| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
Rocket, one thing you have to understand, this is a Buell enthusiast web page, no matter how right or wrong you are, "The Buell Faithful" will lambast you for saying anything "anti-buell". If EB told people on this site to jump off a bridge, 2/3 would. I can tell you this, I've stated it before, I was at a PDC openhouse in August of last year. I had a chance to say hello to Willy G and as I shook his hand, I asked..."Was it your styling dept. that's responsible for the "salad bowl" scoops on the 1125R???" He put his hands up and said..."no way, wasn't me!!" So you can rule out Willy as the culprit for those nasty things. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What does it matter is he wanted to keep the wheelbase the same or as close to the same as the XBs? If the wheelbase was radically different than the XB but still had sidepods, would you believe that he had the concept planned 19 years ago? If he had a traditionally mounted single radiator but had the exact same dimensions as the XB would that constitute a NEW design of frame? Is your sole contention then that Erik and crew are so smitten by the errant fuel in frame design and the incorrect wheelbase and steering angle that they gerry rigged the radiator design to be able to keep the frame and are then rewriting history, spinning half truths, and telling out and out lies to cover up their engineering shortsightedness and bad planning? I guess I am failing to understand what the nefarious end game is in your evaluation of circumstances. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I guess I am failing to understand what the nefarious end game is in your evaluation of circumstances." My guess is two things: 1) To get a factory admission that this isn't a long standng EB design 2) to get people here to admit they're fugly. | ||
| Rocketman |
Here ya go. Fixed it for ya Fats. Is your sole contention then that Erik and crew are so smitten by the errant fuel in frame design and the YES Rocket | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Dude has moxy, I gotta give him that. Rocket, you coming to Homecoming? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't really care if Erik plucked the rad buckets directly from his orifice or if he dreamt about them 19 years ago after eating too much cheese. What does it matter? If he didn't come up with them 19 years ago, why lie about it? What is the end game and purpose for lying about the origins of side mounted radiators? If they weren't ugly, would there simply be something else Erik would lie about? What happens if the S version or the fabled 1125CR has "pretty" radiators, would credibility then be restored? Is Erik lying only because they're ugly? | ||
| Rocketman |
O K R o c k e t I w i l l g o r e a l s l o w . E r i k i s t e l l i n g t h e t r u t h, t h e 1 9 y e a r o l d c o n c e p t h a s r a d i a t o r s o n s i d e . Pods Dave. Pods ugly pods. Buy the book, look at the pictures. If I have to buy it I'd be its biggest critic. Send a copy with your compliments by way of an apology, to :- Saab Workshop, Elm Terrace, Queens Road, Hull, HU5 2TQ, U.K Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket, you coming to Homecoming? To get lynched? Rocket | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Pods Dave. Pods ugly pods. So it's just about the plastic? If the pods on the 1125R were "pretty" but the radiators were 25% as effective, you'd buy one? | ||
| Crusty |
To get lynched? One can always dream... | ||
| Bads1 |
Rocket you wouldn't get lynched. We'd all have a favorite beverage and laugh about the BadWeb.lol | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I would pay good money to get Rocket and Abe in a room together for an hour. Either Buells would be designed completely differently afterward, or Rocket would be radically altered in his thinking. Then we'd just argue about how shortsighted the colonists were to break away from "Jolly 'Ole". | ||
| Rocketman |
Fat, it was only revealed to me a couple of days ago Erik had the concept in a sketch 19 years ago. What he didn't have then was a XB type chassis with its exceptional handling prowess. Nor did he have a Rotax built liquid cooled V twin engine. Nor did he know HD would own 98% of his company. Nor did he know HD would wish him well in going elsewhere to find a company to build the Helicon engine, all some 19 years later. That he was able to do all this, and marry happily all the people involved, can only ever indicate he did not know the exact dimensions of his frame he would use 19 years later, nor the size physically as well as displacement wise of his liquid cooled engine, nor its ideal V angle. Though he knew he wanted the radiators mounted on the side? WHAT THE EFFING HELL FOR? That the result of all this some 19 years later only serves to prove I was right all along. Erik Buell found a chassis that handled. Arrived at an engine configuration that would serve the purpose he intended, and he knew 19 years ago a short wheelbase would sacrifice the position of ideal radiator placement, so he put them on the side from day one. Now I understand why it took 19 years. He didn't want to round it off to 20 and still have not found a stylish way of getting those pods incorporated to the overall design. 19 years and it's still not working for many. How about that. Is this a chink in Erik's armour? Design to be different for different's sake? Rocket | ||
