| Author | Message | ||
     Nickcaro |
does anyone know if the Buell folks on the assembly lines are in a union? I got a buddy who is very dedicated to purchasing vehicles that are US, Union made.... | ||
| Xb984r |
no | ||
| Cudajohn |
If the company and it's policies toward the workers are worth a damn, which I think they are, they don't need a Union. Tell your buddy that just because it isn't union doesn't mean the employees are slaves with no bennies. I grew up union and drank the Kool Aid until I realized the UAW ruined GM resulting in the OKC Trailblazer plant closing. Sometimes workers need unions, sometimes they don't. Often times the Unions are over zealous and ruin things for all parties envolved. Your buddy should be more interested in whether the workers are treated fairly rather than if they're union or not. | ||
| Deadduck |
+1 to Cudajohn more times than not, a non-union workforce is a happier workforce. Management treats employees with respect and in turn gets respect back. With the labor laws that we have now days, there is no use for a union, and judging from some of the pictures I saw when the 1125 was being put into production, it looked to me like the Buell employees took great pride in the accomplishments that they had made. And to add to it, there are many examples in recent years, where unions have over demanded the companies that employee them, and in turn forced them into bankruptcy. | ||
| Ustorque |
i am a union worker and for my own reasons i will remain as one. but i've seen unions destroy companies and in my mind to look at the employees of buell they are just fine the way they are. they take pride in their work and they are shown great respect from their higher ups as a result. buell is a fairly small company and if the workers were unhappy they wouldn't have made it as far as they already have. | ||
| Iamike |
Ever since the UAW at Ford went on strike and wore t-shirts that said "I'd rather push a Chevy than drive a Ford", I have never seriously looked at buying a Ford product. The union may have gotten what they wanted at that strike but they cemented in the minds of many Americans that they really don't care about the product that they are building. I get tired of the electrical workers that I work with always complaining about how bad they have it, even though they have some of the best jobs in the area. Maybe they should quit reading the union propaganda that is given to them in their newsletters. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
With the labor laws that we have now days, there is no use for a union That's a farce, at least in the construction industry in my local area. Believe me, many laws aren't being enforced concerning safety, pay and immigration status whether or not there is a union shop on the job sight. However, I gave up worrying about others long ago and do what's in my best interest and to hell with the rest. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I prefer to buy products built by US workers who are not only happy and love their work but are primarily US workers. Union is an option. Your buddy should do the same. "Union first company second" creates inefficiencies and barriers to creating the best product possible. I respect his desire to support American workers. I do not recognize his support of union. They are NOT one and the same. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
If he's looking at buying anything other than the 1125r, then he'll be buying a Buell with a motor made by Union HD employees at the Harley Davidson Capitol Drive Motor Plant. | ||
| Xb9rnutt |
I work at a company that has a union for all the production jobs. Let me tell you I have seen the union get people their jobs back after screwing up time after time and getting fired. To me this just shows how goofy the system is. Simply do your job and you get to keep your job. Don't do your job see ya! I know its some radical thinking.LOL With that being said I do see that some trades need a union. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
shut up with the Union basing already. This crap is getting frickin' old. If you don't like Union's fine. But stop beating a dead horse already. God Damn. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
"Union first company second" creates inefficiencies and barriers to creating the best product possible. I respect his desire to support American workers. I do not recognize his support of union. That's not true and who cares what you support. The question wasn't about you. The Union's have done more to help the workforce of this Country than most of you will ever know. Union or not. Good bye haters. | ||
| Slaughter |
No editorial position. Have him do his own investigation at the UAW/IAM hall. Info is easy to find. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Simply do your job and you get to keep your job." Problem is, even when people do their jobs, and do them well, employers don't like to pay them incrasing wages. How many folks have just simply lost their jobs, just because?? Unions help protect workers. If you don't like it, oh well, but don't bash them for standing up for employees. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Unions brainwash workers life style to the point of: If he looks like a prick, walks like a prick and talks like a prick, he's probably a "hard core" union worker. I'm right in my judgement of people I deal with more often than not. I have many friends that are union workers and they are great people.............only because they are not "hard core' union dudes. There is a difference. Unions have done nothing for me cept cost me money. