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Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:34 pm: | 
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find the bloody box, paint the window black 
Big Brother coming to a city near you soon. |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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I agree with what you all are saying.
What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
Why do you have to prove that it wasn't you on the bike or in the car?
Isn't the onus on them to prove it WAS you?
Isn't there some law against "Electronic Surveillance without probable cause"? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:11 pm: |
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Traffic/intersection red light cameras, a great tool to use against tailgators. 
Un-manned radar cameras on rural roadways, a great tool to use against a squid who just won't take a no-thanks and keeps pestering you to race him. 
Red light intersection cameras and un-manned radar cameras, just further attempts at total control of remaining freedoms. Does the good outweigh the bad? |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:19 pm: |
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Scott... it's easy... they just modify the laws to make those damned things possible.
In the UK where those things are like mushrooms after a rainstorm, the bikers there have all learned to wheelie through intersections if the light is about to change.
I'm also starting to understand why so many custom choppers have the license plate hanging sideways off the left side of the frame where it's hidden by the wheel on the right... |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:19 pm: |
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Well, you can ask for a court date. However, you are then responsible for "Costs of court". I'm pretty sure you would have a difficult time convincing the judge that wasn't you on your bike and you didn't know who it was. |
Sleez
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:20 pm: |
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don't flame me!!!
i was involved in setting up some freeway cameras/computer systems/digital trackers in holland that catch speeders. the program cost something like 3 mil to install and paid for itself in fines the first year of use! |
Sleez
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:38 pm: |
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here is the map of the section we did;
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=h olland&ie=UTF8&ll=52.168108,4.989746&spn=0.003935, 0.009409&t=h&z=17&om=0
see the big square building at the right of the freeway? (A2) that's the hotel i stayed at. if you look at the freeway adjacent to the hotel you can see the first gantry we put cameras on, and if you follow the freeway south, you can see the other two gantrys. fun project i was there for two months in 96, nov and dec....freekin' cold!!! |
Borrowedbike
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 01:44 pm: |
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OK, So I'll be pretty unpopular, but who cares if it's a cop or a camera?
If I break the law, I understand I'm risking a ticket. Nuff said. If I get one, I'll pay it. Seriously, driving is a right that can be lost due to a failure to conform to the laws that are written for "the common welfare". (Safety and the flow of traffic. Think about it, whats the purpose of a traffic signal? Safety or the flow of traffic?)
Who cares if I EARN a ticket... |
Hattori_hanzo
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 02:30 pm: |
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Got the photo/radar on the 101 freeway here in AZ. It's on a couple of stretches of freeway in Scottsdale. One is on an overpass at Scottsdale Rd and the 101. It's funny to be sitting at the stoplight underneath it and see the flash when the camera takes the picture. The other thing is there is a sign a 1/4 mile away WARNING you that you are entering a photo radar monitored stretch of road and it STILL busts people left and right.
On another semi-related note, Danica Patrick lives in Scottsdale and recently got a speeding ticket. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 04:36 pm: |
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My only beef is that it takes the human element out of the equation... An officer on scene can't apply judgement. The law is a fairly blunt instrument, and the law as applied by a machine makes it even blunter.
If a cop gives me a ticket for going 45 in a 35 zone near a busy residential neighborhood, then good for him. He is serving the public interest. If a machine gives me a ticket for 67 in a 55 zone on an open road on a clear day with perfect visibility and no car in sight in any direction, then thats kind of stupid.
I wish police would spend more time ticketing tailgaiters then speeders... tailgaiters are a much greater threat... Has anyone ever heard of somebody getting a "failure to maintain assured clear distance" in cases where there was no accident? |
Hammer71
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 04:54 pm: |
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I wish police would spend more time ticketing tailgaiters then speeders... tailgaiters are a much greater threat... Has anyone ever heard of somebody getting a "failure to maintain assured clear distance" in cases where there was no accident?
Yup, wrote one two days ago. |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 05:15 pm: |
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I'm pretty sure you would have a difficult time convincing the judge that wasn't you on your bike and you didn't know who it was.