| Crusty |
Rocket you wouldn't get lynched. Naw; I think something on the order of tar and feathers would be more appropriate. | ||
| Metalstorm |
I just had an interesting thought. Maybe we're arguing over the wrong thing. Maybe we're asking the wrong question. Maybe the question is Did the entire XB platform come into play partly, if not entirely, to test & research a possible chassis for a possible liquid cooled bike? Kinda like I wonder if the XBRR was mainly a test & research project on aerodynamic fairing shapes (for a possible liquid cooled bike) and air cooled engine enhancements. Just a thought. | ||
| Rocketman |
Interesting thought. Do you want me to start a new thread in an effort to find out?  Rocket | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
only revealed to ME Are you the compendium of all things Buell? If so, please release ALL the sketches of the models Erik was working on 19 years ago. Why might someone want to design a bike with side mounted radiators OTHER than a short wheelbase of an existing frame and a specific engine to work around? If, as you describe, there is NO logical reason why ANYONE would want side mounted radiators on a bike, then Erik is a lying sack of crap and is revising history for his own purposes. I guess the question would be "Are there other bikes not Buells with side mounted radiators?" VTR1000F VFR800 Gold Wing RC51 Roehr Benelli TNT | ||
| Gregtonn |
Erik Buell found a chassis that handled. You act like Buell found a chassis in the dust bin. Who do you think designed the XB chassis in the first place? Buell was able to design a new world class chassis for the 1125R because they know a lot more about chassis design than you ever will. Once again, Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up things to prove him wrong. (Message edited by Gregtonn on January 18, 2008) | ||
| Xb984r |
Rocket,the person who claimed that Erik has had the 1125 on the drawing board for 19 years is also the one claimed Yamaha stole the design for the FZR deltabox frame frome the XB patent,then when confronted with the fact that the FZR was in production 3 years before the Erik filed the patent,that same person infered that Yamaha had help from a person with the initials of E.B. | ||
| Old_man |
And what difference does it make??? It is what it is! If you don't like it, no one is twisting your arm to buy it. Please, buy a bike that you really like. I know I did. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Interesting thought. Do you want me to start a new thread in an effort to find out? NO! Oh god please no! | ||
| Rocketman |
You act like Buell found a chassis in the dust bin. You nasty little pip squeak. Quit trying to pin shit on me. You f*cked up when you jumped from tech debate to troll. Get with the program or eff off. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket,the person who claimed that Erik has had the 1125 on the drawing board for 19 years is also the one claimed Yamaha stole the design for the FZR deltabox frame frome the XB patent,then when confronted with the fact that the FZR was in production 3 years before the Erik filed the patent,that same person infered that Yamaha had help from a person with the initials of E.B. I heard Court once tell a group of people Erik designed an entire Japanese cruiser bike from the ground up, including engine, but he wasn't allowed to put his name to it because of his HD commitments. I seem to remember the bike in question was the Yamaha Road Warrior. Interesting that it's the nearest Japanese engine to a Harley engine we've ever seen, and it shares the Road Warrior name with Buells first bike. Right now, I couldn't swear it was this bike, but it definitely was a Japanese Harley derivative. Court also claimed the rear seat bubble, remember the trademark bulbous offering - remotely similar to the RR1000 seat hump, on the GSXR600/750 SRAD circa 1997/8 was Buells design. I guess all this will be in the book. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on January 19, 2008) | ||
| Gregtonn |
Getting a little testy are you? Try answering a question directly. It might make you feel better. Who do you think designed the XB chassis in the first place? (A simple question for the "tech debater" in you.) Sorry mate, I'm not just going FO. You'll have to earn your way out of this. Once again, Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up things to prove him wrong. | ||
| Clutchless |
I dont even know what to say besides bad things so I will keep my mouth shut.  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Skip homecoming, there is a festival of sorts out in Montana that has a welcome matt with your name on it. The first weekend in August, in CLinton Montana. The are 25 years old steeped in tradition too. And I doubt E.B. had anything to do with it. (there are a couple of copy cat festies out there, but this is the original, I know how much you would appreciate that) | ||
| Elvis |
