| Author | Message | ||
     Molly_hatchet |
62 degrees...that guy can bite me...maybe u can take over coke bottle duty for a while...39 and pouring down rain...god i hate washington sometimes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The "ass over applecart" velocity will be directly proportional to the length of the wheelbase (all other things equal). So a 2" increase in wheelbase translates to an X% increase in maximum acceleration. The XB12 got publicly spanked in at least one review for slower 0-60 times that the magazine (correctly) identified as being a result of limitations of the short wheelbase. On a 100hp motor, those limitations might be minor. On a 130hp motor, those same limitations would be more... limiting. I love the short wheelbase on my 9sx... it plays to the other strengths of a middleweight sporting twin. I would want a longer wheelbase on a superbike like the 1125r. Almost like each bike was designed to work as a whole  | ||
| Jackbequick |
Re: Ablative Casting Ablative casting is a recent or fairly recent development. It is mentioned in the document at this link: http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/Research/MPI/News/200 6/summerschool.html It appears that it is an adjunct of or related to sand casting in and that it brings some new and better qualities to the resulting castings. I noted this with interest: "Mr. Weiss finished with a viewing of "Ablation Casting", a unique and proprietary process being developed and fine-tuned at Eck together with its originator. The process provides extraordinary solidification rates and exceptionally high mechanical properties and also seems suitable for casting hot-short alloys such as the high-strength compositions usually reserved for wrought applications." I've found Mr. Ecks email address and have asked him if the video mentioned above is available online. I'll follow up with a link if I can find it. I think it is clear that the 1125R frame was outsourced and that was probably done to get a frame that had the qualities that BMC wanted. I see no insult or deception in BMC having outsourced the frame to get a good one. Jack | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't buy the short wheelbase looping launch thing as a real design concern over great handling. We motorcyclists imagine we spend a great deal more time at the traffic light GP than we really do. Reality is we spend infinitely more time riding the wheelbase rather than accelerating it from a standing start. I would conclude several factors were taken into account when softening the rake and extending the wheelbase on the 1125. Looping power starts would not be high on my priority list. Shoehorning the motor into a chassis with close to, if not identical, datum points as the XB to achieve the XB's handling prowess would be a major consideration to me. Not allowing the liquid cooling to have too much affect on wheelbase would also be a major concern for me. THAT IS WHY I HAVE ARGUED THIS POINT FOR SO LONG. It's sad that it's taken some so long to catch up with my theory, whether they agree with it or not. At least the questions asked now has allowed a courteous, all be it somewhat short response. No doubt the rebuttal will be, "he still doesn't get it". However, nothing yet has changed my mind. The 1125 draws on the XB chassis geometry for its handling. The alterations are primarily to get the Helicon motor and its associated components into an XB configuration as near as possible. That's what I've said from day one. That's it in a nutshell. And I'm sticking to it until someone has the ability and decency to stump up the facts, either supporting my thinking or not. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, I really don't see how anyone can interpret such from Slaughter's post. Please, instead of telling me I can't read correctly, break it down for me. That is what I did this morning in explanation of my interpretation. The only one that I could read incidentally. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
I see no insult or deception in BMC having outsourced the frame to get a good one. Nor do I. That was never my point, just in case you were wondering. Rocket | ||
| Ducxl |
Shoehorning the motor into a chassis with close to, if not identical, datum points as the XB to achieve the XB's handling prowess would be a major consideration to me. Not allowing the liquid cooling to have too much affect on wheelbase would also be a major concern for me. THAT IS WHY I HAVE ARGUED THIS POINT FOR SO LONG. I agree with that,and feel it's a great thing too. The 1125 draws on the XB chassis geometry for its handling. The alterations are primarily to get the Helicon motor and its associated components into an XB configuration as near as possible. Very cool they were able to do that.If in fact it's what they were trying to do.My XB handles way better than my X1 I'll add: What's really cool is that we can have an XB based (so to speak) bike with gobs more power than the air cooled engine (Message edited by ducxl on January 14, 2008) | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
just a question...but would they have to dumb the thing down a little just so some doofass wont crack the throttle and loop the bike then sue...is that a consideration when having to make a mass produced motorcycle. | ||
| Rocketman |
