| Author |
Message |
    
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 05:13 pm: | 
|
it IS all about money . . . . .. they're in business, fer goodness sake, as am I, and Dyna (who I know), and likely all of us working for a living folks . . . ..
having operted in corporate environments for a bit longer than I'd like, getting ideas through committees is tougher than hardened steel . . . it's tough to convince a group that has posted record earnings for years and years that things would be even better if they changed stuff . . . . .it's tought to convince em cuz it's tough to prove . . . . and that's a GOOD thing if you're a stockhold, but less than good if you're a Buell rider |
Darthane
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 05:47 pm: |
|
Mikej,
What are you coming into our neck of the woods (Detroit) for?
Bryan |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 09:26 pm: |
|
stubby said....That's the single strongest memory I have of Sturgis... all these guys and all these bikes all look the same.
...I'm sure the Harley guys think the same thing when they see my Buell group on a ride. Everybody on a the same kinda bike, in a Joe Rocket Jacket, wearing a helmet, riding way too fast...
I dress the same way on my Harley, too.
01 HD Sportster 27,000 miles
03 Buell Firebolt 8,600 miles |
Americanrice
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:14 pm: |
|
Part of the low mileage argument is true. As someone said above, sportbikes as a whole are going to have less miles than cruisers as a whole. I know plenty of people that hop on their Harleys and ride across the country (or at least half way) and back. I can't think of anyone that I personally know that has done that on their sportbike. I know that I won't be doing it on the Firebolt. It is just different.
My local Buell dealership (Century HD/Buell in Medina, OH.) is the #2 dealership in the country for Buell sales. My best friend happens to be the Buell tech there and he loves it. He actually has the most seniority and chose to be the Buell tech. He had a Firebolt (until he totalled it) and is just fascinated by the Buells. The attitude there towards Buells is great and maybe that has something to do with their success. I go out and ride with alot of the employees there who own Buells as well as Harleys.
I would love to own a V-Rod but I would never trade my Buell for it or any other bike. I just like to be different and that is why the Buell suites me so well. There is just nothing else out there with the looks, sound, handling, uniqueness, or ability to stir up contraversy like a Buell. That's why most of us ride them , we were cut from a different mold!
 |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:27 pm: |
|
it IS all about money
That's why I wonder WHY they would wanna shoot themselves in the foot. I want my company to succeed, ALL of it...
WHY don't they? |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:39 pm: |
|
Hmmmmm
Tilley is four hours north...
Hmmmm
 |
Jon
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 12:58 am: |
|
Interesting thread. I skipped to the end to post, but the Union, non-union thing is really intersting. Especially since now Buell is making the engine for the Harley Sportsters. Hmmm.
|
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 01:02 am: |
|
Buell is not making them Jon. Buell has never made their own motors. Always bought them from harley. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 05:08 am: |
|
>>>Always bought them from harley SOMEBODY ELSE. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 09:01 am: |
|
Heh heh heh, gotta love cryptic hints and indirect insinuations. You can say a whole lot without saying anything at all.
Darthane/Bryan,
Heading over on work related business. Used to get there monthly, now it's more like rarely in more than a year. Going to a heated meeting, could get interesting, briefcase full of counter defenses. All paperwork mostly, and semantics, and prodedures, and data integrity and interpretation and guidelines. Stuff like that and whatnot. Usually have a few hours to kill and like to visit the used bookstore in Farmington Hills or one of the Buell/Harley dealerships on the way back to the airport. This trip will be with the boss and the boss's boss, and their heirarchy as well. Gonna have a resolution one way or another.  Like I said, should be interesting.
And to think I'm just a grunt around here.
|
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:37 pm: |
|
RW-750s had engines that Buell made. Admittedly these engines originated somewhere else, but Buell bought all the tooling, redesigned the motors to make them work and cast and machined parts and put them together. I think this counts that Buell started by making their own motors. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 12:28 am: |
|
Barry Hart, the designer of the Barton 750, might not agree with that statement. But then again you could say that Suzuki designed the RW750 motor couldn't you, given that that's what Hart basically copied didn't he?
Rocket  |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 06:21 am: |
|
>>>I think this counts that Buell started by making their own motors.
I'd be willing to concede that.
