| Author | Message | ||
     Wolfridgerider |
Normally.. the MORE muscle mass the WORST the "ride." YES!! I'm good to go!! TAZ ME! I double dog dare ya! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Yes Sir Officer. No Sir Officer. I have been pulled over MANY times. your first line of defense is to be pleasant, respectful and polite to the officer. Your next move is to take your HELMET off. Do not argue with the officer, that is what court is for. Just make sure you dont get pulled over by the same LEO for the same infraction in the same location twice. D-A-M-H-I-K And y'all wonder why I spend most of my time riding OFF pavement. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Nah, I don't think he has a case. He wasn't following instructions. I do wonder about having to sign a speeding ticket. I don't believe in the State of Maryland one has to sign. | ||
| Bill0351 |
Me.... bucket of poop! | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'm an ex-cop, been through the police academy here in Wisconsin and the whole ball of wax. I was not, however, a patrol guy. But here's my take. 1) Upon being stopped, you must listen to commands by the officer. Whether he's right or wrong, that can and will be determined later. 2) We were taught to use force only when needed and then one step ahead of that being used by the suspect. Example: Guy walks away or won't listen to commands..arm lock or pain compliance (bending of arm or wrists into a lock) hold until submission is gained. Guy raises a fist, officer uses baton or taser. 3) In this situation, the officer never attmepted physical complaince, why? I'd bet my life it was because the suspect refused to listen nor did he remove his hand from his pocket (which is considered a threat). ZAP after 2-3x of asking him be compliant. I don't think this guys has any grounds for complaint. It was his fault all the way around. Its the officer's job to take control of the situation. Wisconsin doesn't ask you to sign anything after getting a ticket, the cop has a copy and you get one. Why would anybody need to sign anything? Especially when they have a vidwo camera onboard the squad. | ||
| Djkaplan |
A cop friend of mine told me to take the keys out, throw them on the dash, turn the dome light on if it's at night, put your hands on the steering wheel, and wait for the cop to approach the car anytime one pulls you over. If I'm on the bike, the helmet comes off and my hands stay pointed straight down at my sides while I stay seated. I never say 'yes sir' or 'no sir' because I'm usually a lot older than the cop (now) and it makes me sound too guilty (which I normally am). I have about an 80% success rate of being let go with a verbal warning using this procedure. No attitude and a healthy respect for the position counts for a lot. I did have to learn a lot of this the hard way, though... | ||
| Rainman |
I don't know. I saw the video and there were absolutely no signs of threat, no visible agitation. The guy just refused to sign. It appeared to me that the officer had simply decided that he was going to taze the guy for being difficult, put down his clipboard turned and tazed the man without any provocation. The wife's response is normal. The office is wrong as hell here. Tazing is a step taken toward deadly force when there is active resistance to arrest (see the "don't taze me bro," tape. That guy had it coming.) In this case, I think the cop should get his mass sued off and I hope the guy wins. Even the other cop seemed doubtful. My dad was a cop for 26 years and my brother one for 25 and they made several arrests without this kind of crap. Stupid driver, yes. But this is uncalled for use of force and the cop should be kicked off the force. Phew! I feel better. I'm going to get a couple valium now, wipe the foam from my lips and try to relax. | ||
| Bads1 |
As far as I'm concerned if it was me. My attorney would have a field day with that officer. He was wrong. He did not tell the guy how fast he was going when asked or otherwise. The officer was quick to pull out the Tazer. The gentlemen was quite polite in asking what he had done. After the officer tazed him,the officer approached the truck on the passenger side and opened the door to greet the women. Hell she could of blew him away. He was not following procedure there. Sorry I would eat him for supper in court. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Dana, you're a smart dude, you would've just signed the damn thing and went on your way. Police here in Wisconsin aren't bound to have to inform you, verbally, how fast you were driving or for that matter, show you the radar. The posted speed and your speed are on the ticket. All he needs to say is that you were speeding and that's the reason he pulled you over. believe it or not, stops aren't meant to be a slow process. Police understand that there's nothing to gain arguing speeds, procedure or why people were pulled over, while standing on the side of the highway. Arguing your speed isn't going to change the cops's mind, just do what your told, be on your way and argue about it with the judge come hearing time. If somebody feels they've been delt with unfairly, contact the cops boss. | ||
