| Author | Message | ||
     Bykergeek |
I see the new belt system referred to as a 14mm tooth pitch. What is the pitch of the original XB belt? Assuming the new ratios compensate for the new 1.5:1 primary drive ratio, would fitting the new final drive parts to an 03 XB give you an approx. 1.68:1.5 (112%) overdrive ratio and better top speed (for the same given given rpm) ? | ||
| Court |
>>>What is the pitch of the original XB belt? 11mm | ||
| Timbo |
Will the new belts fit the 9's with a new sprocket and pully? Might be worth doing. I'm thinking the belt guards would need to be replaced too. Timbo | ||
| Two_buells |
new supplier also, Goodyear Hibrex Belts | ||
| Crusty |
If you put a chain on it, you can ride down dirt roads without having to worry. | ||
| Blake |
If you leave the belt on it you don't have to spend a fortune for an new swingarm or its modification and you don't need to keep lubricating the chain and washing the coal black dirty flingings off you, your clothes, and the bike. When it comes to chain or belt for a street bike, I just cannot see the advantage ever tipping in favor of a chain... unless you ride on dirt/gravel roads a LOT. Kudos to Buell for improving the durability of XBs' the drive belt. Three cheers for Good Year. | ||
| Crusty |
I have never broken a chain in my entire life on a motorcycle. I have broken 3 belts and had the teeth ripped off another. If you buy a good quality O-ring chain, you no more have to lube it than you need to apply belt dressing to your drive belt. I also don't get coal black dirty flingings from an O-ring chain. My last belt broke after I rode over 100 yards of city street that was torn up for sewer construction. A friend of mine has an independent repair shop. His comment on belts is that profilers prefer belts, while riders convert to chains. There's nothing quite like being 600 miles from home with a broken belt on a Sunday afternoon. Belt drive was surpassed in the teens. Harley should have left it that way. | ||
| Anonymous |
If you have the new belt you will be able to ride down dirt roads without much risk. They are tough. You can ride home with a big hole blown in them by a rock. BTW, the old belt was 11mm. | ||
| Crusty |
O-ring chains are tougher, cost less and are a lot easier to change. Why don't race bikes use belts? | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I am with Crusty, The belt drive is the Achilles Heel of the Buell World!!!!!!! The first belt snapped at 21000km and it was torn in many different places. The second belt snapped about three days ago approximately 4000km later. Road Construction/Re-Surfacing going on here too. BELTS SUCK $380.00 for the belt and about 4 hrs just to put it on. If you really want an opinion on the 14mm belt then send me one with all the pulleys, I will put it on my 98 S1 and see how long it will last. Personally, I'd love to see a hole punctured in the belt and last more than 10km. A new chain is going on the S1 this week and I will not be left stranded by the failure of a belt anymore!!!! | ||
| Prof_stack |
Harley knows what they are doing. I've got a rock stuck in the middle of the belt on my Electra-Glide. It sticks out from the belt, looking like a bubble. It's been there for 10 years at least. The shop has seen it and told me not to worry. I haven't. But, back to the XB's, will the new 14mm thick belt replace the 11mm belt on my '03 when its time to replace it at 15k miles? | ||
| Aaron |
I live on a dirt road and I've never hurt a belt. Chains suck. On street bikes. | ||
| Peter |
I rode over 200 dirt miles on an FXR with a belt. At the end of that road, I had two holes and 17 teeth missing from it. I rode it another 1500 miles home, and then replaced it with a chain. In Australia, a spare link is a whole lot easier to carry than a spare belt. | ||
| Dynarider |
55,000 miles on my belt & it still looks like new. Course I also go out of my way to avoid gravel & dirt roads as much as possible. Now I probably just jinxed myself & it will break tomorrow. On the X1 its real ez to swap, but the Dyna is a pain. | ||
| Bykergeek |
Thanks for the info guys.. I like the 0 maintenance belt myself. What I see is a much lower perception of *trust* in a belt vs a chain. Most riders have never seen a broken chain. Has the replacement interval on the 11mm XB belts been upped to 25k miles? I thought I saw a bulletin mentioning that. | ||
| Blake |