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Report finds unions help all workers Unions have a substantial impact on the compensation and work lives of both unionized and non-unionized workers, according to a new report from the Economic Policy Institute. The study reviews current data on unions' effect on wages, fringe benefits, total compensation, pay inequality, and workplace protections. Some of the conclusions are: • Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20 percent and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28 percent. • Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree. • Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow. For example, a high school graduate whose workplace is not unionized but whose industry is 25 percent unionized is paid 5 percent more than similar workers in less unionized industries. • The impact of unions on total nonunion wages is almost as large as the impact on total union wages. • The most sweeping advantage for unionized workers is in fringe benefits. Unionized workers are more likely than their nonunionized counterparts to receive paid leave, are approximately 18 percent to 28 percent more likely to have employer-provided health insurance, and are 23 percent to 54 percent more likely to be in employer-provided pension plans. • Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers. They also pay 18 percent lower health care deductibles and a smaller share of the costs for family coverage. In retirement, unionized workers are 24 percent more likely to be covered by health insurance paid for by their employer. • Unionized workers receive better pension plans. Not only are they more likely to have a guaranteed benefit in retirement, their employers contribute 28 percent more toward pensions. • Unionized workers receive 26 percent more vacation time and 14 percent more total paid leave (vacations and holidays). According to the study, unions play a pivotal role both in securing legislated labor protections and rights such as safety and health, overtime, and family/medical leave and in enforcing those rights on the job. Because unionized workers are more informed, they are more likely to benefit from social insurance programs such as unemployment insurance and workers compensation. Unions are thus an intermediary institution that provides a necessary complement to legislated benefits and protections. I love your line about "I have many friends that are Union workers" That's about as stupid as people that use the line "I have black friends so...." Have you personally been in a Union? I will say not all Unions are good. But not all are bad either. I've seen plenty on non unionized pricks in the workforce of this Country that suck their way into keeping their jobs. Now I will leave this thread by saying Enjoy your weekend. Brought to you by Unions. Do a little research before you open your mouth. You can blame the high costs of things on greedy owners, share holders and over paid CEO's .The amount of Union worker in this Country is around 11%. Not enough to drive the price of anything as high as it is now. | ||
| Xb9rnutt |
I agree 100% Just_zip. | ||
| Davegess |
Buell workers have had at least 3 Union organizing drives. The last ended when the Union informed the National Labor Relations Board the day prior to the election that they were withdrawing there attempt. Rumor has it that they would have likely gotten fewer than a dozen votes. One of the previous ended up with pro-union votes being in the the low single digits. I am an old union guy: I have carried cards from several different locals over the years so I am not anti-union but is does not seem that Buell has any need for one. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
"I agree 100% Just_zip" Thanks nutt, but I'm just a troll.....an 89 precentor. It's just so easy to rile up union believers and bible thumpers. It's my sickness................or vice versa?..........  | ||
| Ustorque |
 here is some cold hard facts: local #17 sheet metal worker in NH makes $58.75HR this includes: hourly wage health ins pention annuity average non-union sheet metal worker "FOREMAN" in NH makes: $17-21.00 an hour no benefits. say what you want, the union is not for everyone and it is not required in every area of business, but i know where my money comes from. (Message edited by ustorque on May 11, 2008) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
What's a Big Mac gonna cost when "they" get paid $58.75 an hour? See a problem.....or is OK for them to make minimum wage? Fast food workers have a life to live to the fullest too. On my other hand, I don't shop for union made label. Makes no difference to me, but I try to avoid imports if possible. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The whole pro-union/anti-union "discussion" is largely irrelevant to this thread. Even those of you that are ardently pro-union still ride Buells. Are you saying that this ardently pro-union potential Buell rider shouldn't buy a Buell because the Buell employees have chosen not to belong to a union of their own free will? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
No. The point is stop bashing Union's for the high cost of everything and if people want to purchase union only products, that's their choice. This whole thread was started by asking if Buell employees were union, but as usual, as bunch of asshats highjack it and turn it into a union bashing thread. stick to the point. The answer is no. Buell employees are not union. Leave it at that. I'm union and I have said nothing bashing non union workers. Everyone has to make a living. I'll support American workers, Union or not, but I prefer union made products. | ||