| Bads1 |
Your right I would have signed and then handed to my attorney to get it dropped if I thought I was right. But the way that officer tazed that guy when clearly he was dealing with a hardened criminal was wrong. Did you see how he approached the women twice without regard to what she could have in her hands. He was not thinking to clearly. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I thought the same thing when I saw it, I'd have been screaming at her to eat dirt. Who's to say she didn't get out with a shotgun? | ||
| Mm128 |
Rainman, Sorry your Wrong.... The Taser is a step of LESS LETHAL force NOT deadly Force. Its use on the Force Continuem is at the VERY bottom just above OFFICER PRESENCE then VERBAL COMMANDS. Ok..... HERE IT IS.. First off the individual (DRIVER) does NOT get out of a vehicle UNLESS TOLD to do so. That is the FIRST mistake. Having your hands in your pocket IS NOT what to do and WILL cause the officer to elevate both in awareness and aggression through what should FIRST be VERBAL COMMANDS. Him NOT signing a ticket HERE (GEORGIA) would constitute OBSTRUCTION and would be grounds for arrest. Therefor making any and ALL force that MATCHES the resistance of the subject warranted and LEGAL. The wife getting out of the car COULD have caused her to get SHOT !! She WOULD be viewed as a THREAT. She is on the officers WEAK side and is NOT fully visible. Just because she is a women DOES NOT mean that she does not have a gun (weapon) and wont kill him. She should have kept her mouth SHUT and her ASS in the vehicle. Its funny..... People complain about POLICE but had the guy signed the damn ticket NOTHING else would have happened. He wanted to show his ass and had EVERY intention of doing so or he WOULD NOT have acted the way he did. He and his Wife (women) should count their blessings that the stop and actions of the officer were as RESTRAINED as the were. He (OFFICER) used the appropriate amount of force necessary to EFFECT either COMPLIANCE or the ARREST. -Matt. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
That officer did not appear in control of the situation at all. The way the guy came up behind him while he was talking to the guys wife was terrible. The officer LEFT THE GUY on the ground right next to the road. He could've rolled out in the road, gotten hit, and they'd have a DAMN GOOD case against that cop. In the end though, I probably would've tased the guy a second time for not getting in the back of the damn cop car. You don't follow the rules, you get punished. Seems pretty simple to me. | ||
| Bads1 |
M128 ARE YOU A COP???? God I hope not. | ||
| M1combat |
So... The officer was in front of the speeder. The officer states that the speeder passed a 40MPH sign a mile ago (I'd assume the officer passed the same sign based on the beginning of the video). I think the officer was speeding as well. The officer let the speeder around and then pulled him over. I think this is the only thing the officer did that was wrong (aside from when he walked up to the passenger door and then decided to search the vehicle but maybe there's a law I don't know about). The speeder wouldn't let the officer complete a sentence (or very few). The speeder told the officer how the next few minutes would progress. The officer told the guy to put his hands behind his back. He didn't. The officer told the guy to put his hands behind his back. He didn't. Taze away officer. Makes a great video  . I do believe that the state/city/agency should be responsible for any losses due to an arrest that is later proven to be in error. That said... I don't think this is a case of that . Dude should have signed the ticket. There's no point what so ever in arguing with a guy that probably has too much testosterone and weapons. I used to work in a County jail. I've watched people get tased for much less. It's pretty well always about non-compliance and to date I've never watched an officer make a completely unreasonable request. Almost always makes me laugh. Don't get me wrong... I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the laws that the police enforce. When I get pulled over I shut off the bike, remove my helmet, put the kickstand down, place the helmet on the tank, place my hands on the helmet, wait for the officer to approach me. If he says "Do you know why I stopped you?" I answer to the best of my ability. If he doesn't say anything fairly quickly I ask him how life is treating him. If he says something positive I say "Excellent... I'm having a pretty good day myself." If he says something negative I say "So it's giving you the treatment then eh? Such is life I guess." They'll then typically see if I know why we're sitting on the side of the road. To date I've been able to answer that question correctly 100% of the time. I almost always get let go with a warning. 115 in a 65 - Let go. 70 in a 45 - Let go. Crossing the double yellow to get around a slow moving vehicle on a long straight - bought that one but I was also doing 140 and he knew it. Improper lane change (switched lanes in heavy traffic WAY too quickly - Like I just about scraped both pegs) - let go Improper lane usage (a wide single lane and I passed the car in front of me at full throttle (I was in a hurry...)) - let go Many more for speeding - Let go. Once for drifting my truck around the outside of a Porsche 911 taking a left at a light - Let go. Once for driving like I was DUI but wasn't - full sobriety check and let go (didn't have reg, license had been suspended (didn't know), no proof of ins (had ins though). I hope if I ever get tased for being a jackass I'll be fortunate enough that I can show my video to my friends... | ||