What's really cool is that we can have an XB based (so to speak) bike with gobs more power than the air cooled engine Though the design constraints of such a bike brought about the styling that we see on the 1125, is what I've said all along. Full circle, then. Rocket | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Can somebody please give this guy his own thread area please? Call it the Buell Bitch and Moan thread or something? Jeez, I thought I was hard on the boys from East Troy | ||
| Reepicheep |
Having ridden the 1125R on a track, immediately before and after riding my 9sx, I can tell you for a fact that they did not compromise the handling on the 1125 platform. Quite the opposite in fact... I was lapping faster after my first 2000 feet on an 1125R then I had after 20,000 miles on an XB9SX, and it wasn't because of the motor. The frame on my 9sx seems to be perfectly suited to the motor and mission of the bike. The 1125R has a different motor and a different mission, and the "longer" wheelbase (which is probably still shorter then any bike like it) seems perfectly appropriate. | ||
| Rocketman |
I can tell you for a fact that they did not compromise the handling on the 1125 platform................ and the "longer" wheelbase (which is probably still shorter then any bike like it) seems perfectly appropriate. Where did I ever say the handling is compromised, or the wheelbase inappropriate? It's the styling that's compromised because of the liquid cooled engine in such short wheelbase, despite adding on 2 1/2 inches. THAT'S IS WHAT I'VE SAID ALL ALONG AND ONLY THAT. Rocket | ||
| Old_man |
Then there is no argument, We can all accept that Rocket does not care for the style of the new Buell. That is his opinion and he has every right to it. Rocket, just accept that others are free to disagree with your opinion. As the saying goes "We'll agree to disagree" There is no need for anyone to take personal offence, it's only opinion, nothing factual to prove or disprove. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket, just accept that others are free to disagree with your opinion. I've done so all along. There is no need for anyone to take personal offence, it's only opinion, nothing factual to prove or disprove. Agreed, except the purpose of the debate was to find out whether the styling of the 1125 was a result of what I claimed. I'd like the 'facts' as far as reasonably possible, to show that my motorcycling brain is fairly smart, rather than me be outed as a total f*cking idiot for 4 weeks. Rocket | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't think you have demonstrated any kind of causal relationship along those lines. There are lots of reasons why the side mounted radiators and scoop configuration work better then a front mounted radiator (and a few ways they work worse). The fact that it simplifies implementation of an appropriate wheelbase for a given planned performance envelope is just one of many factors that have to be considered in the overall design balancing decisions. When I want to understand something, which is most of the time, I go out of my way not to offend the people with the information. I try and understand it on their terms and in their domain and from their perspective. I check my ego at the door. I've never learned well when I am trying to look smart. The older I get, the more I am convinced that I have yet to meet another human being that does not know something profound that I need to understand. | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't think you have demonstrated any kind of causal relationship along those lines. There are lots of reasons why the side mounted radiators and scoop configuration work better then a front mounted radiator (and a few ways they work worse). The fact that it simplifies implementation of an appropriate wheelbase for a given planned performance envelope is just one of many factors that have to be considered in the overall design balancing decisions. I wouldn't for a moment disagree with that. My problem is, and has been from day one, how come they managed to do so in such a controversially styled fashion? Isn't that the only relevant question here that keeps going unanswered? When I want to understand something, which is most of the time, I go out of my way not to offend the people with the information. I try and understand it on their terms and in their domain and from their perspective. Really Bill. Are you implying I don't? Sounds like once again I'm been judged and character assassinated. Perhaps if you care to read the threads again in their entirety, then apply your own rules of learning, you might see that I too have tried that route on BadWeB. Of course, I have tried less favourable tactics too. But the Internet would be about as exciting as watching paint dry if it were to function as no more than a library where even whispering is frowned upon. So please, let's not anyone be in denial here. We all know what makes Internet forums exciting. And it isn't talking about the valve settings on a pre war motorcycle year in year out, or the best bait to catch a Rainbow Trout, over and over again, or whatever. I check my ego at the door. I've never learned well when I am trying to look smart. The older I get, the more I am convinced that I have yet to meet another human being that does not know something profound that I need to understand. How very sanctimonious of you Bill. Thanks for the words of wisdom. Might I suggest where my own ego is concerned, it might not seem so big to others if I wasn't forced to rely upon it in an effort to have any credibility bestowed upon me when posting often on BadWeB. Seems most of the wise elders around here have a habit of judging a persons personality because of unfavourable comments someone may have made about a motorcycle. That's something profound many around here could do with understanding. But hey, that's just my opinion, which seems to count for very little at the moment. Rocket | ||