Based on a wealth of information that is available in the public record combined with a litte common sense, I would bet that the following is generally accurate: 1. In the late '80s, Erik began conceiving his dream bike. 2. That dream bike would have an emphasis on handling. That meant a. Low weight b. Low center of gravity c. Low unsprung weight d. Short wheelbase e. Simplified design with shared parts 3. Since Erik was a fan of Ducati and since V-Twins are lighter, simpler, more aerodynamic, allow larger lean angles, are more unique etc. than inline 4's he chose a water-cooled V-Twin as the ultimate engine. 4. He incorporated a new idea he was working on - fuel in frame - into the design of his dream bike. 5. He likely incorporated a rim-mounted brake and other Buell trade-marks such as underslung exhaust. 6. Since short wheelbase was a key part of his design, it made sense to locate the radiators on the sides. 7. He was likely excited by Harley's VR1000 race program and looked forward to the day he could use the engine in his dream bike. 8. He was very disappointed when the engine grew into the V-rod engine, and he had to settle for an air-cooled engine for the XB bikes which included most of the elements of his dream bike, but lacked the dream engine. Still, on the bright side, that allowed them to build some very light-weight unique bikes and refine some of the elements so they were really ready to hit the ground running when the dream bike finally did come to full fruition. 9. Once the XB had been introduced, the engineering team began working on what would become the 1125R. 10. Lessons learned during production and evaluation of the XB combined with advanced materials allowed engineers to make a frame for the 1125R that used all the same concepts as the XB but was improved in every key way and shared no castings or stampings with the XB. 11. As they worked, behind closed doors, Erik and the other engineers probably wanted to scream every time they read an internet blow-hard post: "Put a better motor in it" as if that wasn't something they had already thought of. It's a lot easier to type some things than it is to actually do them. 12. When it came to the minor details (styling) and the decision between full fairing and "pods", several factors probably drove the decision: a. Most other high-performance bikes had full fairings, so pods would set it apart from competition. b. Pods would be "different in every sense" and since that philosophy had helped Buell go from being a tiny manufacturer to being a small manufacturer, it was wise to stick with it. c. Pods could be used to absorb impact and move independantly of the bike as "springs" opposed to a full fairing that would absorb impact by cracking resulting in costly repair. d. Pods would be less expensive - both initially and for the customer to replace. e. In studies, some people loved, some people hated the pods. Most people liked the full-fairing. Since Buell is only selling 10,000 bikes a year, better to go with the more controversial styling and get attention. Full fairings can wait until later. f. Pods would emphasize the "function over form" philosophy that has always been a trademark with Buell. g. Pods act independently of the fairing allowing future models to vary fairing designs more easily for "S" versions etc. (Message edited by elvis on January 19, 2008) | ||
| Crusty |
Get with the program or eff off. Why don't you take your own advice, Troll? | ||
| Gregtonn |
Excellent and very articulate post Elvis. Your post and Socoken's post on January 18, 2008 - 12:18 pm: sum things up better than the other seven or eight hundred posts combined. Which include some rants of my own. Thanks, Greg | ||
| Rocketman |
Having listened to the Erik Buell interview again, he says he had a concept bike made 19 years ago that had downdraught (whatever that means?), fuel in the frame and split radiators. Since this revelation to the discussion several days ago, such would indicate the split radiators that we now see on today's 1125 were always intended to be, if we are to believe the 1125 was spawned from the 19 year old concept bike, that is. At the top of the interview Erik says everything he does he likes to do different, and redesign the 'tools'. My opinion would be, given everything Erik has said about the 1125 in the interview, the split radiators are still where they are because of a design constraint in executing his 19 year old concept into the tried tested and proven XB type chassis and the geometry inherent there of. For me, if we are to stay faithful to the XB type chassis as mentioned above, I can only conclude that the radiator, as some have mentioned, would have been far better placed under and behind the seat in some fashion or other. Staying with the 19 year old split radiator concept has hindered the style of the 1125, and that for me still makes it a design constraint. Except now, it is a 19 year old one, and one that shows the ignorance of staying faithful to a design for the sake of being different. Different in this case could have been so much better. Somewhere behind all that bulbous pod fairing combination is the basis for a really cool naked style motorcycle that retains all of the rideability and power aspects Erik speaks proudly of. Leave it with me. I'll see if I can redesign it. Hopefully, I'll get back to you before 19 years. Once I've done, maybe I'll consider giving Erik a job, as 'tea boy' Rocket |