| M1combat |
"First off the individual (DRIVER) does NOT get out of a vehicle UNLESS TOLD to do so. That is the FIRST mistake. " Watch it again. The officer told him to get out. | ||
| Bads1 |
Thank You Don | ||
| Mm128 |
BadS1, Yes I am ... Was a Road Officer for 4 yrs now in Investigations. I think maybe I am NOT explaining myself correctly... Each State is Different... I am NOT an expert on that officers State Laws. HERE in Georgia. A vehicle is signaled with Lights and Siren to pull over. Vehicle Pulls over. Officer has alread called in the information (Location of the stop, Tag of vehicle, vehicle description, occupancy of the vehicle and SOMETIMES the reason for the stop.) Officer sizes up the scene and exits patrol car. Officer defensively/offensively approaches the vehicle scanning for threats. Officer ask the driver for License and Proof of Insurance. Explain the reason for the Stop AFTER the above is in your possession. The indivual SHOULD be told to stay in the vehicle and that you (Officer) will be back with them shortly. Officer tactically retreats to BEHIND the patrol car to wait for information given to Dispatch. Officer recieves info and either IS writing the ticket or giving a verbal warning. NOW.... His situation IS DIFFERENT. The driver is NOT complying. The driver does NOT sign for the ticket The driver exits the vehicle The passenger exits the vehicle **There are SEVERAL issues with THIS officers stop. First YOU NEVER let them OUT of the vehicle. Once One person is out of the vehicle it is IMPOSSIBLE to control the scene/stop. ********** BADS1.... If your saying your hoping I am not a cop because you think I am wrong... Well.. sorry... I am NOT wrong. In the state of Georgia: If you refuse to sign a ticket your going to jail. If you refuse to put your hands behind your back, FORCE WILL be applied. How else is an officer suppose to arrest someone??? Touching IS FORCE.. Does NOT matter the LEVEL of touching. A traffic stop IS TECHNICALLY AN ARREST. The individuals FREEDOM of movement IS RESTRICTED. So according to OUR Cities Policy and State Law. Officer makes his presence (ie person, car with lights and sirens). Officer gives verbal commands. **IF YOU DONT comply with verbal commands then SOFT Hands - Less Lethal Force can be used to GAIN compliance** As the SUBJECTS resistance INCREASES.. the Officer is JUSTIFIED and Protected in staying ONE STEP above the subject. Hence.. When he does not comply to verbal commands he gets the TASER. The taser is FAR more effective that using hands and take downs. Its less violent and NORMALLY less harmfull to the subject. In Georgia IF the passenger gets out of the vehicle and IS told to get back in, they BETTER do it quickly or FORCE can be used on them as well. ITS CALLED INTERFERENCE WITH AN OFFICER. BADS1... if you dont understand or your from a different part of the country and laws are different let me know... I will do my best to help explain... Did the officer do wrong... YES.. His approach was COMPLETELY unsafe... It appeared that he had an attitude.. but there is NO way to really tell that. All that is for sure is that the WHOLE scene could have VERY EASILY been avoided if the driver would have taken the ticket and drove off. -Matt. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Here's another tazer story for you http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07254/816402-153.st m Here's the run down. Shawn Hicks comes home and falls asleep on his couch. He doesn't realize that he activated the silent alarm on the house security system. Cops arrive enter the home, see him on the couch, and taze him. According to the police they tried to verbally rouse him but couldn't so they tazed him. He wakes up, of course, tells them it's his house. They say "How do we know that you're who you say you are?" and taze him again. He shows them ID. They taze him again. No, I didn't type that wrong they tazed him a 3rd time after he should them ID that verified who he was and where he lived. They then arrest Shawn and search the house. As they are leaving the man's mother and son arrive home and ask the police why they are arresting her son. They say they don't have to tell her anything. They arrested the him for being "belligerent" held him over night and then released him. I'd be pretty belligerent too if I'd been awakened in my own home by being tazed repeatedly. (Message edited by not_purple_s2 on November 29, 2007) | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