| Ducxl |
I wouldn't for a moment disagree with that. My problem is, and has been from day one, how come they managed to do so in such a controversially styled fashion? Isn't that the only relevant question here that keeps going unanswered? IF, you had an audience with Erik Buell,just what is it you'd like him to concede to you? That he designed a piece of crap? Do you really think someone who designed a motorcycle and put it into production would feel they designed a piece of crap? What did i miss with this post Rocket? Might I suggest where my own ego is concerned, it might not seem so big to others if I wasn't forced to rely upon it in an effort to have any credibility bestowed upon me when posting often on BadWeB. I don't think your ego is the problem.But i'm still perplexed as to just what you expect anyone to concede. | ||
| Freezerburn |
Rocket Your opinions and insights are probably valued more than you think. However, how you share your opinions and insights does often come across in inflammatory tones and a certain degree of self proclaimed omniscience. I do believe you have made many contributions to this sight. I do also think you have undermined some of the respect you have earned. It may not seem fair that you are being targeted, but you have put on the shirt with the bulls eye on it. It all comes across as a bit of a smear campaign, no matter how you intend it. One could not expect that to fair too well here. Freezer | ||
| Slaughter |
Paraphrasing Ralph Waldo Emerson:
(Message edited by slaughter on January 15, 2008) | ||
| Rocketman |
IF, you had an audience with Erik Buell? Yeah, we had some issues overcoming the placement of the Helicon motor in an XB type frame. We had to retain the handling prowess of the XB with the 1125 motorcycle. That was one of the crucial design aspects of the project. We did similar with the Ulysses when making it taller. It was still necessary to retain the accolades we'd gained from the XB. I instructed my designers to stick as close as possible to the XB geometry, but they were allowed adjustments providing we didn't upset the handling too much. The liquid cooled Helicon motor forced us to kick out the rake a little, and we extended the wheelbase by 2 1/2 inches, but we got the balance right and kept the cg down low as we were able to hang the motor with perfect placement due to a complete new frame design. We engaged the services of a US manufacturer for our frame, and they were able to offer us a manufacturing process not used previously on a cast aluminium motorcycle frame. In turn this new to us process gave the frame added rigidity and strength, beyond that of the XB's and Ulysses, and we managed to shave some weight in the process too. Win win. There's a whole bunch of question we at Buell could answer. We get a huge response from customer feedback, usually from places like Badweatherbikers.com . There's this one guy who posts there from England. He's built this amazing V8 motorcycle, which is a credit to him and a great representation of what typical Buell owners and fans are like. They're a pretty hands on sort of people, and boy do they ask some technical questions of us. But you know what. This is Buell, and we do things a little differently around here. So yes, we're happy to answer our fans anytime. Just don't ask about those f*cking ugly side pods. They were Mike Samarjza's idea. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Pretty good Freeze. I won't argue with that under the present circumstances. Rocket | ||
| Ducxl |
Can you please put that post in context? Who authored it? And where? C'mon Rocket..........NAME DROP!!  Gotta go wrench the Du-CAT-EEE for a couple hours (Message edited by ducxl on January 15, 2008) | ||
| Smokescreen |
That has to be one of the funniest posts I've ever seen Rocket! Go Rocket!  Smokescreen | ||
| Freezerburn |
Yep, made me laugh. Nice touch. | ||
| Rocketman |
It was a hell of a task writing it with an American accent!!!! Glad you liked it. It's only meant as fun, and not to offend. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
You do know it's all true though, don't ya...............  Rocket | ||
| Ducxl |
So yes, we're happy to answer our fans anytime. Just don't ask about those f*cking ugly side pods. They were Mike Samarjza's idea. DOH! I missed the end,and i guess i didn't read it carefully enough. As far as the so called "pods",they look fine to me,after seeing them in person.But if i thought they WERE goofy,well,i view my motorcycles as machinery..or as tools for moving me FIRST,and couldn't give two .. S H I T S .. HOW they look. Peace Rocket,wait till i can post my supertuned 996..Now there's a machine! | ||
| Rocketman |
wait till i can post my supertuned 996..Now there's a machine! Do you imagine there's any other reason I was sticking around  Rocket | ||
| Court |
Hey . . . if ya'll are still dukin' it out . . I got something in the mail today that may help . . . .  What says we send a bunch of badwebbers to M.I.T. for Internal Combustion Engine schoolin' . . . .there are also classes on Aerodynamics, F.E.A. (guess who's book they'll likely use?) and Modeling and Analysis . . as long as we are gonna argue . . .what the hell. Boston has great BBQ | ||
| Crusty |
Boston has great BBQ Next time you come up here, we'll take you to Redbones. It's as unique as the Dinosaur. |
