| Author | Message | ||
     Chrisrogers3 |
So yeah, my wife and I are closing on our home that we are selling tomorrow morning and just yesterday we were told that the house we are buying (foreclosure) has a title discrepancy meaning someone (other than the seller) has a $20,000 lien against it. There is now no hope of moving into the new place anytime sooner than a couple months, if at all. So my wife and I as well as our three pets are unexpectedly homeless. To make matters worse, we have drained our savings account to pay for the renovations to the house, and the foreclosure company (HSBC bank) wants to charge us $100 dollars a day for every day after tomorrow that we don’t close. Of course we are fully ready to close, but the seller is not. We will now have to find a place to rent until the situation is resolved, but now the problem is, we have to pay for every expense we incur which doesn’t seem right. Obviously this is the long-short of it all because I don't want to bore you with too many details. So is there anyone else out there that has a similar situation? If so how did things end up? Any suggestions besides a good lawyer or even a good lawyer??? | ||
| Kyrocket |
First and foremost I'd find out who did the title search on the house you want to buy and ream them thoroughly. Any competent para legal should have found that. Next I'd go to the county clerks office and find out who has the lien on it. I can just speak of Ky. law and WI. may be different but here if it's a mechanic's lien they're only good for one year. Find out exactly what kind of lien it is and what kind of interest it's bearing. It could also be some company that buys up past due taxes and is charging ridiculous interest on it. Does HSBC own it now? If it's their property tell them it's their lien. Again in Ky. liens go with the property not with the person. I've had to file 100's of liens against property, most people think it's a joke until they go to sell the property then guess who's laughing? Ask your friends if they've had to have legal help and who they'd suggest, and if you're strapped for cash you might contact legal aid. It will probably take some footwork on your behalf to track them down because they don't always advertise but they're free legal help, couldn't hurt just to talk to them. In my line of work I've found just calling and talking to someone will get you pretty far, let them know the situation and ask them what they can do for you. Hope things work out for you. | ||
| Smokescreen |
I just had the same thing happen to me about two weeks ago. I feel for you and know what you're going through. Smokescreen | ||
| Mikej |
Chris, I had a bunch typed in, but decided it'd be more prudent to just send you a PM, so check your email in a few minutes. | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
Yes HSBC does own the house now, and they are the ones who disclosed yesterday this new found lien. They apparently have internal lawyers that did the original title search when the place was foreclosed on. They said they are taking care of it, but that it could take months to clear this up and continue with the real estate transaction. I did hire a lawyer yesterday that is raping me for $120 an hour so I am really hoping that he can help out because damn at 120 an hour it cuts into the 1125R fund REAL QUICK! | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
Hey Mike, I am at work right now and cant check my other email account. Could you maybe forward the email to crogers@oneil.com Thanks | ||
| Mikej |
Done. Sent from my day account so delete it or reply to my yahoo account if you need to once you check your home email. Hope it helps some, I included a 1-800 that may be of some help as well, hopefully. | ||
| Kyrocket |
Yeah, if they're going to contest the lien it could take awhile. If it was their fault to begin with and they offered up a house that was unfit to sell, title or otherwise you might ask your lawyer about the bank paying your legal fees. You'd most likely have to sue the bank and that will get hairy quicker than the lien getting sorted out. Are you bound by contract on this house, if you are this could probably get you out of it or the bigger question is, is your wife binding you to this house because this is "the one". Lots of houses on the market right now but a foreclosure can be a good deal, I've seen lots of them sell across the street on the court house steps recently for pennies on the dollar. Blast those WV women for taking my money. | ||
| Mikej |
Some of the banks and lenders up here aren't playing by all the R.E. rules nor sticking to the "time is of the essence" clauses in the offer to purchase contracts. Lots of houses are in lender ownership currently. | ||
| Bill0351 |
Any chance you can rent the house you are planning to move into? Bill | ||
| Mikej |
That's probably what the $100/day charge is for, but if so then there should also be an Occupancy Agreement along with the offer to purchase, I think it's Addendum O from the Wisconsin Realtor's Association or from Zip Forms. | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
Already tried the route of the pre-occupancy agreement and the seller turned it down. Dont ask me why, seeing as how I already have the utilities and insurance in my name. | ||
| Rde48 |
I had a similar situation when I was buying my house. I found out two days before closing that the garage that I had thought was on the property I was buying was actually only 2/3 on that property and 1/3 on the property next door. The owner of that other property was the foreclosed party so they were not going to work with the bank to get his old house sold. They tried for about another month to get this easement taken care of but he would not budge. In the end I ended up buying title insurance to cover myself if he ever tells me to remove my garage they will pay to have it removed. I have now been there for alittle over a year and have only talked to him twice. Once he was nice and told me that I could do whatever I wanted on his property. The second time I was at work and my gf called and said he was there trying to move some stuff into the garage. Well to make a long story short I told him to get bent and if he has a problem with that call my attorney. I have not herd from him but I'm sure if I do it will be at the worst possible for me. I'm hoping he will just sell to me someday when I have some cash ready. I don't think they can charge you the $100 a day since they can't provide a clear title. I think you could back out at this point and only loose you earnest money which you could probably get back with an attorney. Good Luck Ryan | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
