| Author |
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Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 10:30 pm: | 
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I looked again. There are two failures noted above by folks who ran nothing but the factory lube.
and 7 failures with gear lube.....
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Bluzm2
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 11:31 pm: |
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Both of my failures appear to have been mechanical in nature.
Frayed wires from cold stress.
It appears the new "C" rev stator may take care of that issue.
See my pictures posted in another thread.
After looking at the latest failed stator, it looks like it was a breakdown of the epoxy potting that allowed the wires to shake loose. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:35 pm: |
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I don't know... I think the copper will react with the additives. Not enough to destroy wiring, but I wonder if it is enough to change a pinhole or a hairline crack into a bubble, which then proceeds to a failure. But I really don't know.
I do suspect a non reacting pinhole is a non issue for a stator, and suspect it is fairly hard to epoxy pot a stator and not have a pinhole or crack somewhere... so that just leaves the "reaction makes a bubble" as the plausible missing link.
Now that I can get a factory full synthetic gear oil that I know is right for my primary, and will last 7000 to 10000 miles, that seems the reasonable thing to run. I don't think it is any more expensive the I was paying for M1 Gear Oil anyway... |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 07:33 pm: |
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"After looking at the latest failed stator, it looks like it was a breakdown of the epoxy potting that allowed the wires to shake loose."
That was the nature of my stator failure with M1 gear oil. The failure occured at about 25,000 miles, almost all of which was with M1. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:54 am: |
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The reaction that produces copper sulfide does not produce a bubble, more like a plating/coating. It is not like corrosion. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:59 am: |
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Scott,
If we have any similar failures of stators using factory lube, then it is pretty much statistically implausible to blame stator failures on non-factory lube. Period. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 12:09 pm: |
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I meant it would gradually undermine the bond between the epoxy and the copper, creating an "epoxy bubble".
This was not a technical analysis, it was empirical, from seeing a slight scratch on a painted surface (like my XB exhast can) turn into a line of little paint bubbles as the now exposed metal oxidizes.
I'm not trying to argue facts, this is pure speculation at this point... |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:07 pm: |
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My stator failed and was replaced under warranty. I think I had around 20K on it at the time. Always use Formula+. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 04:10 pm: |
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I lost one too. It was caked with hardened green goo that's in the redline heavy. Switched to sportrans, then to mobil 15w50. Not sure if the green goo caused the problem or not, but it sure looked like it wasn't doing it any good. |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 09:21 am: |
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If we have any similar failures of stators using factory lube, then it is pretty much statistically implausible to blame stator failures on non-factory lube. Period.
Come on Blake, there is no proof that the failures are similar.
Many things on bikes break, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. I would expect the stator to be no different and have some failures regardless of mileage or lube.
I am sure that some of the gear lube failures would have happened anyway. That does not explain away the additional failures with gear lube.
For me, the 1st time we went down this road 2 years ago, there were enough failures with gear lube compared to failures with formula+ or engine oil to keep ME away from it, and to recommend others to stay away from it when they ask.
You? You don't need me to tell you that you can run anything you want.
Did you mention what you are running? I'm going to laugh at your expense if it isn't gear lube! 
Is there evidence that gear lube may lead to failures? Yes
Is there proof? No, but your argument so far is weak and WHY TAKE THE CHANCE WHEN THERE ARE OTHER LUBRICANTS THAT WORK WELL? PERIOD. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 09:42 am: |
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Hey now, I am arguing with Blake, but I like having the discussion. It's an engineer thing... I could care less if *I* am running M1 gear oil, or if *you* are running M1 gear oil, we have a an interesting hypothesis and a curious set of data... I must know the truth! 
(It's a character flaw common among engineers... drives their spouses nuts until something breaks, then it's all sunshine and roses ).
(and I never saw a button I didn't push )
(Message edited by reepicheep on May 10, 2008) |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 09:55 am: |
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Your posts make sense to me Reep. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 02:16 pm: |
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I've had two failures. One with Mobile One gear oil, one with SYN3. Both had the insulation crack and fry on the wires where they come out of the stator windings. Both times the problem would only show itself after the engine built-up considerable heat. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 02:57 pm: |
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Scott,
If we have any similar failures of stators using factory lube, then it is pretty much statistically implausible to blame stator failures on non-factory lube. Period.
On the other hand, if we have evidence that more stators suffer failure with gear lube, then that too may be indicative of gear lube related issues. I've seen no such evidence. A LOT of folks run gear lube in the tranny.
Rick's observations parallel my own and those of more than one H-D mechanic I've spoken to on the issue.
Again, if we have any similar failures of stators using factory lube, then it is pretty much statistically implausible to blame stator failures on non-factory lube. Period. |
Jcbikes
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 03:37 pm: |
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Whats the possibility that stators that fail are just caused by a bad stator from the manufacture and not oil at all! I have almost 21,000 on my 04xb12s with no problems (yet) and have used just plain old 80w90 GL5 gear oil. I have changed both oils at 1,500 miles since new. Transmission shifts very smooth too! |
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