| Author | Message | ||
     Retrittion |
1911A1 .45ACP -- my grandfather carried one, my dad carried one, I carry one. Accurate, good safeties, good round, perfect ergonomics for me. But I'm fond of proven designs, function over form -- 1911s, M14s, and Buells.  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I read all this & I thank my stars I don't live somewhere where I feel the need to arm myself. I just hope all of you never have to use em.  | ||
| Cowboy |
I find that guns are misunderstood . We have many instances where there has been mass shootings in schools and places where guns are not aloud but there is not one reported case of a shooting at the shooting range. (when every one has one every one behaves) | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
But, Mr. Grumpy, they wouldn't let you arm yourself even if you wanted to. | ||
| Mikej |
"I thank my stars I don't live somewhere where I feel the need to arm myself. " I live here and I don't feel the need to arm myself. But it is nice to have that option should I feel it prudent to do so. I've also driven around Compton and South Central Los Angeles and Boyle Heights and Pershing Square in an open top sportscar with a bunch of photo gear in the passenger seat at night and didn't have a firearm with me. Sometimes it's not so much what you have as it is knowing what's happening around you that matters. (And sometimes just dumb naieve (sp?) luck comes into play as well  ) | ||
| Cochise |
If you were raised in a home that uses lawnmowers, it doesn't make you a 'Mower nut, either. If mowers were outlawed, many'd probably join the NMA, if, in fact, such an advocacy org. existed. "What's that in your left boot?" "Officer, I have a conceal and carry Permit for that lawnmower."} | ||
| Tramp |
Well-said, Mikej. Too many people carry too often, in my opinion. I have rarely carried a gun outside 'the field' (hunting) stateside. Here in America, we have far too much paranoia, albeit oft-warranted. I'm often in NYC's really bad neighbourhoods and I feel pretty secure without a sidearm, and haven't suffered any major altercations, there. What I have found annoying are loudmouths who shoot their mouths off in bars and are full of bravado, who, when you step outside to discuss it like men, **pull up their shirts to show their piece** This happens with far too much frequency . 6 years ago, I was keeping a big, fat punk off a stage where a band was performing (i did security for the band), and he just kept coming, put his nose against mine and started yelling really bad movie cliches ("I'll rip your head off and sh*t down your throat", etc.).. we took it outside, where he and two friends decided to jump me. In the fray, (after being laid-out) he pulled a Glock. After the Police arrived and the dust had settled, , it turned out he was a small-town NJ cop (we were in NYC). Bear in mind his tin doesn't afford him legal carry out of state. Witnesses (including two of his idiot, also-armed fellow NJ cops)testified that he was bombed on G&Ts, started the whole thing, and had swung on me, twice, before I struck him. Long and short of it: he lost his job, required reconstructive surgery to his septum and cheek. He had the nerve, at his chief's office when I visited with same, to ask me to speak in his defense (I never pressed charges, and never do- he was charged by the NYPD). Unreal. People who carry and then grow gun-balls out in public (or even carry while getting really plastered) should be stripped of their carry status. | ||
| Xandersam |
"I thank my stars I don't live somewhere where I feel the need to arm myself. " Mr_grumpy The problem is, bad situations don't generally announce themselves prior to the need to arm yourself. Kinda' like ATGATT - it's a choice (or at least should be), prepare with your gear, or just deal with the consequences, if you're still here. | ||
| Tramp |
How you handle yourself and what you do does wonders in interdicting stupidity. Chronic-carry (outside of cops, on or off duty) is often a psychological condition, a jittery result of watching too many Dirty harry films, and thinking that the world, outside of Mayberry, is festering with angry, pathologically violent 1970s-Jive Turkey negroes whose greatest desire is to copulate with the wives of caucasian men. Carry yourself like a goddam man, don't dilly-dally in bad neighbourhoods, and toss the Chuck Norris DVDs in the trash. Learn to avoid bad areas and bad situations, and take some good, classic okinawan karate or straight main-island aikido classes for a year, to develop real confidence, as opposed to canned, nervous, carry-balls. This doesn't go for all carriers, by any means, but the jittery little gun-nerds are everywhere, these days. (Message edited by tramp on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I carry simply so that someone else can't "over escalate" me. I am working toward black belts in Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and TKD. What's most beneficial in the training is the understanding that no matter how much you know in each of these disciplines, there is ALWAYS someone who knows more. In a sparring situation, that isn't really an issue other than to serve as a learning exercise. In life, it can mean the matter of life or death for you or someone else. I simply don't want someone else to have the ability to trump my training by being armed and me not having the ability to match threat. No one knows I'm carrying until after it's too late. | ||
| Tramp |
"No one knows I'm carrying until after it's too late." so, you've shot some threatening thugs already with your concealed weapon? congrats. Try to get away form your present dojos and into a boxing ring or a barfight, sometime, so that you understand, as one can only understand through *first hand* experience, the 'gaps' in your training/form that you may work to overcome when you return to the dojo. One of the shortcomings of jujitsu lies in the close-contact nature of the form: if even a mediocre streetfighter, who happens to be very *fast*, breaks your nose (esp. with an incurrent concussion) before you can get your hooks on him, you've preemptively lost the skirmish. We learn our 'data gaps' only through 'field testing'. | ||