My point was they should have to prove it was me and I am innocent until they do....A cop on the scene could positively identify me as the person on the bike.....
OK, So I'll be pretty unpopular, but who cares if it's a cop or a camera?
The purpose of a LEO is to protect the public. He or she can do so by their mere presence, writing tickets or issuing warnings is up to their professional discretion.
The purpose of the camera is to collect revenue and it does so by denying me my rights...
I wish police would spend more time ticketing tailgaiters then speeders...
have to give you props Hammer, if I were a LEO I would spend my time ticketing dangerous driving not minor infractions...
(Message edited by scott_in_nh on January 30, 2008) |
Phat_j
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 06:26 pm: |
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i used to live in arizona, and them cameras on and around the 101 will always take 2 pictures one of the plate, and one of the driver..... i was informed when i had to go to traffic school (by the instructor) that if they didnt have the picture of your face you could just say it wasnt you, they would ASK who it was, but you didnt have to tell them...... so your laws may very but in az, you can definatly get away from that ticket |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 08:38 pm: |
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Sweet! Thanks Hammer! |
Hammer71
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 09:01 pm: |
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As a LEO I have no use for the camera system. I'm sure there will be case law on it in the future but for now we are all screwed. I have a nice pic of me blowing through a red light while enroute to a SWAT call out after an Officer was in a running gun battle in our fine city. ( Dead badguy in street and riots starting). Once called I'm officially on duty and hence no vehicle and traffic laws apply as long as safety is not an issue. To no avail 50 bucks fine.
In some areas I think police officers have nothing better to do than to screw with the public for petty crap, then walk around as if you owe them something. Those I'm afraid are all too common. |
Nevrenuf
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 09:46 pm: |
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props to ya hammer. of course one of the guys i work with said his sister got a ticket by a state trooper for doing 1 mile over the speed limit here in greenville sc. he told her that their not going to tolerate any speed over the limit. that is getting petty. and who's gonna police the police if their going over the limit in a non emergency sitution. |
T9r
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 09:47 pm: |
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Don, looks like you were standing still in the photo.
I've seen so many tractor trailers speeding down the highways and that really irritates me.
Maybe there is something to the license plate relocation. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 10:14 pm: |
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They could at least set up the camera to get better shots... maybe at a nice turn. Then you get a poster for your $40. Kinda like killboy at deals gap ;) |
Borrowedbike
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 10:20 am: |
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Hammer. Thank you. In Beaverton OR we have a number we can call to report "Agressive Drivers" Give em the plate, they investigate. No tickets, but an interview. Repeat offenders, can you say targeted enforcement?
Scott, Exactly what right is a camera denying you? |
Hattori_hanzo
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 01:04 pm: |
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I was on my drive home on the 101 freeway last night when I saw a SUV parked ahead in the center median. I was thinkin', "Bummer place to break down...right next to the fast lane..." when all of a sudden I saw a FLASH. Turns out it was a highway patrol Jeep Cherokee equipped with photo radar! Turns out I was feeling sorry for the wrong guy, I should've been thinkin',"Bummer for the dude in the Accord for keeping up with the flow of traffic!" |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 02:48 pm: |
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Timing is everything
Link to MSNBC story on this subject - with focus in Montgomery County, Maryland!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22931160#2 2931160 |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 02:55 pm: |
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Most LEOs I know say something to the effect of "My stop, my discretion" as to whether they actually issue a ticket. To me, that's the loss. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 03:57 pm: |
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What rights do you lose? The camera is judge, jury and executioner, that's what! It is also placing flesh and blood policemen out of work in a move that has NOTHING to do with promoting public safety and everything to do with raising revenue. So human beings are losing their right to gainful employment so some corrupt politician can afford to put up his mistress in better digs.