| His_and_her_buells |
Well said rocketsprink. This thread should have died after the first response. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That's not true and who cares what you support. The question wasn't about you. My opinion is just as valuable as yours. I was born with the same model ass hole as you were. I didn't bash unions in the slightest. My point wasn't pro-union or anti-union. My point was that I try to buy goods produced with by American workers every chance I get. I don't make the distinction as to whether those workers are union or not. You seem to have the attitude that non-union workers are somehow "scabs" betraying the rest of the work force. THAT is an erroneous viewpoint shaped principally by union indoctrination and propaganda. How many union drives has my local Nissan plant gone through? All have failed. Don't you think that were the union able to provide them leverage to gain higher incomes and better benefits, the vote would have passed? Are these workers not "real" American workers? I'm not saying that unions don't have their place. You have gotten all huffy for no reason. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Absolutely your opinion is as valid as anyone's. The question was not your opinion on YOUR thoughts of union or non union but rather a simple question of whether or not Buell employees are union. It's a simple one word answer .....no. "You seem to have the attitude that non-union workers are somehow "scabs" betraying the rest of the work force. THAT is an erroneous viewpoint shaped principally by union indoctrination and propaganda." Above is erroneous viewpoint shaped by indoctrination and propaganda by companies that want to keep Unions out so that they can control their employees and let them have no say so in how there jobs progress. Here's one example. The company I work for , the office employees are non union. The secretary has a son that has A.D.D. The insurance the company provided to office employees at x-amount out of their pockets per month plus a $500 per year deductible for the family didn't cover the med's her son need. So, she changed insurance carriers to one that covers her son med's. In the process, it doubled everyone's monthly out of pocket and now their deductible changed to $500 PER PERSON in their family. No checks and balance. BTW, where in any one of my posts do I bash non union workers? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Above is erroneous viewpoint shaped by indoctrination and propaganda by companies that want to keep Unions out so that they can control their employees and let them have no say so in how there jobs progress. I must have missed that meeting. Here's one example. The company I work for , the office employees are non union. The secretary has a son that has A.D.D. The insurance the company provided to office employees at x-amount out of their pockets per month plus a $500 per year deductible for the family didn't cover the med's her son need. So, she changed insurance carriers to one that covers her son med's. In the process, it doubled everyone's monthly out of pocket and now their deductible changed to $500 PER PERSON in their family. No checks and balance. Please explain how a union would have helped this? BTW, where in any one of my posts do I bash non union workers? Where in any one of my posts do I bash union workers? My comment regarding "Union first company second" was in describing what you later characterized in your "not all Unions are good" statement. It's a bad union. Bad unions do create barriers to creating the best product possible because they view the relationship between the workforce and the company ONLY in adversarial terms. Everything is viewed as a zero sum game. Conversely, not all COMPANIES are bad. I'm not a corporate shill. I hope you don't think I am. I don't believe all companies are good. I also don't believe that ALL unions are bad. | ||
| Turk |
To my way of thinking, Buell is obviously a good company to work for as the employees voted three separate times to stay non-union. I don't understand someone not wanting to support those products when the employees decided they were being treated fairly by the company, making a good wage with good benefits. Seems to me like if someone is wanting to support a company that's treating it's workers fairly, that Buell would be one to support with or without a union. Or then again, maybe that's not the point??? | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
well i have never worked in a job that had any thing to do with a union but my grand father and my step dad was or is in the carpenters union. some unions seem to be a a pain in the average consumers pocket or causes to have to buy overseas junk. but in the case of the carpenters union it helps these guys stay with a job as that is a business were the workers float from employer to employer. | ||
| Bombardier |
If they are happy the way things are then so be it. I have been on both sides of the fence and am now Union. In my industry ( Open Cut Coal Mining ) we have a safer work environment than the non- union areas. We also have higher pay and better work conditions. Generally we don't have people who are willing to give it their all though and we have the dead set whingers who would not work a day in their life. Humans are what they are. People become complacent and expect more and more for less effort. Is there a magic medium? Do not know but If the guys/gals at Buell are happy how things are I am happy for them because my bike is a work of art despite its flaws. If it was like your typical Japper it would have been sold ages ago cos I would have become bored with it by now. |