I consider it a gift or sorts, from what I know about the power characteristics of the Barton motor, that I've never had the opportunity to ride one.
 |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 09:29 am: |
|
Glitch . . . . ah, now I get it (I'm a little slow after that last Mothers of Invention Concert) . . .. .
the company that you want to succeed IS succeeding . . . and very nicely, too, thank you very much . . .. .
to improve their ability to meet YOUR needs (and mine, as a matter of fact), you would like to see some changes made (me too!) . . . you think that these changes would increases sales and profitability (me too) . . ..
but, that all said, neither of us are responsible to the employees and stockholders that presently reap the rewards of the present state . . . at the base of most corporations is their TRUE mantra (in spite of vision and mission statements, cards with corporate values printed on them, and happy-face bearing memoes from HR) . . .that mantra is . . .
Change is Bad
We Fear Change
|
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 09:56 am: |
|
Actually, many corporations don't fear change, they just want it proven valid before they commit to it. Kind of hard to sell 1,000 units to prove a product in the market when you can't get approval for prototype tooling. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 10:07 am: |
|
MikeJ . . .. . you put it better . . . .thanks |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 10:37 am: |
|
Not better, just different, same thing.
Many people don't want to be held accountable for errors.
Many managers overly chastise employees for making mistakes.
Doo-doo runs downhill.
Occaisionally it hits a fan and gets sprayed everywhere, this is often when upper management suddenly decides that a little change might be good sometimes.
I look at Buell as the lead scout for a larger calvary. Always looking for new markets and testing technology and manufacturing options. Once the trail is clear or at least has the dangers identified the main group breaks camp and forges ahead. And the scout/Buell takes off again to chart new lands and market terrotories.
I see WillieG and the Chromites (sounds like a band) as the Generals and Leutenants (sp?) sitting back in the fort reading reports and going to parties and large gatherings surrounded by their supporters. And while Erik also has some access to the Fort, he also gets to go ride in Germany and Austrailia, and occaisionally gets to drag a footpeg or two with the (shall we say) more exhuberant class of rider at times.
How does a corporation get new riders into the fold that are either intimidated by large bikes, or are of such a stature that the larger bikes are just too ungainly? Build a thumper.
How does a corporation gradually break out of the cruiser mindset and expand their customer base in initial small increments? Merge with a former road racer and former associate.
I believe the world will change in two weeks or so. How it changes is yet to be seen. The Harley 95th was fairly big. The 100th is fairly huge. But how big of a party can one have for the 105th? Change is a comin', but in what ultimate direction is yet to be known.
Next Spring's annual sales and corporate reports should be extremely interesting in Harleyville. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 01:05 pm: |
|
MikeJ
as our philosypher poet, you've hit the nail on the head, once again . . . .. . I hope Juneau Ave has some pretty outrageous stuff in the wings, or there may be a slump right after the 100th model year is over . . . ..
factor in the economy, upcoming elections, the Terminator being the Governor of Cali, and it's a huge crap shoot . . .. . personnaly, I thinkin the decision to use Buell as a recon element is likely one of the smartest things H-D's ever done |
Davegess
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 03:39 pm: |
|
Rocket, Barry did indeed start with a Suzuki engine but i think it is fair to say that he designed the Barton motor, lots of difference between it and the Suzuki.
What Erik did was not design a motor but complete the developement of the thing. It needed a lot of completing! Not ot slam Barry Hart, he had no money and no facilities to finish the job, Erik did that for him.
The motor in the First production RW was built by Buell. Some of the parts have been purchased form hart but even those needed to be machined beofre they could be put together.
Buell built several complete engine, I don't know exactly how many, One is now in the display race bike and was originally used by a car racer. it is 850 cc I think. There was at least one other that went to the same car racer.
Perhaps the most sucessful RW750 engine is listed as a Barton in the Isle Of Man record books where Nigel Rolleson won a sidecar TT with it. Where all the parts from that engine came from I cannot say. It certainly contained a lot of the redesigned parts that Erik made.
So I think it is fair to say that buell has either made their won engine or purchased them from HD
Dave |
Glitch
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 04:21 pm: |
|
Change is Bad
We Fear Change
If I had that attitude I would be out of work.
I'm just used to seeing dynamic and sweeping change happen on a regular basis.
I wonder what would happen if Coca-Cola treated Minute Maid this way... |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 05:02 pm: |
|
many companies move very slowly . . . .. IT groups tend to move a big more rapidly . . . . in the recent past, Coke has been pretty light on it's feet, but I would imagine that lots of examples of analysis paralysis still exist . . . .
ya gotta remember that most orange juice consumers are not a passionate about, nor as knowledgeable about orange juice as Buellers are about Buells |
Tripper
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 05:44 pm: |
|
Want some Frozen Coke?
he said to mr Burger King...
|
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 10:35 pm: |
|
Thanks Dave. I believe Erik himself quoted figures of 165HP for the Barton. One thing's for sure, it had a big bang!