On a personal note I was one dragged, yes dragged, from the back of a car by a cop while half-asleep. I was riding in the back catching some Z's when my friend gets pulled over. I start to wake up and put my hand under me to sit-up. The cop freaks out yells to the other officer, standing on the passenger side, that i'm going for a weapon and they open the door drag me out and have my face in the pavement before I know what the hell is going on. After thoroughly searching us and the vehicle they finally let us go with a warning. I think they felt sorry for us we were three scared little white boys right then. At least in our case the police quickly realized that we were not a threat and that they were over-reacting. (Message edited by not_purple_s2 on November 29, 2007) | ||
| Mm128 |
Not Purple, THEY ARE DUMB ASSES !!!!!!! Should be fired, sued and then sued again. That IS what gives good cops a VERY bad name. ***** SAME SITUATION HERE in GA. Non responsive... I would call EMS... NOT sure if he is passed out or not... Providing SEVERAL officers are on scene and in the room check for weapons... No need to restrain as long as the area seems safe. Try to wake him.. (NO TASER) maybe a sternum rub... Get his info, verify with dispatch through utilities and tax assessors office and EVEN the neighbors if need be. All good.. Tell him the reason for responding and hope he has a good night. Matt. | ||
| Iamike |
I have never figured out why people think that they should argue with someone who can legally shoot them? It all boils down to our lack of respect for authority. Of course juries can't even convict murderers anymore so that kid could probably walk (especially if it were California). | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Oj was innocent..the glove didn't fit. | ||
| Rah7777777 |
I say more power to the cop! If your an idiot then I say you get zapped! you do not want the cop in fear of getting attacked, I think as long as the cop is an honest cop, then there should be no question about his actions especially on dash video. Personally I think the judicial system needs to be tougher! And personally i think the death sentence is becoming a pile of poop! I say we go back to the old days, and once convicted they go out back and take care of them right then and there! just my 2 cents! | ||
| Josh_ |
>the glove didn't fit. My tight leather gloves don't fit after they get wet and sit for 6 months either. The prosecutor was an idiot for that stunt. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"My tight leather gloves don't fit after they get wet and sit for 6 months either." Same thing happens with my chaps and leather thong. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
He asked him to get out of the vehicle in order to have him place his hands behind his back, be cuffed, be frisked, and be stuffed. He did not follow the instructions of the officer. When he was asked to place his hands behind his back, he refused to do so. He also failed to remove his hands from his pockets. He started to walk back to the vehicle (possibly to retrieve a weapon, possibly to draw the officer into the line of fire of his wife still in the car). THEN he GOT UP and was digging in his pockets again. The driver is in the wrong. Completely. Had the individual come out of pocket with something that LOOKED like a weapon (phone, wallet, cigarette case), the officer could have shot him and found innocent of wrong doing. Luckily the officer had an option in the middle, the taser. In the end, you have a wife who was upset, a child who was upset, and an individual who is a little sore, embarrassed, and upset. The driver should be glad that the taser was the option available and used. 20-30 years ago, the driver would probably be dead. There are a few officers who are in the wrong by using excessive force. This officer is NOT one of them. The officer acted professionally. He was forceful, but you could tell it wasn't "personal" when he was talking with the other officer. Had the driver complied, the officer could have (and probably would have) explained why he needed to sign the ticket, why he was cuffed, what would happen if he continued to refuse to sign the ticket, and what his speed was. He would also probably have let the guy go. The driver simply needed an attitude "adjustment". Doing the paperwork on the arrest would have been more trouble than it would have been worth. You get pats on the back for stopping robberies, catching drug dealers, and protecting citizens. You don't get too many "ata boys" by pulling dad out of the car and hauling him off. | ||
| Iamike |
My buddy, a state trooper, said the video cams were the best thing for them. As long as they follow procedure most defense attorneys don't even fight a charge if there is video. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
20-30 years ago, the driver would probably be dead 20-30 years ago the driver would have done everything the officer asked.... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Wolf, You are correct. "I'm smarter than dumb cop" will not get you anywhere. |