HOWZZAT?? |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 06:09 pm: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIHX2jiq840 |
Borrowedbike
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 06:35 pm: |
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Jaimec,
While I hate getting tickets as much as anyone, you can fight it in court just the same way you can fight a personaly provided ticket, so Judge and Jury arguments dont hold...
Now, execututioner. Two answers. One) Exactly how fast are you going??? Two) and more serious, Im a lot of cases us sport bike riders are our OWN executioners, if the cameras make us slow down (as they will on roads we aren't 100% familiar with) isnt that enhancin our safety? I for one have never seen a camera on some twisty, rarely travled backroad. I have seen them at limit sight intersections, school zones and a few major roads thay are frequently used to bypass highways. none of which are places I chose to play in... |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 06:51 pm: |
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Scott, Exactly what right is a camera denying you?
I have the right to innocence until proven guilty - DENIED. Instead of them proving it is me by professional witness, the LEO, I would have to prove that it wasn't me.
I have the right to face my accuser - DENIED.
What if you honestly believed you were not speeding how do you challenge a machine?
What if you are taking an injured child or your pregnant wife to the hospital? Sorry, pay the fine chump......
I'm no lawyer, but I believe that it is against the law to use electronic surveillance against me without a court order. This is like having your e-mail intercepted because a government computer picks up certain words or phrases or having government or police randomly listening in on peoples cell phone calls hoping to catch somebody up to no good. Sorry not to me, not without a court order - it isn't constitutional and shouldn't be happening in America or anyplace else.
When an officer uses radar he 1st has reason to believe you are speeding, then confirms it with a device, then confirms who is driving and then uses his discretion as to what to do about it including escorting you and you wife to the hospital.
I have a great driving record, and if/when caught I hope for the best, but take my lumps. This isn't about not getting a ticket, it is about my rights. |
Teddagreek
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 07:06 pm: |
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All this is revenue generation...
That being said it would be cool to wheelie through and get the picture sent to you...
I'd Frame it.. |
Buellerandy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 07:08 pm: |
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in a yellow speedo with a smiley face on your posterior. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 07:16 pm: |
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Borrowed Bike: And how many people do you know who've successfully fought and won a camera speed fine??
They DON'T SLOW PEOPLE DOWN! They only collect revenue from people who SPEED!
If you want to slow people down, PUT A POLICEMAN THERE! IN PLAIN SIGHT! A hidden camera doesn't slow anyone down. It only tickets them after the fact. |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 08:39 pm: |
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Check this out
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/340543/alpr_license_ plates/ |
Hammer71
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 08:44 pm: |
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We have a car with that system in it. Unreal the things that it does. |
Bad_karma
| | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 01:34 am: |
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Those that engineer our speed limits in the cry of safety will have to reduce the speed limit to 25 mph in order to end deaths. But the speed limits are engineered for cars and pickups. The advantages of the motorcycle's ability's are being ignored in favor of monies. You want me to unconditionally comply you are going to have to provide acceptable laws. You know that bull shit about the peoples rights and all.
Joe |
Borrowedbike
| | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 12:14 pm: |
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Well I knew I'd be unpopular...
Personaly (I respect each of you has your own opinion) I dont feel my rights are being violated by these.
I disagree that live officers slow people down, they DO slow people down for a short period of time when the see the car, but just speed up again later. The intent is to get people NOT TO SPEED, for our safety. Bad Karma is right a motercycle has advantages that should allow it to go faster than a car form a manuverability standpoint, but the results of a cloision are much worse... So therefore the speedlimits are appropriate...
JMHO... |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 12:45 pm: |
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Cam trailers suck, planes are worse. We do have prop planes here that enforce traffic violations  , I got caught by one of these when I was 20. I was running a VW with a Porsche 2.0 motor against a Corvette down the back side of the local mountain range. It was not a pretty ticket, the guy in his Corvette, lost his car, his license and did some time. (The judge didnt believe that a VW bug would do 130! so I got to keep the car, license, and no time, but it was a hell of a fine) http://www.wsp.wa.gov/about/sod.htm
Lesson to the story? Spend more time OFF Road |
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