Rocket |
Glitch
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:26 am: |
|
Want some Frozen Coke?
 |
Glitch
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:58 pm: |
|
ya gotta remember that most orange juice consumers are not a passionate about, nor as knowledgeable about orange juice as Buellers are about Buells
True, but you've missed my point.
What I don't understand is why Harley tolerates this behavior. If a distributor was to try to kill a brand because it wasn't (in their view) Coke, Coke would set them straight, or set them loose, and find someone that would promote the brand Coke wanted promoted,the way Coke wants it promoted. I do not see how Harley can sit back and watch a division of their's be sabotaged by dealers, service reps, and mechanics. You'd think it'd be "get on board with the program or go away." I may feel different if Buell was truly on their own ie: Buell dealerships. But they insist that Buell be sold at HD dealerships, and if you're a HD dealership you're a Buell dealership. I've only heard of a couple of exceptions to this rule. So why does HD let this happen? |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:05 pm: |
|
Glitch . . .I think I've understood (but then, I kept feeling that way in school, too) . . . .
let's not talk about the differences in distributing durable goods and consumer products . . .they are vast, and I'm sure you understand them as well, or better, than I.
the choice of words is important . . . .I doubt very seriously if anyone is trying to "sabotage" Buell . . . .they may be doing so through inattention, inactivity, bloody-mindedness, and ignorance, but I doubt if any dealer owner, salesperson, or tech wakes up in the morning and sez "I think I'll foul up Buell today."
H-D dealers, often, have very little in common with other motorcycle dealers . . . .H-D's marketing plan has assured that . . . that, and their place in the market for the last couple of decades assures them that they can make more revenue, and margin, but taking orders for Harley's than they can by selling Buells . . . we've all seen dealers get into Buell (voluntarily), and then loose what little enthusiasm they had when they realized that it's a market they know nothing about, aren't particularly interested in learning about, and, if they spend the effort to learn, they'll LOOSE money (cuz they coulda been talking orders for H-Ds) . . . can you imagine (fill in the blank here) H-D dealer trying to compete against the local Honda Suzuki Kawasaki Yamaha BWM dealerships? not much of a contest, I'm thinking.
blanket apologies to those few dealerships that DO sell products, as opposed to taking orders
nowhere does it say that if you're an H-D dealership you're also a Buell dealership . . . . . there are many H-D shops with no Buell presence at all.
it all boils down to change . . . . .they feel their doing fine . . . .why change, and potentially risk loosing money (especilly when they just bought a new building, remodeled the shop, and hired a new staff)
I'm sure H-D guidelines are every bit as tightly controlled as Coke's . . . H-D, however, is unlikely to start playing hardball regarding Buell until they feel it is in their best interests to do so, and, today, they clearly don't.
Let's watch closely as post-100th reality settles onto the H-D scene . . . .they may have trouble taking orders in a couple of years, and have to start selling all products, H-Ds as well as Buells . .. . . .that, I believe, would be very healthy for H-D, the company . . . not so heallthy for some dealers, sadly. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:50 am: |
|
Thanks Bomber, that makes some sense... |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:01 am: |
|
I predict that in the next couple years, the "Buell guy or gal" is going to be the most valuable salesperson in the dealership. We still know how to actually SELL and WORK!
Of course by then, with all the Buells we are selling now, I may not have time to sell HDs anymore.
Ride to the edge!
Dave
Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:57 am: |
|
Daves . . .big grin!
Glitch . . . . interesting, and enjoyable conversation . . . . I talk to a number of folks who have gone to see about Buells who say things like, "that's not a motorcycle dealership!" after going to an H-D/Buell shop . . . . although Buell uses the tag line, "different in every sense," it's actually, I believe, H-D that's different . . .there are motorcycle dealerships, and then there are H-D dealerships . . .. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:32 am: |
|
I may not have time to sell HDs anymore.
We still know how to actually SELL and WORK!
Trend setter!
there are motorcycle dealerships, and then there are H-D dealerships
How true... |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 03:23 pm: |
|
quote:Original URL: http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/harley100/aug03/163152.asp
Motorcycle sales climb again in July
Analyst expects Harley to outperform industry
By RICK BARRETT
rbarrett@journalsentinel.com
Last Updated: Aug. 18, 2003
|
|