Crusty, I race using a belt. I know two other Buell racers who do as well. None of us has seen a failure. As ridiculously easy as it is to change the belts on the new Buells, I think it is silly to convert to a chain for street use. O-rings or not, no chain is going to last long without being lubricated. I do agree that it sucks what all us M2, S2, S1, and S3 riders would need to suffer through to replace a belt. I'm dreading the day. For on the road, there is a repair/splice kit for a broken belt. Your lifters might fail too, gonna replace them with solids? And that darn electronic ignition can go out on ya, better put some points and condensers in there. Get rid of the electric start and mount a kicker (actually I think that would be kinda cool). How many cars run chains on their water-pump or accessory drives? How many chains do you running the blowers on top fuel cars? Belts are superior. The new Buells have taken extra measures to protect against debris. You've had some very bad luck. I don't blame you for switching to a chain. But don't indict the belt as an inferior mechanism. It isn't. Today's belts are light years ahead of their early 1900's ancestors. Chains have been around a long time too. So have piston engines. Got anything else you would like to indict based merely upon its lengthy ancestry? The AMA Racing has been around a while, while the newer FUSA is much more progressive...  | ||
| Peter |
Just found a pic of that ride....   | ||
| Crusty |
Blake, comparing a fragile rubber belt to a hydraulic lifter is on a par with comparing a car with a motorcycle. I'm sure that the new belts are better and stronger than the old belts. In a sterile environment, they probably are better. However, I ride in the real world. That includes Dirt roads, gravel parking lots and construction zones. With the new belts, if I get a stone caught between the belt and sprocket, it will ONLY punch a hole in the belt; it won't snap it.(That was said about the previous belts,BTW) Then, when I get home, I can happily go down to my dealer and buy a replacement for about triple the price of an O-ring chain. The belt I just replaced 2 weeks ago on my M2 cost $175.00 (priced at 3 different dealerships).I don't shun or fear new technology. I loved belts until my own personal experience proved to me that they are impractical, fragile and extremely overpriced. BTW, Harley - Davidson has been around a while, while the newer Honda is much more progressive, too. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I think the belt is the way to go, IF - we lived in a perfect environment where there was no road construction debris, dirt roads to cross at times and other miscellaneous items to pick up and have the pulleys CHEW through the belt. IF - I did not have to strap the motor/swingarm/rear wheel section to a bike lift and practically remove the frame from the other assembly which takes about 4 hours and a lot of swearing on belts. Quite frankly I don't trust belts anymore which is what Bykergeek mentioned in an earlier post. If I am on my way to Wisconsin in August and the belt breaks somewhere on Highway 401 in Ontario its a hell of a lot easier for me to carry spare links than a belt and I am up and running again in 15 minutes compared to 4 hrs. Had the S1 been designed for a quick belt replacement I would probably put another one on and carry a spare belt when I made long trips. I am fitting a chain this week as soon as the parts arrive. | ||
| Elvis |
Get rid of the electric start and mount a kicker (actually I think that would be kinda cool). Yes!!!! Don't lose the electric start, but add a kick starter. I remember being a bit nervous the first time I bought a bike with only electric start, but I told myself: "They wouldn't eliminate the kick-start unless they were absolutely sure it would work. After all, these Japanese engineers create amazingly reliable bikes, right?" WRONG! I've lost count of how many times I've had trouble starting a perfectly good engine (that was just a little cold) with a perfectly good battery (that was just a little cold). How many of you have experienced that sickening feeling when you're close, but the battery is just getting weaker and weaker with each crank? I can't think of any other single problem that has stuck me more times on more varieties of different bikes than this. I've gotten obsessive with my battery charger, but who wants to deal with that kind of maintenance when a simple kick-start could solve the problem? And all that doesn't even address the fact that some of us old-timers can't get over feeling like we're riding a damn Vespa or something everytime we push that starter button. I'd say if identical bikes were sitting side by side, one with a kick-start and one without, I'd be willing to pay at least $500 for that feature. You want the most reliable, low maintenance bike on the market today? Add a kick starter. edited by elvis on July 21, 2003 | ||
| Bomber |
