| Author | Message | ||
     Slaughter |
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not all after you -George Carlin | ||
| Davegess |
no sketch but perhaps a picture of a running bike. Might that be interesting? | ||
| Davegess |
There is ultimately only one thing that matters on the 1125R. Can they sell all they can make at close to MSRP? If yes than it is a success. If not then it is not. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al most be making up making up things to prove him wrong. He was asked two simple questions about the XB/1125R frame relationship on January 12th and would not answer them: "Could you please explain the relationship you would like to prove? Which measurements would you need to prove such a relationship?" It is not likely he will attempt to answer them now. What is more likely is a reply of feigned insult followed by a verbose attempt to obfuscate the topic. Greg  | ||
| Ceejay |
DaveG hits my point in regards to frame geometry. My question despite being regarded as silly was to understand why Buell decided that power was more important than handling. While that may not necessarily the case, it is fairly obvious that handling was more important than power with the XB series. In order to get more power they had to relax the XB's geometry in a sense in order to deal with the power requirements of the buying public. The added length to the wheelbase appears to mostly come from swingarm length, which is at the least understandble given that a longer swingarm will add greater sensitivity to road conditions along with help deal with the added hit of power that the rotax motor will deliver. While it may be true that motogp bikes carry thier riders on a 57" wheelbase it is also true that they are running at well over 200 HP and the frames are custom made for each rider(think pedrosa vs. hayden) Buell has to fit a bell curve, thus they take population numbers find a wieght and height that 85%(or whatever number they choose) of riders fit into and build thier bike around the mean numbers. It to me is amazing that a 150lb person thinks they need a 150 hp bike especially on the street as around here a rider runs out of road quickly. On the track I can see the benifit. Mostly I see it as interesting that Buell would be targeting a different audience(999 types) than the folks that got them there, but it shows that BMC(and perhaps HD) want a bigger market share of the motorbike buying public and are willing to take steps to make that happen-as well as fulfill a man's 20 yr. dream-cool stuff. As far as a short wheelbase bike being able to handle 130 rwhp-I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few racers who don't seem to have a problem. | ||
| Davegess |
decided that power was more important than handling. I don't know that we know this to be a fact. We do not know the decision process on the frame dimensions. Add in the fact that rake, trail, wheelbase, swingarm length, swingarm mounting point, center of gravity, percent of weight on front tire as well as not only stiffness but controlled oscillations in the entire package and a few other items that I do not even understand determine how well a bike handles means we are likely concentrating on the wrong data to understand the 1125's handling ability.} | ||
| Old_man |
"No one is blinder than he who will not see" | ||
| Rocketman |
He was asked two simple questions about the XB/1125R frame relationship on January 12th and would not answer them: "Could you please explain the relationship you would like to prove? Which measurements would you need to prove such a relationship?" Your question was answered before you even asked it. Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 08:02 pm: -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ It would be interesting to see the measurements for steering angle, distance between steering head and swing arm pivot, relationship to wheelbase, balance factor of engine placement, and a few more measurements, for the 1125 and XB. Obviously Gregg, you've not paid enough attention to the subject matter, nor your own efforts to try undermine me. Your personal comments have shown you for what you really are. I knew from day one your intentions were never to debate the technical aspects of this thread. You've just been waiting for the moment you thought you had one over me. Frankly, you're a disappointment. I really expected you might rise to your own challenge and debate the technical stuff. You're out of your depth mate Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
no sketch but perhaps a picture of a running bike. Might that be interesting? Only if it's 19 years old, otherwise it has all been a gross exaggeration. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
The added length to the wheelbase appears to mostly come from swingarm length I don't agree. Lessening the rake angle as much as they have has me wondering why they would not keep it the same as the XB's. That's not a power over handling issue. It smacks more to me about making room for the Helicon motor, and it has me believe this is why there is no radiator in front of the motor. They couldn't put the motor any further back. Nor could they kick the rake out further or make the frame longer between swing arm pivot and headstock. Result, side pods + goofy styling. In other words - DESIGN CONSTRAINT. Rocket | ||
| Igneroid |
How many words per miniute can you type Rocket?? Im betting you are faster than a nymphomaniac secretary watching a troop ship sail into the harbour....  | ||
| Davegess |
Only if it's 19 years old, Then you might be disappointed, I think the non runner is older and the runner a bit newer but I am pretty sure it will not be EXACTLY 19 years old. And for the LAST TIME there is no radiator in front because it is a crummy place for a radiator. Erik wouldn't put it there on a bet. It was not ideal on the RW750 and is even less ideal now. | ||
| Rex |
I think you just need to sit down with the designers and ask them. I don't think you would find this out at honda, kawasaki, or yamaha either. From listening to Abe at the Homecoming, it sounded like they took the new bike and engineered each and every part for the new bike. He talked about hp, torque, etc. and how you engineer a bike to fit the particular requirements, so that you do not wheelie all of the time, etc. trying to keep as much power to the ground as possible, stopping, starting, turning, etc. I am sure as anyone would, you always start with what you have as a reference point. I am sure countless hours were spent looking at what the geometry of the frame would need to be, where to put the motor, how long the wheelbase, where the center of gravity would be, forks, shocks, motor mounts, etc. This we will never know unless you tear down both bikes and measure them. At this point it is just fun talking on the website. I personally am glad they went to the side radiators vrs. in front of the motor. It makes the buell a little different than the rest of the sportbikes. Again, most is pure preference for the looks, buells design of the bike, and our discussions. I understand where you are coming from in asking the question, but I do not think we can answer it ourselves. Most of us are taking for granted what we hear or have heard about the bike. just my thoughts.  | ||