| Tramp |
...and on the flip-side, i've had some really quick high-school wrestlers monkey my ass up before i knew what was happening. Application/execution often overcomes form. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Being an ex-leo and my Academy class combat course winner, I'm interested to know how many people, who will be placing themselves into combat situation, will be taking a training course. What gun(s) are good and great makes no difference, if in a high stress situation, they can't shoot it. Targets and people are two totally different things folks. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
so, you've shot some threatening thugs already with your concealed weapon? congrats. Try to get away form your present dojos and into a boxing ring or a barfight, sometime, so that you understand, as one can only understand through *first hand* experience, the 'gaps' in your training/form that you may work to overcome when you return to the dojo. One of the shortcomings of jujitsu lies in the close-contact nature of the form: if even a mediocre streetfighter, who happens to be very *fast*, breaks your nose (esp. with an incurrent concussion) before you can get your hooks on him, you've preemptively lost the skirmish. We learn our 'data gaps' only through 'field testing'. I simply don't advertise that I'm carrying. You won't see me brandishing it for effect. I don't mention TKD or BJJ to try to bad ass up. I think you misunderstand my post. I'm one of the most unassuming people you could meet. I don't carry attitude on my shoulder. That said, I work to be able to best recognize and react to developing situations. I believe martial arts provide that preparation best. Most protracted encounters end up on the ground at some point particularly when one of the two has little or no training. The "close quarters" you mentioned is exactly what occurs in these ground encounters. I believe BJJ to be a good compliment to TKD in this function. The best fights are the ones you can avoid. If you are a bouncer or working security, you don't have that option. The fights come looking for you. If I'm in a fight, it's because I have done everything to avoid it and have not been able to. I am too old for bar fights. There aren't too many "rowdies" at Chili's. I've got nothing to prove to anyone. Someone claims that they can kick my ass. I agree with them and leave it at that unless they insist on putting their claim to the test. They may be able to back it up. They may not. It was their choice. Still, having the training is better than having no training. I was a wrestler in high school as well.  | ||
| Tramp |
a shotgun can make a difference, though, in terms of accuracy with the shaky, white-knuckle first-time homicidist. did you shoot many people on the job? Not meant disrespectfully, but as sincere curiosity (Message edited by tramp on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
At close distances, such as home defense, your spray pattern with a shotgun won't be all that wide and in a close combat situation, you don't want a barrel long enough to be able to be taken away from you. Thank God never had to shoot anybody, drew down a bunch on Warrants and a drugged out kid, but never shot anybody. I can tell you this, the training I received and the countless hours of combat course work isn't going to garuntee that I can protect myself, by the muscle memory you get going through the training is going to make you a much more lethal shooter if/when the time came. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
I've seen guys who earned their EIB freeze when faced with fast decisions. you're picking hairs re: shotgun spray pattern- it's still going to be much wider than any handgun's, esp. at 10 yards, or more, esp. with a nice, stubby barrel. Most situations in which homeowners find intruders occur from across rooms and hallways, and even 'blind' firing a shotgun in such a situation is going to increase the K factor over similarly unloading a handgun... you give great advice, regardless- training is better than none. ('muscle memory' and it's attendant, hijacked neology is something for another thread, altogether....something I've argued ad nauseum in snow sports edu. conferences. the term originated in 1960s body building, and pertained to another condition altogether...but people use it now in it's hijacked def., to describe neurophysical conditioning) either way- no bad advice in this thread, still! | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Most situations in which homeowners find intruders occur from across rooms." No, it's about 10ft. Close combat situations occure at 3 yards or less. | ||
| Bads1 |
If you are a bouncer or working security, you don't have that option. The fights come looking for you. If I'm in a fight, it's because I have done everything to avoid it and have not been able to. A bouncer is a joke.... period they have no business putting there hands on you at any point. There job is to tell you to leave thats it. They cannot man handle you in any way. Thats what the police are for also security. A bouncer is nothing but a hired hand. Call the police. The bar has insurance. When they leave give names if you can and a plate number off the car. Let it get handled from there. (Message edited by BadS1 on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
