance S1 purchase) '98 S3T: horn died rear isolators shot (well, they're original and the bike IS 10 years old!) (Still have; strongest feeling motor I've ever felt in a Buell!) '97 S1: bubbled decals on tank seat uncomfortable (Never part with) Gosh, these are just terrible bikes!  HellBuelly J ("would you like fries with that kool-aid?") | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
My M2 ate it's oil pump the day I bought it used nearly 5 years ago. It's still in my garage (albeit wrecked) after many grin inducing miles. I rode it from Western France up to the Isle of Man for the TT & back last year, fully loaded, with no trouble. I've just bought a brand new Xb12STT that gives me an even bigger grin than the M2. Enough said? | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Lest you think I'm among the disenchanted... I have a 96 S1, CA SN17. It served as the battle2win "lab rat", I rode it thousands of street miles, and I raced it to a CCS championship in 2001. It never failed under any circumstance that could be attributed to Buell corp., or anyone else. Furthermore, a significant number of problems on other tubers with which I was acquainted resulted from ham-fisted owners. But, the documented fact remains: Buell's reliability record has been spotty. You can twist it, iron it out, paint it, or shred it, but those problems are still on the record. I can forgive "tube" issues (mostly, the X1 f.i. the exception) and the XBs have a good record, but there is no excuse for the problems with the 1125. We are talking about a product from one of the premier motorcycle manufacturers. A company with huge engineering, testing, and cash resources. That Buell may not be getting it's share of those resources says volumes about the H-D mindset. Certainly interesting, but the result is a motorcycle that was not ready for the press intro at Laguna, and has not been ready for the pages of enthusiast magazines. Contrary to what some seem to think, most of the writers you read want Buell to succeed, but when -- for example-- a motorcycle shows up with a dead battery (ala CW's test) there is something truly amiss in the process that cannot be ignored. Now, would someone please answer the question I posed above? | ||
| Tramp |
Reg, my answer (bear in mind I'm not one of the faithful with regard to this or any other brand)is, simply, the allure of the unique, the calling of the cult iron. Think of the Triumph Spitfire (car) owners, the BSA lightning owners ( a crank with a bearing on one end and a bushing on the other? negro, please), the Lotus Europa adherents (had one, unreal stupidity in engineering) the Maserati Biturbo chowderheads ( "whaddaya mean I have to hoist the engine to change a spark plug?") , etc. ad neauseum. We, any of us, get attached to a brand name, and that's all she wrote. More zealous followers have partaken in far stronger Jonestownian brew than Buell-aid and lived to tell about it, and to unpeel the greenbacks for suture models in-brand. It's part of the human condition, a sort of moto-monogamy that pervades those darker spaces in the gut, where the mere timbre of one brand's exhaust note sound s like home and apple pie, and grandma's feather bed Norton. X-factor, Reg. that's all I gots on this one. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
That works for me, Tramp. |