| Gregtonn |
Sean, I often skip your nattering (there is soooo much of it). It would be interesting to see the measurements for 1.steering angle, 2.distance between steering head and swing arm pivot, 3.relationship to wheelbase, 4.balance factor of engine placement, and a few more measurements, for the 1125 and XB. Obviously you have not paid enough attention to information which is readily available, if you make the effort to look: 1.Different 2.Different 3.Different 4.Different Out of my depth? No doubt. It gets quite boring here in the wading pool. Greg  | ||
| Rocketman |
Obviously you have not paid enough attention to information which is readily available, if you make the effort to look: 1.Different 2.Different 3.Different 4.Different  That's the official word? Greg, you're done. No need to clutch at straws. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Then you might be disappointed, I think the non runner is older and the runner a bit newer but I am pretty sure it will not be EXACTLY 19 years old. Since when were those two bikes considered the inspiration for the 1125? That really is stretching the dream a little bit further than 19 years. In fact I'd have problems making any association with those bikes to todays 19 year wait. You gotta be kidding me. Rocket | ||
| Gregtonn |
Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up making up things to prove him wrong. | ||
| Davegess |
Oh Rocket you are too much! | ||
| Gregtonn |
This whole radiator pod placement thing got me thinking. When God created woman he could have put her mammary glands in the more the traditional location, down between the hind legs, like he did with cows, goats and horses. I'm sure glad he didn't.  | ||
| Hexangler |
Great Greg, Give Rocket more ammunition, now he'll say, 'Look, the new Buell's got teets.' Hex | ||
| Metalstorm |
She's got the most beautiful rack I've ever seen. Regardless of who's right, who's wrong, who's grasping and who's delirious! I think it was Zac4Mac who said it best, She's a well endowed gal in a tight fitting sweater  | ||
| Rocketman |
Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up making up things to prove him wrong. No need to repeat yourself. You've made your mission in this thread clear. Why not instead provide the figures for 1 through to 4 rather than just say the figures are different, yet readily available if I care to look? That you don't, is that not an indication of your own arrogance, ignorance and ego? Rocket | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Could somebody please sum up the argument? | ||
| Rocketman |
Oh Rocket you are too much! You're very quick to point out when it's only your opinion you speak. But when you post what you claim to be facts relating to Buell you always turn it into a mystery. If you've got pic's of a concept bike Erik mentioned on the radio interview, which he'd sketched 19 years ago, and is the basis for his 1125 design, why not give us the details if you're at liberty to reveal they exist? I'm not even asking for a picture. Just your word it has heat exchangers mounted on the side in pods. What's the big deal in shrouding a 19 year old sketch in mystery? Fess up, or be done with you and your finger pointing. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Could somebody please sum up the argument? No problemo. I believe the 1125 has side mounted heat exchangers placed in controversially styled 'pods' because Buell wanted to adhere to the XB chassis geometry as close as possible. Thus placing the new Helicon engine with its liquid cooled ancillaries within an XB type frame was not possible placing the radiator in the more conventional front of engine position. Most all of the Buell clique have spent the last month trying to ridicule my thinking. I imagine it's because I see it as a design constraint that hinders the overall styling of the 1125, which upsets their sensibilities. Their defense is, the 1125 pods were always meant to be, and they are a revolutionary design offering several benefits no other motorcycle company has grasped. As a side note, Erik revealed just a couple of days ago he had the 1125 bike sketched out some 19 years ago. But then he said the 1125 was a four year old design too, so it's all a little hard to follow what exactly Buell are claiming and why. But that's always been the case. It gets even harder to fathom when, Buell has close friends and business associates making claims based on their opinions. Worse still, sometimes based on facts, but they're never willing to provide any proof. If Erik did indeed have a sketched concept of a motorcycle wearing side mounted pods to house heat exchangers for a liquid cooled engine, some 19 years ago, I'd have to wonder how he knew 19 years ago that motor would be a liquid cooled V twin  Rocket | ||
| Metalstorm |
I think I might be able to sum up the argument. Though I'm thinking the argument started as a question disguised as an assault I think the actual question is not about the looks in and of itself. I think the question is whether things were placed the way they were by need in order to keep the chassis close to that of the XB chassis which has proven itself to be a most excellent handling chassis?.. or.. was it designed this way from the get go? Is this bike the same (or very close to) in concept as it was years ago when it was a dream bike? Long before the introduction of the XB? After I put my analogical, aquarius brain to work and removed emotion from the equation, this is what became apparent to me. Rocket will correct me if I have misunderstood. Luckily for me, whatever the answer is doesn't have any effect on me. I like it as it is. If this is the way the bike was meant to be I say Cool Beans! If compromises were made to achieve certain goals I say how wonderful that these compromises turned out to create such a clever and remarkably fun bike  | ||
| Metalstorm |
Damn you Rocket! You type too fast! And I type wayyyyyy too slow (Message edited by metalstorm on January 18, 2008) | ||
| Gregtonn |
Could somebody please sum up the argument? Easily, Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up things to prove him wrong. | ||
| Ducxl |
No problemo. yeah,but you've stated it over 700 times.I think everyone gets it.Please,as a fellow naysayer you're embarrassing me.But i think this statement may need repeating another 700 times>>>> Sean's arrogance, ignorance and ego have trapped him in an untenable position. He now takes the ridiculous position that Erik Buell et al must be making up things to prove him wrong. Sorry Rocket,you really need to stop repeating the same issue | ||
| Davegess |
O K R o c k e t I w i l l g o r e a l s l o w . E r i k i s t e l l i n g t h e t r u t h, t h e 1 9 y e a r o l d c o n c e p t h a s r a d i a t o r s o n s i d e . Buy the book, look at the pictures. |