Bads1- I worked the door at many clubs in the 1980s, and I can attest to the mistaken notions of your post. Technically, yes, a bouncer has every right to put his hands on you, if you endanger any guests of the establishment. I notice you follow up with "that's what the police are for also security" ...hate to break the news to you, but a doorman is, in fact, "security". You may want to spend some time at some club doors and maybe share your opinion with the door staff that he's "a joke". When i have been hired to work a door, and someone was endangering the welfare of other guests, it was lawfully incumbent upon me to use whatever means of force the situation might require in order to remove that threat from the club. very simple, very lawful. A simple, well-executed headlock and drag can work wonders, incidentally, and when the perp is ejected onto the street, off premises, with a warning not to return (this is when cameras are great, and why all good clubs have them above the door), his/her return becomes criminal trespass, and the full spectrum of possibilities opens itself to house staff. I can tell you that, in both NY and California, that's the law. | ||
| Tom_b |
actually the laws concerning bouncers vary from state to state. but in most states they can put hands and remove you from premisis. if you are disrupting said business, causing damage, or harming another patron, they can toss you out with reasonable force. outside in the parking lot is another story. no different from a paid security guard protecting a place of business. What kinda places you been going to? trying breaking bad at a casino in vegas. they will ask you leave nicely, then they will toss you in a heartbreat. If the situation is breaking up a fight most of the time there is no other option but to put hands on to stop it. | ||
| Tom_b |
What Tramp said  | ||
| Tramp |
Thanks, tom. the difference between a good doorman and a great doorman is in his proactive attention to the patrons- I used to bounce at nice clubs on Long Island's east end. My strength presented itself in my genuinely affable nature, I'd greet guests as just that, and was (believe it or not) pretty damned happy to see most of 'em- A warm handshake, light embrace, a kiss on the cheeks of ladies went a LONG way in becoming everbody's pal, so when someone would suddenly f*ck up and get into an altercation, and I ( at my mere 5'10 220 # at the time) would approach the situation, the F*ckup would see me as a friend who merely endeavoured to get him outta he spot he got himself into. I would usually be the good guy, would walk him out , have a car waiting to get him home or to the hotel, and, almost invariably, that guest would return and reimburse me the fare...either the next evening or within a week. yes, I cracked a lot of guys who had it coming, and I definitely locked and led guys whose antic warranted same, but I never had too much bad blood, afterward. I genuinely like most folks, and I radiated that in that position, so I kept myself well-employed at that time. later, in the '90s, I found myself working gentlemens' clubs, typically in the capacity, strictly, of security for individual dancers whose spouses shared my affiliations. I am still shocked by how out-of-control a silicon valley tech nerd or a wall st. broker-type could get, in trying to grab dancers' breasts as I escorted them off stage or to their transportation. I couldn't stand these dipsh[ts and i made it clear, after awhile. two totally different door-jobs with two totally different mindsets. Horniness can really make the most passive geek a goddam handful. I was prefer thuggish guido types at normal music-dance clubs, violent, sometimes, but predictable and understanding of 'the house' and it's reg.s Alll in all, i really enjoyed working doors of non-"adult" clubs, nice top-shelf dance clubs were the way to go. i met nice people, made good friends, and never EVER had to put my hand in my pocket when I hit other clubs, as a patron- the other guests already had my drinks backed up. I miss that lifestyle, frankly. (Message edited by tramp on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Bads1 |
Tramp, Sorry but your full of $hit. Do you know what I do??? I guess not. I have a bar and a top five in my city as far as sales. So yes busy. I've been doing this for 12 years. A bouncer is a employee that has no license to touch another person. They do not work for State or city law enforcement nor a licensed and insured Security company. I know how the laws work in Wisconsin. Come to Homecoming I'll show you how its done here. Sorry but here you as a bouncer would get a law suit for any harm as would the Bar.  | ||
| Bads1 |
Little taste of how busy we can get. This was a Custom bike builder,build off.  | ||
| Tramp |
bads1 said: " Sorry but your full of $hit. Do you know what I do??? I guess not. " makes me remember why I stopped participating on this board. You just highlighted your ignorance for all to see. Do you really presume that America's dairyland legislates the entire nation? "your (sic) full of shit" Love the internet tough-talk. REALLY mean-looking pub, there, tough-guy. (Message edited by tramp on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Bads1 |
Ignorance....LOL Thats to funny considering your telling someone how a business by law can be run when that person your telling does it for a living. And theres no tough-talk. I'm not sitting telling everyone one how I man handle patrons. Yeah your a joke. I don't want a mean Pub. Its a very well ran establishment that caters to the customer. We do pretty good. Ok back on topic. Like I said I'm no gun hater. Just don't need it in the house. My pooches will do for me. | ||
| Tramp |
Unreal. you're openly opining that the laws of your state dictate the laws of the other 49. you need to get out more. call me a joke to my face sometime. (Message edited by tramp on May 25, 2008) | ||
| Dbird29 |
I can piss on the wall to the height of 6 feet 6 inches. (a ladder is involved though)  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Roid rage !! It appears some are crying because they can't go around beating up people like in "the good old days" because so many people "carry" in 2008. Cry me a river. Here ya go, maybe this will make ya feel better... (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on May 25, 2008) (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on May 25, 2008) |