I worked in the material handling industry for a while, and know that belts can survive really awful conditions . . . they can also fail seemingly without any reason whatsoever (note the word seemingly, please) . . . the user and installer can be as careful as possible, but if some ham-fisted git anywhere in the supply chain twisted the belt, bent it, or otherwise mis-handled it, it's life is severely limited the problem is that there will not be any sign of this past abuse until it lets go more and more bikes are becoming more and more difficult to work on -- it seems that ease of maintenance is not a primary design criteria (although the rest of my Buell is extremely easy to maintain) . . . with more and more riders (in general) leaving maintenance and repair to the dealers, this probobly isn't affecting sales at all a mounting system like the X1 would have me perfectly happy with the belt on my M2 (I understand that the bike was built to a price, and the removable plate thingey is likely expensive) . . . . there's a chain in the M2's future, but mostly for ease of maintenance and peace of mind | ||
| Reepicheep |
So what are the ramifications on the rest of the bike given that there is no cush drive or similiar assembly once you go to a chain? Are you trading one set of problems for another? | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I am sure the belt does give a little but not as much as a cush drive. I assume a cush drive are the little rubber things in the hub of a bike to absorb the power of take off. I don't think going to a chain will be any more problematic than a belt would have on the system. Can anyone racing a chain driven Buell make some comments on that last post???? | ||
| Bomber |
while I don't own one, I know of a couple of folks who've converted to chain drive, and none of them have experienced any difficulty at all . . . also, I've owned a number of chain drive bikes that approach the power-to-weight ratio of my M2, and none of them had cush drives . . . . no problems on that score, either | ||
| Buellzebub |
just wondering where i can get the belt repair kit Blake? i was under the impression that they were for big twin emergency use only. last time i checked the only option was to disassemble almost the whole bike to replace the belt [yes i ride a s1] belt one 24000km snapped in two shifting from 1st to 2nd belt two 4000 km before a rock took out 7 of the 11 strands of kevlar belt three 22000km still going strong i kinda like the lower maintainance costs of the belt but the cost of replacement almost negates the advantages of the belt system, hopefully there is sufficient extra capacity in the newer design. | ||
| Mikej |
There is no belt repair kit per se, just an emergency roadside replacement belt assembly. A decent shop should stock one for a big twin, I haven't checked on availability for a Buell M2 belt. If you ask the proper race bike riders and tech people they'll tell you they change to chain-drive to allow more efficient gear ratio adjustments for different tracks and conditions. If you go look at some race-prepped XB's you'll probably see the rear swingarm has been somewhat heavily modified to allow adjustment of the rear axle position, not something the typical home mechanic is preparred to do. So simply converting to chain drive involves just a bit more than swapping pulleys for sprockets and adding a rub plate. I do not like having to raise the frame or drop the swingarm just to change a belt. But then I haven't had to change a belt yet. YMMV | ||
| Bykergeek |
>>>I do not like having to raise the frame or drop the swingarm just to change a belt.<<< On the XB swingarm, you can remove the belt w/o dropping anything. The top arm of the swingarm comes off with just a few hex socket bolts for belt replacement. Removing the belt guards is the hardest part it seems. | ||
| Skully |
Crusty, After putting 80,000 miles on a chain drive FXR, a bike without a chain secondary drive was high on my list. I promised myself I would never own another street bike with chain drive. Do you still have all of the belt covers in place? Keith | ||
| Mikej |
"On the XB swingarm..." Similar to the S2's, and some of the other "earlier" tube framers that had the little removable frame section to allow for belt removal. When I got my 2000 M2 that little plate almost swung my decision to an older used model. Fortunately I haven't had a belt failure on the M2, double-fortunately since I've ridden a number of miles on gravel roads on it. But wait, this thread is about the XB12 belt, in which case - nevermind.  | ||
| Geofg |
So, not to put us back on topic or anything, but Is it possible to fit the new belt onto an '03 XB? What would it take? -Geof |