Well the goal here isnt to back out of the property. I know there are an abundance of houses on the market, but this was the only house after looking for the last year that my wife and I both agreed on. Thanks for all the input thus far guys. The more I learn about buying a foreclosure, the more its making me want to resort to massive amounts of depression meds. | ||
| Jaydub |
The more I learn about buying a foreclosure, the more its making me want to resort to massive amounts of depression meds. not needed - gas can and a book of matches, and a stiff drink! Seriously though, the market has turned the banks into even bigger sharks than they were before - gouge you with a 20 just to make 1 -don't get me started!!!! } | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"There is now no hope of moving into the new place anytime sooner than a couple months, if at all. So my wife and I as well as our three pets are unexpectedly homeless." You can't stipulate that payment of the lien is contingent to sale? If you're giving the seller 100k and he owes a lienholder 20, he makes 80 and the lienholder get's theirs. My best friend just went through this with property in N. Wis. Not possible in KY? | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
Ok here is what I am being told... HSBC had the mortgage for this home. The home was foreclosed on and sold at a sheriff sale where HSBC bought it. At that point there was another lien on the place (someone other than HSBC) but whoever did the title work overlooked this extra lien. So now the bank has to cover their end of the lien, and whoever has this other 20 grand lien. The problem is everything above is speculation because the seller will not disclose even a copy of the title so that my title company can do their own title search. It sounds like HSBC wants to do all the real estate stuff in house but they cant get the chimps trained properly. As far as a stipulation of the lien being fulfilled at the time of sale, that sounds logical, but I am sure that HSBC will want to contest it and that will take time but I will check into that. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Is your financing done through them? You're a buyer trying to close on property, HSBC and/or the title company are on the hook for that lien. Why is this $100.00 a day your issue? Sounds like they're trying to make money on you before you actually close. Here in Wisconsin, you find out about a lien prior to closing, you walk away. But that won't help you find a place to live now. I feel your pain brother, I think you guys should pack up the bike and head to Badness! best of luck. | ||
| Davegess |
Who bought the title insurance for the sale? You or the seller? This would be called out on the paperwork you should get before closing. You offer to purchase should include a provision for the seller to be able to provide a clear title. If they can not you walk away and the deal is done. If yo have a decent offer to purchase that you signed, and hopefully you or your RE professional (or your attorney) provided the offer to purchase and you did not sign one provided by the seller, you should be the position to now say to them "we are not buying this house unless you do this...." My first thought would be, if you can scrape up the $20,000 even if you have to borrow it, is to offer them $30,000 less than the agreed upon price and you will pay the lein. Second, offer to rent the house for half what your mortgage payment would have been for say 3 months and if they don't get the lein cleared by then you walk. $100 a day would put you up in a nice hotel, that is stupid money. Pay the lawyer to do all this, it will cost you a few hundred dollars but a really good attorney might actually get them to pay your costs. Seriously don't do anything without your attorney. They will be worth the money. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I thought it was the seller's responsibility to have the property lien free. When I purchased my place, there were several liens against it and when I closed on the place, the seller didn't get anything because he had already defaulted on the construction loan and the bank owned the property. I second the suggestion of getting a good attorney. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Why is the legal system so slow on these damned deals? It's all on paper someplace(court house). Shouldn't be all that hard to round up the facts and get it all straightened out in a week. But then, what do I know besides common sense and logic. | ||
| Kyrocket |
Ahhh. There you go putting common sense in the equation. You have to, by law, give someone an X amount of time to 1: respond to said lien. 2: Pay said lien. 3:contest said lien and in this situation who knows what else. There are several ways this can go down at this point. In my experience the seller can pay the lien or work it into the deal where the buyer can take care of it and just subtract it from the sell price. Rest assured the bank is going to try and work it where they come out best, money is their business and they are good at what they do. There is probably some mortgage insurance in play somewhere here unless the former owner had 20% down which is unlikely. It's a whole other debate about how this market got in the condition it's in to begin with. IF it were me I'd strongly consider walking away but I am also married and we looked for over a year before we found our house and you will have to live with those implications 'til death do you part. Just do what I do when dealing with these kinds of things, remember this too shall pass. In a year or two this will be one of those stories you'll be telling your friends, "You'll never believe this crap..." but I know that's little comfort right now. I'm currently involved with a local woman who has been giving my personal information to a collection agency and just saw in the paper where she embezzled 100K from a local church. To hear her tell it she was only turned in because of her race, never mind the 100K. Sheeeesh. | ||
| Mikej |
Contractors have six months to file a lien against a property. Sometimes properties are sold once or twice within this timeframe, this is what title insurance and gap insurance is all about, to protect the buyer against these surprises. We don't know what the lien is for, who ordered the work the lien is for, if the work was completed, if the lien is legitimate, and a whole lot of other unknowns. |
